8th Ed BA Tactica.

[Remtek]

I'm really liking putting 5 devs with 4x heavy flamers in transports. With cherub thats 5d6 str5 ap1 hits. Since you can disembark and move your at a 17" threat range. 

[Jolemai]

I'm really liking putting 5 devs with 4x heavy flamers in transports. With cherub thats 5d6 str5 ap1 hits. Since you can disembark and move your at a 17" threat range. 

 

?

 

Don't you get 3" and that's it?

[Aothaine]

Summed up both the HFrazors and infernobaals are great :-D

 

 

Totally agree here. They are both really good. I still think that "Infernobaals" are better at what they are designed to do. Run up. Unleash hell and laugh as your opponent struggles to determine if they want to take 2d6 HF auto hits and 1d6 FC auto hits on the charge. 

 

They are anvils. You line them up on one side and drop in your melee killy stuff on the other side and squeeze.

 

Working on a list now that includes scouts with boltguns that deploy in rapid fire range. Infernobaals back them up, also deployed forward. Then the hammer drops/teleports/etc in behind the enemy. 

 

It is looking quite solid. So far.

[durdle-durdle]

 

 

I'm really liking putting 5 devs with 4x heavy flamers in transports. With cherub thats 5d6 str5 ap1 hits. Since you can disembark and move your at a 17" threat range.

?

 

Don't you get 3" and that's it?

My understanding was disembark within 3" but you can make your 6" move after. Then with 8" flamer range that means 17" threat.

[Arkhanist]

 

I'm really liking putting 5 devs with 4x heavy flamers in transports. With cherub thats 5d6 str5 ap1 hits. Since you can disembark and move your at a 17" threat range. 

 

?

 

Don't you get 3" and that's it?

 

 

Units must disembark before the transport moves. They deploy within 3" of the transport, but then get a full move of their own, plus the range of the heavy flamer. So 3+6+8 = 17". Technically, you also include the size of their base - you only have to deploy within 3" from the transport, not wholly within, so the 'outer' edge of your base can be further away; and firing is measured base to base, so you can squeeze an extra inch out a standard base so a threat range of 18".

[Quixus]

Especially with the new 32mm bases

[Sun Reaver]

 

 

I'm really liking putting 5 devs with 4x heavy flamers in transports. With cherub thats 5d6 str5 ap1 hits. Since you can disembark and move your at a 17" threat range. 

 

?

 

Don't you get 3" and that's it?

 

 

Units must disembark before the transport moves. They deploy within 3" of the transport, but then get a full move of their own, plus the range of the heavy flamer. So 3+6+8 = 17". Technically, you also include the size of their base - you only have to deploy within 3" from the transport, not wholly within, so the 'outer' edge of your base can be further away; and firing is measured base to base, so you can squeeze an extra inch out a standard base so a threat range of 18".

 

 

This is dirty. Thank you for explaining. Now to unleash the burning wrath of Sanguinius on these noobs. 

[durdle-durdle]

Lessons today:

 

-sternguard with special bolters are pretty dank

-devestator squads with cherubs. Allows a model to shoot twice at bs2+ (I used it on a grav cannon)

-captains should always take a combi melta/plasma imo

-necron reanimation protocols. Holy emperor, it's so annoying trying to dig through that.

-hunter killer missles are worth it, gives a pretty solid alpha ability on every vehicle against monsters and other vehicles

[sebs_evo7]

Things i leant today

Heavy flamer overwatch is no joke

Land raiders can soak up an insane amount of damage

Death company dreadnoughts can put out the hurt but I'm not sure they are worth their points

Overcharging plasma is where it's at now

I'm also not sure about death company, I'm thinking with the amount of dakka on the table a squad size might need to be increased to 15 just so you still have roughly 7-8 when they make an assault

[terminatorAM]

I'm also not sure about death company, I'm thinking with the amount of dakka on the table a squad size might need to be increased to 15 just so you still have roughly 7-8 when they make an assault

I've been thinking something similar lately, but still have yet to play a game too test my theory. I worry that MSU jump squads won't fair well due to changes with cover and AP. To counter the threat of being shot before getting to a target, we're only left with 3 options:

 

1) Take max sized squads, like you mentioned

2) Mount up in transports in favor of JPs

3) Deep strike behind LOS in hopes of charging the next turn

[Fallenturtle]

 

I'm also not sure about death company, I'm thinking with the amount of dakka on the table a squad size might need to be increased to 15 just so you still have roughly 7-8 when they make an assault

I've been thinking something similar lately, but still have yet to play a game too test my theory. I worry that MSU jump squads won't fair well due to changes with cover and AP. To counter the threat of being shot before getting to a target, we're only left with 3 options:

 

1) Take max sized squads, like you mentioned

2) Mount up in transports in favor of JPs

3) Deep strike behind LOS in hopes of charging the next turn

 

I was debating that as well. putting them in either a rhino or a land raider/storm raven seems to be the best option for them so far.. especially vs smite spam lists..

[Morticon]

Ive been having success with 2 variants of a core shooty list- though I dont quite like it as its not BA enough for me. 

Thought id share, anyway. 

 

Dante

Corbs

 

2x Dread - TwinLas, TwinAuto
 

1x 10 Deathwatch  - PhaseSword, Fist

1x Razor

2x 5 Tactical Marines (PowerSword, CombiPlas, Heavy Flamer)   (Use of tacs was because of CP and also no points for other heavy weapons)
2x Razors - Twin-AC

2x Quad Bolter Rapier Batteries

1x Scorpios Whirlwind 

Variant was either:  

+ Raven 

or

+ Dread - twin-auto/twin-auto
+ 5 Tactical Marines (PowerSword, CombiPlas, Heavy Flamer) & Razor - Twin-AC


The first variant gives me as low as 8 deploys, while the second allows for 11.

Both games have blown the enemy off the table. Its just an incredible amount of shooting. 

I havent seen it mentioned in many places, but I believe that the Deathwatch are the best Astartes unit in the Index. For 19 points they get the old sternguard ammo and they get 3 attacks (replace bolter with bolter and chainsword).  Versatility like none other. This is a trade off I pay for their lack of synergy with the BA characters. 

To get to 8 deploys in the first list, Dante and a Dread will deploy in the Raven and pop out first turn for the alpha. 

I have discovered something id like to play that is more my style and more BA (to me anyway) - and will playtest in the upcoming weeks. 

 

Things i leant today
Heavy flamer overwatch is no joke
Land raiders can soak up an insane amount of damage
Death company dreadnoughts can put out the hurt but I'm not sure they are worth their points
Overcharging plasma is where it's at now
I'm also not sure about death company, I'm thinking with the amount of dakka on the table a squad size might need to be increased to 15 just so you still have roughly 7-8 when they make an assault

With you on every point here. 

Especially the OC plasma.  Captain or Dante a necessity now.

[Morticon]

FYI, the Corbs combo with the Swords are really nice.  Those 6s add a tiny bit of a punch where needed and his boost to getting guys back is solid. My new list will try maximise the BA benefits!  

[Jorre]

Sad to say but I to have had the most success with shooty Ba lists so far.

 

Current list I'm trying is

 

Captain on bike

Primaris lieutenant

 

Sniper scouts

 

Sicaran

Whirlwind

Predator auto/Las

2x 5 man devs

 

2 x assbacks

1 x lasback

 

That's 1500 points so can ramp it up a bit for 2k, while I'm doing very well with it so far I can't help but be a little disappointed in the fact there is 0 unique Ba units in it. Every time I add some Ba flavour I feel like the lists looses some efficiency

 

Hopefully we get a good dex soon, as I don't feel like we shout be so shooting biased

[Dont-Be-Haten]

had a couple games recently, main highlight point is:

 

retreating out of combat keeps messing me up, i don't know how to plan for that. every game, when i make my charge, i do well in combat...then the opponent backs up and lights up my guys now standing in the open. more and more i feel like we'd be better off playing red marines with death co or sanguinary guard or something for surgical strikes. My close combat army now seems to be tilting further and further to a shooting army with a few jump pack assassin units. It works fine for slightly more elite armies like eldar/other space marines, but against horde armies like guard (the person i play the most), cultist spam chaos, orks even, who are able to just fill their whole side of the board, having deep striking close combat guys seems more of a liability than ever. i find myself holding my guys until turn 2-3 to deep strike frequently into terrain and try to rush in the next turn. the shooting needs to obliterate the front and really weaken the enemy before i can make my glorious charges and finish them off.

 

or maybe i just need to go whole hog into it and bring nothing but jump pack marines. doubt it, but to be fair, i haven't really tried it.

you have to sling shot around them. Force the opposing unit to go through a bottle neck. if every model can't get through then they must stay locked. <Fly> is a whole different animal though as they simply jump away.

[Aothaine]

Shooty lists are going to be effective because you generally don't have to close the gap to do your damage. A list I'm still working on that will be my Flesh Tearer list is the following

 

HQ - Gabriel Seth

HQ - Libby + jp

HQ - Sang Priest + jp

 

ELITE - DC Assault 10-15man (anti-horde, chainswords & bolt pistols + jump packs)

ELITE - Terminators 5-10man (TH+SS)

ELITE - Company Veterans (TH+SS) or (Melta/plas + SS) In drop pod with Seth

 

TROOP - Scouts 5man (Bolters)

TROOP - Scouts 5man (Bolters)

TROOP - Scouts 5man (Bolters)

TROOP - Scouts 5man (Bolters)

TROOP - Scouts 5man (Sniper Riflex4 + Missle Launcher + Camo Cloaks)

TROOP - Scouts 5man (Sniper Riflex4 + Missle Launcher + Camo Cloaks)

 

FAST ATTACK - Assault Squad 5-10man (Chainswords and TH with jump packs)

FAST ATTACK - Assault Squad 5-10man (Chainswords and TH with jump packs)

FAST ATTACK - Assault Squad 5-10man (Chainswords and TH with jump packs)

 

HEAVY SUPPORT - Baal Predator (Flamestorm Cannon + 2 Heavy Flamers)

HEAVY SUPPORT - Baal Predator (Flamestorm Cannon + 2 Heavy Flamers)

HEAVY SUPPORT - Baal Predator (Flamestorm Cannon + 2 Heavy Flamers)

 

The goal is to deploy the snipes in firing lanes opposed to the enemy charafters. The bolter scouts deploy in rapid fire range and prepare to assault or take objectives. The Baal's deploy in forward positions to be able to move and fire all weapons on the next turn and hopefully eat overwatch for the assaulting scouts. The jp, drop pod and terminators come down in the back lines or the terms on one flank and dc and the CV on the other to lock the opponent in. The assault squad marines will drop in where needed to fill gaps in the line.

 

The list is still a work in progress and I need to do some more testing before it is perfected. But the goal is for everything to get close except the snipers. 

 

I think assault armies are still going to work you just need more anvil than hammer. Though Thunder Hammers are the name of the game. You want and need them.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Aothaine

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

 

 

 

I'm also not sure about death company, I'm thinking with the amount of dakka on the table a squad size might need to be increased to 15 just so you still have roughly 7-8 when they make an assault

I've been thinking something similar lately, but still have yet to play a game too test my theory. I worry that MSU jump squads won't fair well due to changes with cover and AP. To counter the threat of being shot before getting to a target, we're only left with 3 options:

 

1) Take max sized squads, like you mentioned

2) Mount up in transports in favor of JPs

3) Deep strike behind LOS in hopes of charging the next turn

I was debating that as well. putting them in either a rhino or a land raider/storm raven seems to be the best option for them so far.. especially vs smite spam lists..

I can confirm it is the best move. Had mine in a crudader with a chaplain last night and not only did they make it into assault but the LR kept on annoying my opponent. Im thinking of swapping it out for a rhino though to save points and try and bring more high damage weaponry to the table. Daemon Engines are resilient!

 

As far as HQs go. I havent tried named characters yet but having a chaplain and a captain near enough to provide constant CC rerolls is awesome! Infuriated my opponent to no end. But on the flip side, sanguinary priests do not pull there own weight...

Edited July 1, 2017 by Dolchiate Remembrancer

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

 

Blood Angels came in 1st at the Boise Cup GT. Here's the list:

 

Flyer Wing Detachment

Stormraven x3 AssCan, MM, Stormstrike, Hurricane Bolters

 

Flyer Wing Detachment

Stormhawk x2 Interceptor Asscan, Skyhammer, Icarus

Stormraven Las, MM, Stormstrike, Hurricane Bolters

 

Patrol Detachment

Captain w/ Jump pack, Storm Shield, Relic Blade

5 Tac w/ Hvy flamer, Combi-flamer, PF

 

5 Command Points

1844 Points

 

Kinda gross if you ask me, although this does have me debating on switching to 2 Stormravens.

Congrats to the winner. This is not meant to knock on him at all, but this list is really not "Blood Angels" and in fact will do us a disservice. This is the kind of thing that people like Reece at FLG will point to and say "BA are OP! They won the first 8th tournament ever!"

 

In fact, the above list will hurt us more than anything in the long run.

 

How so?

-it's Red Marines through-and-through. Literally the ONLY thing that makes it "BA" is the heavy flamer. That's somewhat of a neutral for us, but it's important to note and all will agree on that

---however, this could set the "lets have red centurions" crowd back even further because this sort of list will "prove" that BA "don't need" the units we are missing

 

-this kind of list exploited the new environment of 8th by going so heavy on Flyers. This is bad in he long run because it means top-tier players will wise-up very quickly and we can expect way more AA in the future

---which is absolutely disastrous for BA. So many of our units have the FLY unit keyword meaning all that AA gets +1 To Hit on us. As if hopping up the board was not hard enough as it is

 

 

I know we've moved on from this topic but I just had to say how much I agree. The BA presence in the ITC ratings were already screwed up in 7th due to the "Flesh Tearer Drop-pod taxi service" and this is just the sort of gimmick that skew the results yet again.

 

I asked Reece some questions regarding BA and he told me straight out that Frankie from FLG was the play-tester for the Blood Angels stuff in Matched Play 8th edition. So if you like it, you can thank Frankie, if not you have someone to blame haha.

 

Frankie was a big BA player in 5th edition (obviously since that was the last time we had a "competitive" codex and he likely dropped them immediately after)... which is why our current Index seems to ignore any association/knowledge of Angel's Blade, and also why the focus is on the Matt Ward characters like Astorath and the Sanguinor.

[Jolemai]

So basically one bloke's agenda has set us up for the next four/five years?

[Aothaine]

@Jolemai

 

Maybe. I would keep in mind here that GW is being really open and the best way for us, as Blood Angel & successor players, to make changes for the better to to make sure they know what is working, what is broken and what we are expecting of our chapter's play style. Also of important note is that we approach GW in a professional manner with statistics, testing examples, and perhaps even polls from Blood Angel & successor chapters. 

 

I wouldn't put much stock into all flyer lists they are going to be just like the all imperial knight lists imho. They will surprise people at first until everyone starts to wise up and build lists with enough to counter them. 

 

Also, jump packing up the board is still very possible and only fools are going to gear their lists to be entirely anti-flyer. Also to assume that anti-flyer units only affect us is kind of silly. T'au crisis suits are incredibly powerful right now. There are a slew of other flying units that can cause mayhem. So just expect your opponent to have some anti-air and just take that into consideration when you're building your lists.

 

I honestly think that lists like this can be flavorful if done correctly. I mean, the winner could have gone with a different chapter entirely if he wanted to really screw people over. Dark Angels is a good example. They have some really scary flyers.

 

Anyway.. back to tactics

 

What do you guys think the best delivery system for Gabriel Seth and Company Veterans would be?

 

Drop Pod

Razorback

Storm Raven (+ Libby Dreadnought)

@jole

So basically one bloke's agenda has set us up for the next four/five years?

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by Aothaine

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

So basically one bloke's agenda has set us up for the next four/five years?

 

Not sure if you mean the Flyers list guy, or Frankie from FLG. That flyers list gimmick will likely not last too long, though it will still have some effect on the ITC for "Blood Angels".

 

If you mean Frankie, then yeah pretty much haha. Times like these I wish I had Facebook to voice an opinion.

[tychobi]

I tried a couple units of 3 dual flamer Land Speeders last game.  Did surprisingly well vs a mech heavy ork list. (no troops just gorkanaught, battlewagon full o lootaz and lots o buggies)  Lost due to dice but killed off most of the list.  Gonna experiment more.  Initial 20" move makes for BBQ from the word go!

[Quixus]

Apart from not getting the rerolls from captains and chaplains, do we lose anything else by taking stormhawks/stormtalons in an otherwise BA detachment?

[Morticon]

Apart from not getting the rerolls from captains and chaplains, do we lose anything else by taking stormhawks/stormtalons in an otherwise BA detachment?

 

Absolutely nothing.  Rerolls aside, we have for all intents and purposes, "been given access to" these units. 

[Quixus]

But land speeders storm can't transport our scouts, right?