8th Ed BA Tactica.

[Pathstrider]

They use the more expensive cost now. The Dark Imperium FAQ says to use points cost from the Index: Imperium 1 instead :(

Ah yes, read it the wrong way around

[vahouth]

Inceptors are so overpriced, it's not even funny. 

[OrbOfAntioch]

Preparing for my 1st "large" 8th game, aka a normal 2k game... 

 

Detachments: 2

-Vanguard (+1CP)

-Air Wing (+1CP)

 

Units:

-Dante

-Mephiston

-3x Storm Ravens, same load out: Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter, Hurricane Bolters, Missiles. 

-4x Command Vets w/JP, 4x Plasma Rifles

-5x SG, Axes and Plasma

-5x VV, 5SSs, 4THs

-7x JP DC, all Bolter & Chainsword

-7 DC, all Bolter & Chainsword

 

Strategy:

-Move 3x Ravens up, transporting VVs, SGs and non-JP DCs inside

-JPA Dante between the SR trinity, JPA Command Vets, and use JP DC around dante for some bubble wrap protection

-Use Dante's 6" reroll to boost every shooting unit, and unload all SR weapons and overcharged plasma at enemy near and far. 

-Follow up with T2 charges on priority units using VV/SG, deliverying out of SRs for 15"move, use Mephiston for 4++ on something, and Dante for reroll to hit for SG/VV in combat. 

 

 

Couple of hesitations:

-Super light on infantry units.... is that okay?

-Not sure if Mephiston is better than a Sanguinary Priest/Corbulo plus some more DCs. I like him because he's Str 10 and can monster hunt out of SR while giving a 4++ to my SGs.. but..

-Can I squeeze in a techmarine in there? Are they even good for fixing SRs?

 

 

What do you guys think? 

 

 

Finally got the game in with the list I made above (2k). Here's the report and analysis:

 

Opponent: Tzeench

Magnus, Changeling, Ahriman

6 Flamers, Lascannon Disc, Helldrake

20 Tzeengors w/ CCWs, 10 Rubric, some Horror fillers

10 Scarab Terminators 

^That's what I can remember. 

 

Mission: 

Maelstrom 1 = Cleanse w/ 6 ObjMarkers

I won the marker roll and placed first to get choice of deployment for Spearhead

I had 6 units for deployment, opponent failed to seize, and went first. 

 

Observations:

1. Dante + SR Alpha Strike is no joke. 

-Rerolls is no joke.

    -Dakka Jets did massive damage before retaliation, even with against the all-invuln and -1 hit changeling composition. 

    -4 Plasma Rifles on CVs managed to strip 8 wounds on Magnus, and took out 2 Scarab Terminators before it bit the dust; nobody ever died from overload. 

-Jets with 45'' move also provides excellent maneuverability deterrence against enemy chargers / deep strikers

 

2. DCs did not deliver. (I love DCs but I have to be critical)

-Now, I'm only talking about DCs within the configuration of SR Alpha Strike framework, so read with grains of salt. 

-The JPA DCs did its job of shielding Dante from some chargers and other firepower that snuck in the SR Trinity, but ASM can do the same. 6+++ is useless. 

-In terms of damage output for the game, I believe the DCs killed precisely nothing. With all the horde enemies already blown out by the Dakka Jets, DCs had no efficient targets. 

    -The JPA DCs all died from shooting

    -The SR DCs w/ Mephiston charged some terminators and withered away. 

 

3. Specialty units did it's job. But...

-After a whole army doing smite volleys, Magnus was able to fly up and finish a SR loading the SGs in combat. 

-T2 VVs, SGs & Meph unloaded and all got into combat. SR DCs bit the dust badly on overwatch. Anything with -1+ AP hurts them bad. 

    -The plasma spam worked almost too well. When the VVs w/ SS/TH got into Magnus he only had 3 wounds and duly died without resistance. Which begs the question, if they are geared to transported by SRs 100% of the time, is the JP or SS really necessary? 

    -Unsurprisingly, Mephiston didn't get to do much vs a Tzeench army as a Psyker. He did get into a horde of Scarab Terminators and slowly worked its way. I like the idea of having him, but in this particular game he is underwhelming. What am I really using him for in an army like this?

 

 

Game Outcome:

BA scored 6-0 and won on sudden death T3

 

 

Conclusions for the future:

1. I like the theme of the death from above for BA and SRs have always been a part of my list (I have 5 so gotta usem') and I think in this edition it will shine, however I do not see flier spam as a viable strategy; afterall, these SRs are not those helicopters from Apocalypse Now - a lot of units are rather good at taking them down and quickly. I had 24 wounds stripped off the Ravens in 3 turns against an army not geared for AA. The reason I still like them from a competitive standpoint is because they provide the transport capacity coupled with the firepower needed for alpha strikes. Which means that the units transported inside must matter. So, what do we put into them?

 

2. JP VVs w/ TH/SS is good, but I think this is not the place for it. Even with SSs they are still glass cannons that dies to anything that gets to shoot/charge it. Which makes me wonder, if getting the "job" done, whatever that is, is all that matters, is DC with THs better? The +1A could matter. 

 

3. SGs with axes and plasma held up. They are versatile and cost efficient; the S5 is still a threat for anything T6+. I think they will stay as a permanent part of the army. 

 

4. I'm retiring my DCs as a means of delivering damage. In this game I've used them for 2 roles: 1) JPA meatshield and 2) durable CC unit. So, what's the replacement?

    -at 280pt, 5x Terminators with TH/SSs is a bit more costly than the DCs, but they really do a lot more. This could even become my alternative for the JP VVs used above.

    -Terminators being slow will probably not benefit from Dante reliably, so I could trash the rerolls and go Cataphracti. At 238 pts I can have 3PF, 2LC Cataphractis at my service for very versatile performance. 

 

5. If the opponent is experienced, he will certainly deny optimal deepstrike placement our assassin units, which renders my T1 with the current list lacking in AT power. The good news is that the SR heavy bolter is redundant if armed with AC+HB. So I think I will find the points for multimeltas. Couple that with Stormstrikes it will be threatening enough. Deal enough damage to cripple, and finish off in T2 with plasma/meltacides and surgical combat. 

 

 

 

 

Sorry for the long post. Any suggestions for improvement, drastic or incremental? 

Edited July 3, 2017 by OrbOfAntioch

[TheHarrower]

That's how we have been playing them already on my firends Zerkers. They are sooo damned good.

They should scare you. Kill them or they will kill you *nod.

Rightfully so for the first time since like 3rd edition. =)

We are glad our armies are really playable again for the first time in several editions.

 

If you think they are sick, check out Nids!

Orks scare they sh*t out of me too. When the boyz arrive things die, They can get to like 5 attacks each.

I'm loving 8th edition.

 

Berzerkers actually got clarified to say you can interrupt with a counter offensive between those two sets of attacks so that actually tones them down a bit.

If you see Zerkers you still better have a cunning plan!

 

I have no problem with them being really good. I have a problem when I look at the Death Company which is supposed to be another elite melee unit and seeing how they are just trash. Not having problems being competitive and winning games, just not happy that I'm playing red marines and not Blood Angels.

[Aothaine]

 

That's how we have been playing them already on my firends Zerkers. They are sooo damned good.

They should scare you. Kill them or they will kill you *nod.

Rightfully so for the first time since like 3rd edition. =)

We are glad our armies are really playable again for the first time in several editions.

 

If you think they are sick, check out Nids!

Orks scare they sh*t out of me too. When the boyz arrive things die, They can get to like 5 attacks each.

I'm loving 8th edition.

 

Berzerkers actually got clarified to say you can interrupt with a counter offensive between those two sets of attacks so that actually tones them down a bit.

If you see Zerkers you still better have a cunning plan!

 

I have no problem with them being really good. I have a problem when I look at the Death Company which is supposed to be another elite melee unit and seeing how they are just trash. Not having problems being competitive and winning games, just not happy that I'm playing red marines and not Blood Angels.

 

 

I don't think they are trash. I think they have had their role changed. They are the anti-horde assault unit. Expensive. But very usable. I also think they are a great distracting unit and can throw some big punches before they get taken out. Most assault units are glass cannons. We need to think about how we use them now and no just throw them willy-nilly into the enemy.

 

Interesting bat rep. I agree that SRs are going to be key in most alpha strike lists. There are a few others that won't need them though. Scout lists that drop terminators in the back line, or front line would be a good example.

[Sir_Gaea]

Good Evening to all on this thread. I am a Sisters of Battle player, but I have been wanting to branch out into plastic models. I was thinking between starting Blood Angels or Storm Troopers but there is one thing that really weighs heavily towards Blood Angels.

 

Jump packs.

 

I love my Seraphim with Inferno Pistols, but I want something more. Reading about Company Veterans, Storm Shields, and combi-plasma has me wondering if this is valid: Can I have the Veteran Sergeant, Space Marine Veteran, AND a Captain all with Jet packs, Storm Shields, and Combi-Plasma? (I want a combi weapon because I can magnetize them to change the targets.)

[Quixus]

For some reason the veteran Sgt cannot take a storm shield. Everything else is OK. If you are magnetizing anyway, why not magnetize at the wrist as well. That way you have all options.

[Brother_Angelus]

For some reason the veteran Sgt cannot take a storm shield. Everything else is OK. If you are magnetizing anyway, why not magnetize at the wrist as well. That way you have all options.

 

FAQ fixed that, he can now.

[Remtek]

I ran 5 x 2 man jumper plasma vets  in two games this weekend. It's rapidly becoming my favorite unit for 8th.  I can't make DC work, maybe i'm doing something wrong, but they don't seem good at anything. 

[LutherMax]

I just finished reading this whole thread from beginning to end, having been under a proverbial hobby rock since before 8th Ed dropped. Man, I have a lot to learn! Once again I feel like I need to refocus on different units (I pretty much constantly feel like that in this hobby :D ) but I'm excited to get stuck in.

 

I'm gonna try and put something together using:

 

Dante

Priest

Sanguinary Guard

Scouts

Stormraven

Land Raider

Razorbacks

 

From what I've read these seem like generally favoured units.

 

I might also put together my auto/las Predator which is currently still in it's box...

[Jolemai]

Magnets for the Predator! Whilst the Predator cannon has initially been favoured, two lascannon shots (instead of one) for only a single point more in cost isn't to be sniffed at.

 

Basically we haven't nailed down the best configuration yet and with split fire, even an Annihilator with HB sponsors can actually work this edition!

[Jimm]

Had two 2.5k games vs sw yesterday and took a few things away from it.

Dante, sg, priest and lib for a 4++ on the sg is really strong. I went with all swords and bolters and worked out well.

Dc dreads cause a lot of damage and the 6" consolidation move is so much better than I thought it would be.

Full Las predators caused me problems, faced 2 in both games and with auras giving rerolls on hits and wounds of 1 they were really consistent.

Devs with heavy bolters were a good cheap backfield addition

Flamers, you don't charge flamers!

[LutherMax]

Magnets for the Predator! Whilst the Predator cannon has initially been favoured, two lascannon shots (instead of one) for only a single point more in cost isn't to be sniffed at.

 

Basically we haven't nailed down the best configuration yet and with split fire, even an Annihilator with HB sponsors can actually work this edition!

Magnets it is!

 

What's the best / cheapest unit to give them a re-roll to hit?

[Jolemai]

Command Points for being Battlefield/using a Detachment ;) these are a premium though. Other than that, it depends what you are doing with the Predator. If it's standing still then a Captain would work, if you're moving it then anything that can keep up - Dante would work here as you're considering him already but there are other options.

[Charlo]

Tycho is a pretty amazing backfield buffer now. One of the only captains that can get a 2+.

[LutherMax]

2+ BS or Sv?

[Charlo]

Save :) outside of terminator armour. 

[LutherMax]

Normal Caps can't get Artificer anymore..?

[Fidelius Animo]

Shooty lists are going to be effective because you generally don't have to close the gap to do your damage. A list I'm still working on that will be my Flesh Tearer list is the following

 

HQ - Gabriel Seth

HQ - Libby + jp

HQ - Sang Priest + jp

 

ELITE - DC Assault 10-15man (anti-horde, chainswords & bolt pistols + jump packs)

ELITE - Terminators 5-10man (TH+SS)

ELITE - Company Veterans (TH+SS) or (Melta/plas + SS) In drop pod with Seth

 

TROOP - Scouts 5man (Bolters)

TROOP - Scouts 5man (Bolters)

TROOP - Scouts 5man (Bolters)

TROOP - Scouts 5man (Bolters)

TROOP - Scouts 5man (Sniper Riflex4 + Missle Launcher + Camo Cloaks)

TROOP - Scouts 5man (Sniper Riflex4 + Missle Launcher + Camo Cloaks)

 

FAST ATTACK - Assault Squad 5-10man (Chainswords and TH with jump packs)

FAST ATTACK - Assault Squad 5-10man (Chainswords and TH with jump packs)

FAST ATTACK - Assault Squad 5-10man (Chainswords and TH with jump packs)

 

HEAVY SUPPORT - Baal Predator (Flamestorm Cannon + 2 Heavy Flamers)

HEAVY SUPPORT - Baal Predator (Flamestorm Cannon + 2 Heavy Flamers)

HEAVY SUPPORT - Baal Predator (Flamestorm Cannon + 2 Heavy Flamers)

 

The goal is to deploy the snipes in firing lanes opposed to the enemy charafters. The bolter scouts deploy in rapid fire range and prepare to assault or take objectives. The Baal's deploy in forward positions to be able to move and fire all weapons on the next turn and hopefully eat overwatch for the assaulting scouts. The jp, drop pod and terminators come down in the back lines or the terms on one flank and dc and the CV on the other to lock the opponent in. The assault squad marines will drop in where needed to fill gaps in the line.

 

The list is still a work in progress and I need to do some more testing before it is perfected. But the goal is for everything to get close except the snipers.

 

I think assault armies are still going to work you just need more anvil than hammer. Though Thunder Hammers are the name of the game. You want and need them.

FYI unless I missed this in the errata, Flesh Tearer Libs don't get access to Sanguinary Discipline

[Charlo]

Normal Caps can't get Artificer anymore..?

 

3+/4++

 

Probably to 1: differentiate terminators more

2: make it less confusing to newbies, it's all power armour, sometimes it's just fancier!

3: make the special characters more special

[Charlo]

 

FYI unless I missed this in the errata, Flesh Tearer Libs don't get access to Sanguinary Discipline

 

Of course they do... You just replace the words Blood Angel's with Flesh Tearer's, but they are counted as the same in all cases except special characters.

[Aothaine]

Dc dreads cause a lot of damage and the 6" consolidation move is so much better than I thought it would be.

 

 

I am hearing this a lot from people that are using DC dreads. They maul things.

 

 

 

FYI unless I missed this in the errata, Flesh Tearer Libs don't get access to Sanguinary Discipline

 

 

I like the buffs on the space marine discipline better actually. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Aothaine

[Sir_Gaea]

For some reason the veteran Sgt cannot take a storm shield. Everything else is OK. If you are magnetizing anyway, why not magnetize at the wrist as well. That way you have all options.

For magnets on the wrist, would 2mm wide be fine for the wrist or do I need to get 1mm wide magnets?

 

[EDIT] I want to start a non mechanized Patrol detachment using Burning of Prospero, so what are good weapons for Devastators? One unit of Missile Launchers and the other unit, what, Plasma Cannons, Laser Cannons?

Edited July 3, 2017 by Sir_Gaea

[Xenith]

 

[EDIT] I want to start a non mechanized Patrol detachment using Burning of Prospero, so what are good weapons for Devastators? One unit of Missile Launchers and the other unit, what, Plasma Cannons, Laser Cannons?

 

Whichever makes the best sound effect in your head.

 

Lascannons are pretty good now, and almost necessary to take down big nasties. Heavy bolters are also good because they are cheap, and put out a lot of shots. 

 

You could always buy 2 packs of heavy wepaons from FW and start with a spearhead detachment of 3x devastator squads, with 4xlascannons, 4x plasma, and 4x heavy bolters or missile launchers. 

[LutherMax]

For magnets on the wrist, would 2mm wide be fine for the wrist or do I need to get 1mm wide magnets?

2mm is perfect for marine-sized wrists. 3mm is good for arm-to-shoulder / jump packs.

Edited July 3, 2017 by LutherMax