8th Ed BA Tactica.

[LutherMax]

What do you mean "for 30 points more you can field two"?

[Morticon]

What do you mean "for 30 points more you can field two"?

 

215 for a Scorp. 

248 for 2 Whirlwinds with Vengeance launchers. 

[Jorre]

Luther those 3 tanks fully kitted are just a smidgen over 600 points, almost half of that is the sicaran though, but 8 super auto cannon shots 2 lascannon shots and a heavy bolter is no joke!

 

I am hoping the sicaran will be useful against people trying to take advantage of fliers atm.. although a 6+ flyer list will probably be able to focus fire the sicaran down it will still be useful for those with 1-2 flyers

[Jorre]

 

 

I plan on running 1 of each myself Luther along with a relic Sicaran for my long range support!

What sort of points / power level do you think you'd need to fit them all in??

Pretty sure jorre has entered a 1500 point event

 

 

Yes 1500 next weekend You should come Seb! No better time than the present to jump in the tournament scene!

[sebs_evo7]

I'm going to try and enter the doubles that are coming up.

Quite a few from my gaming group will be playing next weekend though.

Let me know how your whirlwind gets on. I've been eying up the kromlech alternative for some time

[LutherMax]

 

What do you mean "for 30 points more you can field two"?

 

 

215 for a Scorp. 

248 for 2 Whirlwinds with Vengeance launchers.

Gotcha!

[Fidelius Animo]

So maybe my search-fu is weak but can someone clarify exactly how charging works with JP?

 

Movement rules state models with FLY treat other models and terrain as if it isn't there.

 

Charge rules state that you can't move within an 1" of any unit you didn't charge.

 

I know fly allows you to ignore other models for charge movement if your charge them. Ie if a unit is a max coherency and you charge it you can move your flyers in between them.

 

But can you out right ignore a unit?

[Quixus]

Unless I missed something FLY does nothing in the Charge Phase. The right to ignore terrain and model only applies to the Movement Phase.

[Fidelius Animo]

Unless I missed something FLY does nothing in the Charge Phase. The right to ignore terrain and model only applies to the Movement Phase.

Not played 40k in 10 plus years and Just wasn't sure if GW had actually standardized its rules across phases or not.

 

The fly rules are listed in the movement phase but they repeatedly use the term "move" and while I know GW is notorious for favoring specific uses rather than general terminology, I kinda assumed since the charge phase also uses "move," that fly would carry over.

 

For example if fly doesn't carry over do Jump packs, elder bikes, flyrants, daemon princes etc not ignore terrain during charge phase?

Edited July 6, 2017 by Fidelius Animo

[Riot Earp]

How good is an Techmarine with JP over one with an Bike?

 

I see mostly downsides (ok he can embark in a stormraven, and he has fly with all it positive sites) but the biker keeps his servo arm and can wear an servo harnisch all on bike.

If i did the math korrekt (remove the servo arm and add the JP) the JP Techmarine is also more expensive than the biker.

Any suggestions why i should take the JP Techmarine over the Biker?

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Pretty sure you jump over stuff on the charge just fine if you have the horizontal movement range on your roll. That is how I have seen it played and been playing it anyhow. You can go over a unit or barricade for instance, but are perhaps still charging into area terrain if that is where you are landing. That's how we have been doing it anyhow. If it becomes an issue charge the unit you are going up and over also.

 

---

 

Regarding the jump pack on the tech marine over the bike. The bike is mostly better, but the jump pack should be considered to perhaps deploy in a vehicle and perhaps let you go first.

[Fidelius Animo]

Pretty sure you jump over stuff on the charge just fine if you have the horizontal movement range on your roll. That is how I have seen it played and been playing it anyhow. You can go over a unit or barricade for instance, but are perhaps still charging into area terrain if that is where you are landing. That's how we have been doing it anyhow. If it becomes an issue charge the unit you are going up and over also.

 

---

 

Regarding the jump pack on the tech marine over the bike. The bike is mostly better, but the jump pack should be considered to perhaps deploy in a vehicle and perhaps let you go first.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Have your eldar and nids players been playing it that way too ?

[Riot Earp]

Pretty sure you jump over stuff on the charge just fine if you have the horizontal movement range on your roll. That is how I have seen it played and been playing it anyhow. You can go over a unit or barricade for instance, but are perhaps still charging into area terrain if that is where you are landing. That's how we have been doing it anyhow. If it becomes an issue charge the unit you are going up and over also.

 

---

 

Regarding the jump pack on the tech marine over the bike. The bike is mostly better, but the jump pack should be considered to perhaps deploy in a vehicle and perhaps let you go first.

 

Thank you for the feedback.

I will play one on bike and one with jp soon for two hq requirements in an battalion detachment.

Will tell how good they performed. I guess the techmarine has to be outside to repair vehicles. But i think they can repair stormravens despite they are airborne.

[LutherMax]

i think they can repair stormravens despite they are airborne.

That's pretty cool if so... where did you read that?

[Are Verlo]

As a side note; the techmarinies really knows their craft. As long as he is within 1" of a chapter vehicle he can repair it. Even if both he and the vehicle is in close combat :-)

 

Edit: There is no restiction on the vehicles he can repair, other than 1" and <chapter>. If you look at the orks their meks can´t repair vehcles with the fly keyword

Edited July 6, 2017 by Are Verlo

[Fidelius Animo]

 

i think they can repair stormravens despite they are airborne.

That's pretty cool if so... where did you read that?

What rule would stop them?

 

All airborne does is stop you from getting charged but from models moving towards/in contact with you

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I've been trying to find a place for a Multi-Melta attack bike in this edition. The Multi-Melta Forgeworld razorback seems like a better option that does the exact same thing for something like 20 points more, and is almost double the AB in efficiency. Thoughts?

[LutherMax]

 

 

i think they can repair stormravens despite they are airborne.

That's pretty cool if so... where did you read that?

 

What rule would stop them?

 

All airborne does is stop you from getting charged but from models moving towards/in contact with you

 

Sorry I read Riot Earp's post wrong – I thought he meant they can repair them when embarked, but the rules for Transports in general prevent that.

[Karhedron]

I've been trying to find a place for a Multi-Melta attack bike in this edition. The Multi-Melta Forgeworld razorback seems like a better option that does the exact same thing for something like 20 points more, and is almost double the AB in efficiency. Thoughts?

Razorbacks do seem to outclass almost all other weapon platforms for efficiency. I wonder if we will see the nerf bat swinging their way in the new codex?

[Aothaine]

 

I've been trying to find a place for a Multi-Melta attack bike in this edition. The Multi-Melta Forgeworld razorback seems like a better option that does the exact same thing for something like 20 points more, and is almost double the AB in efficiency. Thoughts?

Razorbacks do seem to outclass almost all other weapon platforms for efficiency. I wonder if we will see the nerf bat swinging their way in the new codex?

 

 

Pretty sure they will either increase in cost or drop in utility/survivability. When it is better to take a Razorback over a dedicated tank or a full transport you'll have problems.

 

The Razorback fills an important role. Transport and anti-tank/meq/horde depending on it's load out. It does that job well. But it is making the selection of a few other units obsolete. So GW is going to need to do something in regards to that or dis-continue Rhinos and make Predator's cheaper. The problem then becomes balancing. 

 

It will be interesting to see if GW wants to try and tackle the conundrum that is the Razorback. It is a really good unit right now. Almost too good to pass up unless you're going with Storm Ravens. Limiting the Razorbacks to only be taken 1:1 with infantry will stop some of the abuse though. Taking a transport option for a tank is just silly.

[Damon Nightman]

So have you guys been charging your HQs into combat with whatever squads they are buffing?

 

I ended up losing my chaplain last game because I charged a group of ork boyz with my D.C. And Chap. The D.C. Charged first and I decided to attack first with them. My opponent then used 2 command points to interrupt the chap and attack him with all the ork boyz in the combat... my chap died... is there a way to avoid this besides not charging with the HQ? It feels really lame to leave a chap hanging back out of combat especially for BA....

 

Also, the stratagem to interrupt the charges is so lame... can we also get a startagem to interrupt an enemy's shooting attack so I can shoot at them first? :P

[Charlo]

I think the "fix" is to reduce the cost of predators - make them more attractive rather than make razorbacks needlessly more expensive.

 

I don't think stats will be tweaked so much as points going forward.

[LutherMax]

So have you guys been charging your HQs into combat with whatever squads they are buffing?

 

I ended up losing my chaplain last game because I charged a group of ork boyz with my D.C. And Chap. The D.C. Charged first and I decided to attack first with them. My opponent then used 2 command points to interrupt the chap and attack him with all the ork boyz in the combat... my chap died... is there a way to avoid this besides not charging with the HQ? It feels really lame to leave a chap hanging back out of combat especially for BA....

 

Also, the stratagem to interrupt the charges is so lame... can we also get a startagem to interrupt an enemy's shooting attack so I can shoot at them first?

Where does that Strategem come from..?

[Fidelius Animo]

 

So have you guys been charging your HQs into combat with whatever squads they are buffing?

 

I ended up losing my chaplain last game because I charged a group of ork boyz with my D.C. And Chap. The D.C. Charged first and I decided to attack first with them. My opponent then used 2 command points to interrupt the chap and attack him with all the ork boyz in the combat... my chap died... is there a way to avoid this besides not charging with the HQ? It feels really lame to leave a chap hanging back out of combat especially for BA....

 

Also, the stratagem to interrupt the charges is so lame... can we also get a startagem to interrupt an enemy's shooting attack so I can shoot at them first?

Where does that Strategem come from..?

The main rule book

[Karhedron]

I think the "fix" is to reduce the cost of predators - make them more attractive rather than make razorbacks needlessly more expensive.

 

I don't think stats will be tweaked so much as points going forward.

I think the Razorback will have to go up in price. The Predator already compares adequately with Devastator squads so I don't think making it cheaper would improve matters.

 

The Rhino costs what it does because all it can do is carry troops. The RB costs less (due to the lower transport capacity) yet has the opportunity to take a twin heavy weapon. GW is notoriously bad at assessing "opportunity costs" like this. I would say make the RB the same price as a Rhino and it will be less of a problem. The reduced transport capacity of the RB is only a "problem" if you are running all large squads. There are plenty of squads in a Marine army that work quite happily at-men. Also you can combat squad if you want to.

 

Also make it so only "Infantry" unlock Transports and that will improve matters.