8th Ed BA Tactica.

[Jolemai]

This is big simply because it's the initial one, hence all the generalisations. People are more than welcome to create their own discussions that we can add to our Resources page, something which is already filling up with excellent content.

 

Feel free to contribute :)

[bluntpencil]

 

Dreadnought, what dreadnought?:

 

BA Librarian dreadnoughts are characters, unlike other dreads. Characters with less than 10 wounds (lib dread has 8) cannot be targeted unless they are the closest visible model to the firer. So as long as you keep him behind someone else, that 20 foot high metal monster can hide in plain sight.

 

 

 

I know this was a while ago, but an even better trick:

 

Pair it up with a Command Squad. Tank the wounds onto the Dread, then have them intercepted by the Command Squad.

[Jolemai]

If I ever had an urge to buy Centurions, this would be their use.

[Xenith]

 

 

Dreadnought, what dreadnought?:

 

BA Librarian dreadnoughts are characters, unlike other dreads. Characters with less than 10 wounds (lib dread has 8) cannot be targeted unless they are the closest visible model to the firer. So as long as you keep him behind someone else, that 20 foot high metal monster can hide in plain sight.

 

 

 

I know this was a while ago, but an even better trick:

 

Pair it up with a Command Squad. Tank the wounds onto the Dread, then have them intercepted by the Command Squad.

 

 

It's a fun idea, but seeing as if the command squad is nearby they probably cannot shoot the dread, and if they can it will be with lascannons or meltas, you will be prone to losing that command squad in one go:

 

Lascannon shoots command squad: hits, wounds, does 5 damage -> 1 model dies

Lascannon shoots dread: hits, wounds, does 5 damage, elect to intercept with command squad -> roll 5 dice for each 2+ a model dies.

 

It would be better to have jump packs and a couple of storm shields on the command squad and have them there to purely get in the way to make sure the libby is never the closest target.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Xenith

[Fidelius Animo]

Other than counter psykers, is there any reliable way to survive this relatively scary combo a friend of mine plans in fielding:

 

to expand.

 

Warp talons can deep strike more than 9" from an enemy. a sorcerer can also deep strike in, and be within 3" of the Warp Talons. They can manifest "warptime" to make the warp talons advance in the psychic phase. Then the warp talons can assault that turn and due to their special warpflame assault rules they can not be overwatch'd the turn they deep strike and charge. So you drop 10 dudes with pairs o lightning claws (mini wolverines) withing 9.000001" of target HQ/Heavy Guns/soft squishy middle and rightly :cuss it up proper.

 

the 5man raptor squads have a plasma pistol, plasma gun and combi plasma. the list has 2 chaos lords with jump packs to also strike in with combi plasma and the lords let units within 6" re-roll ones. so you can supercharge the plasma and be reletivly safe. 2 units and 2 lords like that also drop in and start hitting some of the smaller units/solos/tanks whatnot. meanwhile the list still has 30 CSMs in rhinos and 2 hel drakes.

 

edit*

if it wasn't for the matched play rules it would be more warp talons and sorcerer's but... balance

 

it seems pretty solid and fun to play, on top of that its super fluffy to the nightlords tactics so it scratches a lot of itches.

 

im gonna wait for the codex though to see what changes.

[Aothaine]

Other than counter psykers, is there any reliable way to survive this relatively scary combo a friend of mine plans in fielding: 

 

1) Throw some tanky units on your flanks.

2) Put Chaff on your flanks.

3) lock all units up in vehicles if he has first turn

4) Strategem with counter-attack so you get to attack right after he does and just focus down his character or unit that has not attacked yet

[LutherMax]

The Warp Time on 'deep striking' units is a bit ambiguous...

 

Deployment rule says:

 

Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive

Which leads me to believe Warp Time cannot be used because it references the whole turn (which includes the Movement and Psychic phases.

 

But then it goes on to say:

 

their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield

Whereas Warp Time happens in the Psychic phase – so does that validate it..?

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Chaos player is doing it right. Warp time forward and charge from reserve is valid RAW and RAI in my opinion.

Night Lords are skerry *nod.

Be glad Bezerkers don't come with jump packs.

 

Aothaine has it covered.

 

Cheap scouts at 55 points with shotguns for playing board control and duck hunt.

Storm Shields is something chaos cannot do. Talons & Plasma lose some bite when you are rocking SS on your veterans.

Vehicles are good advice. Razorbacks are something chaos cannot do.

Make em eat flame thrower overwatch then ting tang with lots of str4 attacks.

 

Maybe go second with your own plasma pistol drop teams and play Spaghetti Western music is by far the most fun tho... Who can wait another turn to come in.

 

Never lose hope =) Don't let em terrorize ya.

Remember that BA can do basically the same thing (without the one unit warp shenanigans) and at +1 strength with a Priest. Str 5 lightning claws are better can openers I'm thinking.

Edited July 7, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[Quixus]

Never lose hope =) Don't let em terrorize ya.

Remember that BA can do basically the same thing (without the one unit warp shenanigans) and at +1 strength with a Priest. Str 5 lightning claws are better can openers I'm thinking.

What do BA get to actually make the 9+" charge? Damage output IMHO is much less an issue than the random charge range.

 

@LutherMax: It is an interaction of general and specific rules. Unfortunately GW never actually says how that is to work or which rules are more specific than others, but then again if it didn't work as specific trumping general most of the rules would not work at all.

[Aothaine]

 

What do BA get to actually make the 9+" charge? Damage output IMHO is much less an issue than the random charge range.

 

Currently? I know of two things. Magna Grapple and Lemartes. It is not much but until our codex drops it is what we have. Otherwise we need to brace for impact then charge. This, along with a few other things is why DC are having so many issues right now that they are nearly unusable when not coming out of a transport. They are squishy but can be very deadly when buffs are stacked on them. But it is also a huge investment and there are other more reliable units right now.

 

I would say do something like this:

 

Stormhawk 

- Death Company Dreadnought (Furioso Fists)

- Veteran Company (Plasma Guns + Storm Shields)

- Techmarine

- Chaplin in Terminator Armour

- Sanguinary Priest + Plasma Pistol

- Librarian in Terminator Armour

 

Then have two separate units of Assault Terminators (TH+SS) drop down on the flanks of the Vet Company. This will take up a lot of your 2k points but the bubbles it provides and the units involved are pretty scary. I would say use the rest of the points to setup Tac/scout squads for rapid diployment and securing objectives

 

Tac + Heavy Flamer + Melta/Plasma guns

Scouts + Sniper Riflesx4 + Missile Launchers

[Maakeff]

I'm going to try out a different build than thunder hammers for a squad of 5 Death Company with jump packs, aiming for a little more versatility here - power fists and chainswords (losing the 3W from a hammer down to D3W from the fist), but gaining an extra attack with which to be more effective against larger/weaker units, at the same points cost. Not sure if the trade off is worth it... but the versatility may be useful in a competitive environment.

[Aothaine]

I'm going to try out a different build than thunder hammers for a squad of 5 Death Company with jump packs, aiming for a little more versatility here - power fists and chainswords (losing the 3W from a hammer down to D3W from the fist), but gaining an extra attack with which to be more effective against larger/weaker units, at the same points cost. Not sure if the trade off is worth it... but the versatility may be useful in a competitive environment.

 

This can work. I also saw a post here where someone was tooling his DC to shred hordes by giving them two chainswords. 5 attacks each on the charge with that setup. Toss 10 of them in a landraider or stormraven and give them a chappy & priest. Have fun eating that charge with 50 S5 attacks that reroll all misses and use ld 9. Then you add in the chappy and priest w/ thunder hammer and the unit is pretty boss. Still fragile but pretty damn good.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Aothaine

[NTaW]

Can DC even take two chainswords? By my reading they can't but I may have missed something.

[Karhedron]

What are our best tools to deal with flyers? Looking for units that can be "Blood Angels" chapter.

Shooting is still fairly effective against Flyers. If you want something more direct, Flyers can be assaulted by other units with the "Fly" keyword meaning our assorted Jump Pack units are quite effective at bringing aerial opponents down to earth.

[Maakeff]

Pretty sure they can't (DC taking 2 chainswords), sadly. My plan for non-jump Death Company is indeed 15 of them but using bolters and chainswords. Chuck them all in a Storm Eagle (which we can now take!!!) along with a Chaplain, Corbulo, Librarian, and The Sanguinor... and chuckle when they charge (or cry when it gets shot down). I'd love to get a Primaris Lieutenant in the mix for extra lulz... maybe one day. :-) Edited July 8, 2017 by Maakeff

[Aothaine]

This is big simply because it's the initial one, hence all the generalisations. People are more than welcome to create their own discussions that we can add to our Resources page, something which is already filling up with excellent content.

 

Feel free to contribute

 

Did you not want me to create the primer then? You're the vet here I'll follow your decision Jolemai.

[Aothaine]

Pretty sure they can't (DC taking 2 chainswords), sadly. My plan for non-jump Death Company is indeed 15 of them but using bolters and chainswords. Chuck them all in a Storm Eagle (which we can now take!!!) along with a Chaplain, Corbulo, Librarian, and The Sanguinor... and chuckle when they charge (or cry when it gets shot down). I'd love to get a Primaris Lieutenant in the mix for extra lulz... maybe one day. :-)

 

Ohhhh snap! You are right. Man I missed that big time!

[Jolemai]

 

This is big simply because it's the initial one, hence all the generalisations. People are more than welcome to create their own discussions that we can add to our Resources page, something which is already filling up with excellent content.

 

Feel free to contribute

 

Did you not want me to create the primer then? You're the vet here I'll follow your decision Jolemai.

 

 

It's your free time and you can do whatever you want if you think you can help others :) I'm merely pointing out that the B&C already has something in place which may save you some time and effort.

[Aothaine]

 

 

 

It's your free time and you can do whatever you want if you think you can help others I'm merely pointing out that the B&C already has something in place which may save you some time and effort.

 

 

Rgr Rgr! I'll just make sure I point that out in the future. I planned on making a quick guide with squad loadouts and costs so I can quickly builds lists for games and if it doesn't break the B&C rules I'll post that up when it is finished.

[LutherMax]

 

Pretty sure they can't (DC taking 2 chainswords), sadly. My plan for non-jump Death Company is indeed 15 of them but using bolters and chainswords. Chuck them all in a Storm Eagle (which we can now take!!!) along with a Chaplain, Corbulo, Librarian, and The Sanguinor... and chuckle when they charge (or cry when it gets shot down). I'd love to get a Primaris Lieutenant in the mix for extra lulz... maybe one day. :-)

 

 

Ohhhh snap! You are right. Man I missed that big time!

 

I'll have to put these guys back in their box then :(

 

http://www.themightybrush.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Blood-Angels-Death-Company-05.jpg

 

http://www.themightybrush.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Blood-Angels-Death-Company-04.jpg

 

http://www.themightybrush.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Forge-World-Blood-Angels-Death-Company-04.jpg

 

http://www.themightybrush.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Forge-World-Blood-Angels-Death-Company-10.jpg

Edited July 8, 2017 by LutherMax

[Crimson Ghost IX]

Power sword and chainsword is only like 4 pts more and legit.

 

Power sword and power sword is also legal it looks like but why would you other than one VERY badass looking model ^ ?

Wait for the codex before messing with those prolly.  

Awesome figs LutherMax !! You should send those pics to GW and tell them they messed up.

 

---@Quixus---

I was not infering that Blood Angels could use warp time, but rather meant the arming of the squads could be the same, even better perhaps.

 

I don't think warp time is any more game breaking single use than our powers are.

Would I love to have it = sure. Do we have it = no.

=)

Edited July 8, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[Arkhanist]

Question for you guys about rhino rush; can JP troops ignore terrain and other units when charging? Specifically, if a unit with JP was lurking behind a friendly rhino or LoS blocking terrain, could it then ignore the rhino/terrain when measuring charge distance?

 

The rules say this in the movement phase:

"If the datasheet for a model says it can Fly, it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there."

 

and then for charging:

"After any Overwatch has been resolved, roll 2D6. Each model in the charging unit can move up to this number of inches – this is their charge distance this turn."

 

But there's no specific rule in charging for units with Fly, or indeed anything about terrain and other models. So is a charge move treated as a normal move? I'm suddenly in two minds.

 

You don't need LoS to declare a charge, from the designer's commentary:

 

"Q: Can you declare charges against units that are not visible to the charging unit?

A: Yes.
Note however that the unit being charged still obeys the normal rules for targeting when it fires Overwatch, and so, if a model cannot see the charging unit, it will not be able to fire Overwatch."

 

[Crimson Ghost IX]

The folks I see playing online and all the guys I play with ignore terrain and units during the move/charge when flying.

When measuring you do NOT need to go around when you fly.  So measure straight as tho the obstacle was not there.

 

This can also take you to the top of a 4 story building or over it if need be. Just ignore the obstacle and measure straight. Then plop your fellas on top or on the other side - whatever.

It is one of the many abstractions of 8th edition.  =)

It is also not dumb like normal bikers riding up the sides of buildings last edition which they fixed this edition. Up and over with your jump pack *whoosh.

 

In my opinion until GW says something shockingly different don't worry about it and enjoy the freedom of the jump pack, jet bike, etc on the table.

So just go give them the cold steel with the chainsword man it's pretty easy to not worry about and it is not cheating *nod 

 

---

 

Furthermore as outlined in the designers notes, they cannot shoot overwatch at you if you are out of line of sight when its overwatch time (not that easy to do but it does happen sometimes).

 

Also of note is the transports that can ferry jump troops. Deploy touching 3 inches (within, not wholly within), Jump a nice 12 inches, Then shoot/charge something.

 

---

 

Jump packs are pretty great and we have a few unique units to help us use them, but assaulting without vehicles for marines generally is still difficult to pull off. Especially when you consider trying to keep all your different buff char units involved.

Stand and shoot armies have it waaaay easier.

It is nice to have a jump pack that is decent and not costed crazy (mostly).

 

Many armies benefit from fly and other assault shenanigans like the warp time we were already discussing.

Jump packs are not OP but are better.

 

Assault is almost equal to shooting now in 8th. A whole lot better than it has been in quite a long while anyhow in my opinion.

 

You absolutely must be able to do both as a Blood Angels Army to win often I'm thinking. Jump troops etc need ranged fire support etc.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Crimson Ghost IX

[LutherMax]

All sounds pretty sweet to me!

 

Where is that designers commentary note from, about line of sight and overwatch? That's pretty huge!

[Fidelius Animo]

All sounds pretty sweet to me!

 

Where is that designers commentary note from, about line of sight and overwatch? That's pretty huge!

 

It was a pre FAQ FAQ

 

 

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2017/06/18/warhammer-40000-8th-ed-designers-commentary/