8th Ed BA Tactica.

[SpaceMarineKen]

 

Hey guys, new blood angels player here! I'm just curious if a 5 man DC squad in a razorback would have enough staying power on the board. I want to put 5 with bolt pistol and chain sword in for dealing with infantry.

 

Heya !

 

Death Company are not what they used to be.

 

They are decent still (especailly against horde infantry), but mostly get killed pretty fast when it comes to taking damage on the table - but so does most everything infantry.

Trick is to hide in the transport and try and get a good round of engagement before you buy the farm with death company in this case.

 

They are rather cheap for what they can do on the charge still. The trick can be getting that charge off.

Consider a character to buff them (or better yet several units of them stepping off the rides).

 

Power Sword with priest or Power Axe and Chainsword > bolt pistol and chainsword.

A few Thunderhammers can be amazing depending on what you have planned and are fighting.

Save pistol points for troops with jump packs I feel (plasma). So you don't shoot yourself out of charge range etc.

Look at what chaplains (and others) do for them.

 

Also:

I prefer my razorbacks to sit and shoot at full BS with their long range lascannon. Not advance to the enemy to drop off DC myself. Although it's a nice option in a pinch.

Not saying my way is the best, it is just I prefer a razorback for fire support rather than transport if I am taking it currently.

 

Your Results May Vary depending on what you have planned.

Maybe a bigger squad in a Rhino, Raider, Raven tho to achieve some mass is better than 5 guys in a razorback going forward?

 

DC are one of our better unit options for tranporting forward inside something prolly. But give them some teeth.

Thanks for the insight. Basically I bought a DC box and that is it so far, I just want to kit them out properly for my needs. In all the battle reports I read it appears troops should go in some sort of transport this edition. I am trying to decide if 10 in a rhino are a bit better option than 10 with JPs. But I do like jump packs! Ha

[Riot Earp]

So, that razorback list. It can pump out a disgusting amount of shots but what is the purpose of those honor guard squads? Cheap points?

 

Also, what do you think is the best way of taking out those storm ravens? Everyone is running 3+ and I am tired of it. 

 

Thanks

I think he took them mainly to unlock the deticated transports.

[dakkamasta]

Lemartes is a decent option for jump pack Death Company. I found the best way to run him is alongside minimum 3 MSU squads with bolters, chainswords and a hammer in each. If you have the points a DC dread in a lucius pod landing nearby would also be good. Come down, fire all the bolters at a unit you don't plan to charge, then charge what you want with rerolls from Lemartes. The reason I recommend MSU is so that if a charge fails it won't be that bad. You really only need 1-2 squads to make it in to do some damage, Lemartes can do some decent damage too.

[Sawtooth]

Interesting to read some of this regarding characters. I have been keeping my Sanguinary Priests barebones and standing them behind my squads to use their buffs and heal without risking them in combat. I thought I was perhapsody insane for doing so :p

[Jolemai]

Lemartes is a decent option for jump pack Death Company. I found the best way to run him is alongside minimum 3 MSU squads with bolters, chainswords and a hammer in each. If you have the points a DC dread in a lucius pod landing nearby would also be good. Come down, fire all the bolters at a unit you don't plan to charge, then charge what you want with rerolls from Lemartes. The reason I recommend MSU is so that if a charge fails it won't be that bad. You really only need 1-2 squads to make it in to do some damage, Lemartes can do some decent damage too.

That's actually the route I'm going down with my revamped-for-8th 1250 list. You don't get much change mind.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I have started my first Vanguard Vet squad of 8th. It's going to be pricey with T/H S/S combos with jump packs. I'm thinking they will be a good MSU shock unit to crash into T7+ I feel I need to go with multiple squads though, and that gets a little pricey.

 

Looking at an all comers list though, I wouldn't hate taking 3 squads with one being more infantry dedicated.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[CrimsonExarch]

I wouldn't invest too heavily in Razorbacks for some time. I have a sneaky suspicion they are going to see a nerf in some shape or form very soon.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I wouldn't invest too heavily in Razorbacks for some time. I have a sneaky suspicion they are going to see a nerf in some shape or form very soon.

I think that it is going to be fine. We've been talking about it. if you have spent the $1100-$1300 For the spam list I tip my hat to you. That in itself is a big enough nerf. If you already have accumulated that type of goodies, then I also tip my hat to ya.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Dont-Be-Haten

[Karhedron]

I wouldn't invest too heavily in Razorbacks for some time. I have a sneaky suspicion they are going to see a nerf in some shape or form very soon.

I would not worry too much. Blood Angels will continue to use the Index list for the time being, even after the vanilla SM Codex drops. Also the Marine codex is coming quite soon so I doubt the points value and stats in there will differ drastically from the Index list (at least for basic units) as they will not have access to significantly more playtest data than they did for the Index lists.

[Riot Earp]

I think there are many people hording rhinos razorbacks and of course drop pods. 

So it woulnd be a thing for the gladius strike froce player to field 5+ Razors.

[Ceril]

 

I wouldn't invest too heavily in Razorbacks for some time. I have a sneaky suspicion they are going to see a nerf in some shape or form very soon.

I would not worry too much. Blood Angels will continue to use the Index list for the time being, even after the vanilla SM Codex drops. Also the Marine codex is coming quite soon so I doubt the points value and stats in there will differ drastically from the Index list (at least for basic units) as they will not have access to significantly more playtest data than they did for the Index lists.

Does the SM codex overwrite the index units? So we use SM codex+index for BA specific?

[DemonGSides]

 

 

I wouldn't invest too heavily in Razorbacks for some time. I have a sneaky suspicion they are going to see a nerf in some shape or form very soon.

I would not worry too much. Blood Angels will continue to use the Index list for the time being, even after the vanilla SM Codex drops. Also the Marine codex is coming quite soon so I doubt the points value and stats in there will differ drastically from the Index list (at least for basic units) as they will not have access to significantly more playtest data than they did for the Index lists.

Does the SM codex overwrite the index units? So we use SM codex+index for BA specific?

 

 

Any datasheets that are in codex's will overwrite Index entries until new index's are printed (I wouldn't be shocked if we get yearly or bi-yearly indexes that are a repository for all data sheets for a faction so that if stores/clubs want to have a one stop shop, we get them that way), so it could end up that, if we do in fact get a codex before year's end, you'll need both index and Codex: BA.

 

I wouldn't expect Codex's to have a ton of basic unit's that all Space Marines factions share, like tacticals and devastators.  I'm guessing it'll have some specific units, and then modifications and rules to add to units that otherwise don't get changed.  Their article about it goes into it way more.

[Arkhanist]

 

Does the SM codex overwrite the index units? So we use SM codex+index for BA specific?

 

 

Yes, and no.

 

"If I have a Blood Angels, Dark Angels or Space Wolves army, will I need to buy Codex: Space Marines to use my army?

You don’t have to. Other Space Marines factions not covered in the new codex will continue to use all the datasheets, rules and points values in the index until their own codex is released. Rules for new models not covered in the index (like the upcoming Redemptor Dreadnought) will be available in the box with the model and matched play points for these units will be made available online."

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/05/codexes-your-questions-answered-july-5gw-homepage-post-2/

 

That said:

"Can I combine units from the index and a codex into one army?

The datasheets in the new codexes overwrite the same datasheets in the index books. You can certainly use units with updated datasheets alongside units from the index that have yet to be updated. Once a unit has been covered in the codex though, we assume you’re using the latest version."

 

So if you were mixing say, Ultramarines into your army, the Ultramarines would use the datasheets and points from the codex; but anything with Blood Angels as chapter would use the datasheet and points from the index, even if they're nominally the same unit. Which is... odd, but the only way I can square these two statements.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Arkhanist

[olcottr]

Jump Pack strategy:

 

1 Shoot

2 Charge

3 Fight

4 Fight

5 Fall Back

6 Repeat 1-5

[The4thHorseman]

Am I understanding the Tarantula Forge World unit correctly? x3 Tarantulas with twin Assault Cannons for a total of 129 points?

 

That's (36) S6, AP1 shots hitting on 4+, wounding MEQ on 3+? 12 wounds average per turn? The turrets have (4) wounds each, with no degradation from early wounds.

 

You could potentially exercise a lot of board control against many different opponents for a modest investment of points. A potential counter to mob assaults?

 

The Tarantula unit has the <chapter> keyword, so can possibly accept some buffs?

 

The twin assault cannon variant of Tarantula has no description of that variant's behavior from the Automated Artillery rule, unlike those carrying Heavy Bolters or twin Lascannons. Does this mean the TAC version can target Infantry or Non-Infantry at-will?

 

Yea Tarantulas are pretty OP for their cost. If you look at 7th ed version of the rules it states that thr MM version must Target Vehicles or Monsters Creatures. For TAC we have to look to the HH version. HH version states that HB, HF, Roto Cannon Must Target Non- Vehicles. So basically Infantry first then when theres none of that you can Target Anything else starting with closest.

 

There is one snag I've run into with the Tarantula. Is in its Deployment. Its kind of a grey area wether or not you can set it up on floors higher than the ground level of Ruins, due to the Keywords. This Grey Area also applies to Rapier Carriages. Other than that, they are awesome at mulching Hordes.

 

They can be affected by buffs, however my experience, a cheap captain for Misses Rerolls, is the only thing worth taking due to AC being Str 6 and you usually wounding on 2s or 3s for most infantry.

 

I submitted the question about deploying in ruins to FW, but no answer yet.

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by The4thHorseman

[Gingerninja]

Good evening

 

I´m almost completely new to 40k and just started a Blood Angels army. And so I also joined this forum.

 

I´ve been reading this forum the last couple of months and been learning a lot.

So far i´ve played a couple of smaller games and thought i share my thoughts and also to get an answer to a question.

 

Lessons learned:

- As so many others already said, the Stormraven is awesome! But it can be focused down so i have waited to turn 2 before going in dropping of the Dread. The disadvantage of this is you get the full dakka of the SR on turn 2 and the dread comes in play in turn 3.

- I play with 8 DC with 4 TH and 4 chainswords buffed with a Sang Priest and a Chaplain/Astorath for re-roll. I found out that the 9" charge is to risky, and you risk of getting outside of the 6" from the characters. The characters and a charge is important to get the most out of my DC unit. Because of this i almost always start with them on the table.

 

Question:

Does the plus 1 strength buff from the Priest applies before or after the x2 str on the TH?

 

Plans for the future:

So its already time to expand my army and since flyers seems to be strong, i´m planing on adding a Fire Raptor and a Xiphon. I then feel a have a well rounded air detachment that quickly moves around the table so that i´m able to concentrated my firepower against a smaller part of the enemy army and also minimize the amount of incoming damage against the expensive fliers.

 

Ground component vise i´m looking at a Vanguard squad with TH/SS and Company Vet squad with combi meltas/SS, both with JP. I then also plan on adding a JP Librarian.

I then feel i present a broad variety of threats for my opponent to deal with, and a pretty fast army to quickly be able to concentrate the firepower on whatever i consider being the biggest threat or the weakest point.

 

What do you guys think? Does my future plan lack ground components or any other major flaws?

Edited July 13, 2017 by Gingerninja

[Boudan]

I played a small game tonight (my second of the edition) and have the following observations.

 

1) Razorbacks are excellently priced considering their utility.

 

2) LC/SS Veteran Squads seem to pair excellently with Corbulo and a Captain. I tried 4x Vets + the aforementioned characters, and ran them into the thick of battle, the squad Razorback's twin AC and storm bolter a-blazing. Good results against a Nurgle Demon army.

 

3) Relatedly, delivering your buffing characters to strategically-vital positions is a big part of this game! I had several dozen re-rolls tonight in part due to some considered placement of certain models.

 

4) As other, wiser Frater have spoken, Corbulo is a great unit for the price.

 

5) Sniper scouts will never be left off my list again.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Boudan

[OrbOfAntioch]

Going off of the Tempestus "Alpha-Ally" theme (2k) I've made a list using IG as Apha and BA as stationary and mobile gunline..

 

Batallion Detachment

Tempestor Prime, Rod

Tempestor Rrime, Rod

5x Tempestus Command, 4x Plasma Rifles

5x Tempestus Command, 4x Plasma Rifles

5x Scions, 2 Plasma Rifles, Plasma Pistol

5x Scions, 2 Plasma Rifles, Plasma Pistol

Commissar

46x Conscripts

 

Spearhead Detachment

Captain, PAxe

Rapier Quad Bolter

Rapier Quad Bolter

Rapier Quad Bolter

Storm Raven, Dakka Loadout

 

Vanguard Detachment

Corbulo

5x DC, 3TH

5x VV, 3SS 3TH

Relic Deredeo, Anvillus, T-HB

Razorback, Twin AC

Razorback, Twin AC

Predator, Predator Auto, 2x Las

 

Strategy

-Conscripts + Commissar bubble up the predator and rapiers with captain/deredeo doing a little buffing

-Razorbacks with DCs/VVs + Corbulo stay nearby for fire support/counter charge

-Tempestus jump in to kill elite targets with plasma overload

-Stormraven zip around to support Tempestus as a mobile firebase

 

What do you guys think...?

[Maakeff]

Question:

Does the plus 1 strength buff from the Priest applies before or after the x2 str on the TH?

 

Plans for the future:

So its already time to expand my army and since flyers seems to be strong, i´m planing on adding a Fire Raptor and a Xiphon. I then feel a have a well rounded air detachment that quickly moves around the table so that i´m able to concentrated my firepower against a smaller part of the enemy army and also minimize the amount of incoming damage against the expensive fliers.

 

Ground component vise i´m looking at a Vanguard squad with TH/SS and Company Vet squad with combi meltas/SS, both with JP. I then also plan on adding a JP Librarian.

I then feel i present a broad variety of threats for my opponent to deal with, and a pretty fast army to quickly be able to concentrate the firepower on whatever i consider being the biggest threat or the weakest point.

 

What do you guys think? Does my future plan lack ground components or any other major flaws?

In answer to your question, I understand that you multiply/divide first, then add/subtract. It was certainly that way in the previous version of the rules, and I am told in this edition it is covered in a sidebar somewhere in the rulebook (not within the free downloadable rules PDF though) - and I'm sorry to say I've yet to verify this personally, although I intend to do so.

 

As for force expansion... if you're considering a Fire Raptor and a Xiphon, also consider a Storm Eagle - because it can carry 20 infantry instead of the 12+Dread that the Stormraven does, is a touch more resilient, and has it's own pretty significant firepower. :-) For me at least, Blood Angels are very much about infantry and close combat... and the Storm Eagle can carry the most Space Marine infantry while not being a Lord of War, and it also fits in the theme of aerial attack that again is part and parcel of the Blood Angels.

 

It's also worth considering possibly using Lemartes over Astorath/Chaplain if you are having issues with charge distances, as he allows the Death Company to re-roll that. :-)

 

Finally, have a look and see how many points a unit of 5 Assault Marines with jump packs, 2 melta guns, and maybe a plasma pistol on the sergeant for range synergy costs in points compared to the Company Veterans you are planning. You might find that it works out for you, and extra bodies might be worth more in terms of survival /points efficiency than having storm shields.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Maakeff

[Spagunk]

 

Question:

Does the plus 1 strength buff from the Priest applies before or after the x2 str on the TH?

 

Plans for the future:

So its already time to expand my army and since flyers seems to be strong, i´m planing on adding a Fire Raptor and a Xiphon. I then feel a have a well rounded air detachment that quickly moves around the table so that i´m able to concentrated my firepower against a smaller part of the enemy army and also minimize the amount of incoming damage against the expensive fliers.

 

Ground component vise i´m looking at a Vanguard squad with TH/SS and Company Vet squad with combi meltas/SS, both with JP. I then also plan on adding a JP Librarian.

I then feel i present a broad variety of threats for my opponent to deal with, and a pretty fast army to quickly be able to concentrate the firepower on whatever i consider being the biggest threat or the weakest point.

 

What do you guys think? Does my future plan lack ground components or any other major flaws?

In answer to your question, I understand that you multiply/divide first, then add/subtract. It was certainly that way in the previous version of the rules, and I am told in this edition it is covered in a sidebar somewhere in the rulebook (not within the free downloadable rules PDF though) - and I'm sorry to say I've yet to verify this personally, although I intend to do so.

...

 

 

Page 175 of the rule book, right side bar. I found it myself on accident.

[Charlo]

 

Question:

Does the plus 1 strength buff from the Priest applies before or after the x2 str on the TH?

 

Plans for the future:

So its already time to expand my army and since flyers seems to be strong, i´m planing on adding a Fire Raptor and a Xiphon. I then feel a have a well rounded air detachment that quickly moves around the table so that i´m able to concentrated my firepower against a smaller part of the enemy army and also minimize the amount of incoming damage against the expensive fliers.

 

Ground component vise i´m looking at a Vanguard squad with TH/SS and Company Vet squad with combi meltas/SS, both with JP. I then also plan on adding a JP Librarian.

I then feel i present a broad variety of threats for my opponent to deal with, and a pretty fast army to quickly be able to concentrate the firepower on whatever i consider being the biggest threat or the weakest point.

 

What do you guys think? Does my future plan lack ground components or any other major flaws?

In answer to your question, I understand that you multiply/divide first, then add/subtract. It was certainly that way in the previous version of the rules, and I am told in this edition it is covered in a sidebar somewhere in the rulebook (not within the free downloadable rules PDF though) - and I'm sorry to say I've yet to verify this personally, although I intend to do so.

 

As for force expansion... if you're considering a Fire Raptor and a Xiphon, also consider a Storm Eagle - because it can carry 20 infantry instead of the 12+Dread that the Stormraven does, is a touch more resilient, and has it's own pretty significant firepower. :-) For me at least, Blood Angels are very much about infantry and close combat... and the Storm Eagle can carry the most Space Marine infantry while not being a Lord of War, and it also fits in the theme of aerial attack that again is part and parcel of the Blood Angels.

 

It's also worth considering possibly using Lemartes over Astorath/Chaplain if you are having issues with charge distances, as he allows the Death Company to re-roll that. :-)

 

Finally, have a look and see how many points a unit of 5 Assault Marines with jump packs, 2 melta guns, and maybe a plasma pistol on the sergeant for range synergy costs in points compared to the Company Veterans you are planning. You might find that it works out for you, and extra bodies might be worth more in terms of survival /points efficiency than having storm shields.

 

The Storm eagle is VERY interesting, especially now multiple units can go into the same transport. Before that 20 capacity was pretty much wasted. Now you can load it up with a few squads of foot DC, Tacs and various supporting characters.

 

2 Twin Lascannons, a Twin Multi Melta and a Vengeance Launcher makes it enough dakka to rival the Raven too.

 

On CV vs RAS survivability, I think the 3++ shield wins out every time unless you are facing AP0 weapons.

[Maakeff]

 

 

 

Question:

Does the plus 1 strength buff from the Priest applies before or after the x2 str on the TH?

 

Plans for the future:

So its already time to expand my army and since flyers seems to be strong, i´m planing on adding a Fire Raptor and a Xiphon. I then feel a have a well rounded air detachment that quickly moves around the table so that i´m able to concentrated my firepower against a smaller part of the enemy army and also minimize the amount of incoming damage against the expensive fliers.

 

Ground component vise i´m looking at a Vanguard squad with TH/SS and Company Vet squad with combi meltas/SS, both with JP. I then also plan on adding a JP Librarian.

I then feel i present a broad variety of threats for my opponent to deal with, and a pretty fast army to quickly be able to concentrate the firepower on whatever i consider being the biggest threat or the weakest point.

 

What do you guys think? Does my future plan lack ground components or any other major flaws?

In answer to your question, I understand that you multiply/divide first, then add/subtract. It was certainly that way in the previous version of the rules, and I am told in this edition it is covered in a sidebar somewhere in the rulebook (not within the free downloadable rules PDF though) - and I'm sorry to say I've yet to verify this personally, although I intend to do so.

 

As for force expansion... if you're considering a Fire Raptor and a Xiphon, also consider a Storm Eagle - because it can carry 20 infantry instead of the 12+Dread that the Stormraven does, is a touch more resilient, and has it's own pretty significant firepower. :-) For me at least, Blood Angels are very much about infantry and close combat... and the Storm Eagle can carry the most Space Marine infantry while not being a Lord of War, and it also fits in the theme of aerial attack that again is part and parcel of the Blood Angels.

 

It's also worth considering possibly using Lemartes over Astorath/Chaplain if you are having issues with charge distances, as he allows the Death Company to re-roll that. :-)

 

Finally, have a look and see how many points a unit of 5 Assault Marines with jump packs, 2 melta guns, and maybe a plasma pistol on the sergeant for range synergy costs in points compared to the Company Veterans you are planning. You might find that it works out for you, and extra bodies might be worth more in terms of survival /points efficiency than having storm shields.

The Storm eagle is VERY interesting, especially now multiple units can go into the same transport. Before that 20 capacity was pretty much wasted. Now you can load it up with a few squads of foot DC, Tacs and various supporting characters.

 

2 Twin Lascannons, a Twin Multi Melta and a Vengeance Launcher makes it enough dakka to rival the Raven too.

 

On CV vs RAS survivability, I think the 3++ shield wins out every time unless you are facing AP0 weapons.

Perhaps, but for the points of a 5 man Assault Squad with the loadout I mentioned, you only get 3 Company Vets with jump pack/storm shield/melta or combi-meltas. Weighing up 5x 3+ armour save wounds (with limited extra firepower from the non-melta-equipped marines) vs 3x 3+ invul save wounds is not quite as clear cut. There's certainly a place for both, I feel.

[Tonius]

Hi Brothers,

 

Back in 40k after à Long Time, I'm building up the 500 pts to reach 2000pts and I have a question regarding support:

I hesitate between a classic Land Raider and a Stormraven gunship.

In my opinion the pros for LR are a better ability to endure and survive, a dangerous firepower

For the Stormraven the pros are the ability to transport a Dreadnought and the higher versatility of its weapons.

 

I love both minis, so if you have any advice I'd be gratefull.

[Maakeff]

Hi Brothers,

 

Back in 40k after à Long Time, I'm building up the 500 pts to reach 2000pts and I have a question regarding support:

I hesitate between a classic Land Raider and a Stormraven gunship.

In my opinion the pros for LR are a better ability to endure and survive, a dangerous firepower

For the Stormraven the pros are the ability to transport a Dreadnought and the higher versatility of its weapons.

 

I love both minis, so if you have any advice I'd be gratefull.

I'd go Stormraven. While the LR has a little more toughness and wounds, the Stormraven has the -1 to be shot at - so the survivability is closer than it might look. That with the greater mobility, flexibility of firepower on one platform, and how Blood Angels love flying, seals the deal for me. :-) Having said that, I am possessed of a certain bias because I personally love flying over being on the ground, so that probably colours my views at least a little. :-)

[Remtek]

Main issue with Land Raider in my experience is getting assaulted/piled in on so you cannot shoot the next turn. Stormraven can only be assaulted by units with the 'fly' keyboard, and can also disengage and shoot. But it's not that unlikely that the SR will receive a nerf. It' really depends on the rest of your list as well. You can put jump infantry in the LR as well now :)