8th Ed BA Tactica.

[NTaW]

Worth stressing that Flyers are destroyed if they move off the board :/

 

Move on the board and move in squares as per seventh then?

Don't our Stormravens still have a hover type movement?

[JamesI]

How do people feel about Sanguinary guard in the new edition?  Are they worth the points, seem rather expensive now.  I feel like I would rather take DC, Vanguard or Company Veterans for my elite jumpy needs 

 

I almost feel like Plasma Pistols are mandatory on them with plasma being cheaper than Angelus Bolters.

[JamesI]

 

Worth stressing that Flyers are destroyed if they move off the board :/

 

Move on the board and move in squares as per seventh then?

Don't our Stormravens still have a hover type movement?

 

Yes, which is now up to 20 inches.

[durdle-durdle]

How do people feel about Sanguinary guard in the new edition? Are they worth the points, seem rather expensive now. I feel like I would rather take DC, Vanguard or Company Veterans for my elite jumpy needs

 

I almost feel like Plasma Pistols are mandatory on them with plasma being cheaper than Angelus Bolters.

Well, imo, I'll be using them as follows

 

Death co: assaulting chaff units

Company vets: special weapons

Vanguard vets: assaulting chaff units but carrying lots of special pistols

Sanguinary guard: attacking multiwound creatures/characters (plasma is the best gun imo)

[JamesI]

Sounds about right.  Sang guard need multiwound targets to be worth it.

[Brother_Angelus]

I almost feel like Plasma Pistols are mandatory on them with plasma being cheaper than Angelus Bolters.

I really can't understand why this is the case. They've gone to the effort of fragmenting wargear down to single digit point costs, but made a clearly superior weapon cheaper than the old 'base' armament. It's non-nonsensical.

[durdle-durdle]

 

 

I almost feel like Plasma Pistols are mandatory on them with plasma being cheaper than Angelus Bolters.

I really can't understand why this is the case. They've gone to the effort of fragmenting wargear down to single digit point costs, but made a clearly superior weapon cheaper than the old 'base' armament. It's non-nonsensical.

Yeah, I think he slightly overestimated the worth of the angelus bolters. If they had the full range of a bolter, maybe worth 9 points each. My guess would be about 5 each. At that price point, I would heavily debate whether to take a pistol or the bolter for more shots.

 

I also wish the inferno pistol were either cheaper or had 9" range. As is, other than Dante, I'll likely never take one.

 

And hand flamers are hot garbage right now.

[dakkamasta]

How do people feel about Sanguinary guard in the new edition?  Are they worth the points, seem rather expensive now.  I feel like I would rather take DC, Vanguard or Company Veterans for my elite jumpy needs 

 

I almost feel like Plasma Pistols are mandatory on them with plasma being cheaper than Angelus Bolters.

 

I actually came up with a nice little combo for a solid, take on all threats assault force for about 1000-ish pts (intended to not be the whole list, but the assaulty half of a 2000 or more point list).

 

Sanguinary Priest with jump pack

w/ power sword (or any other weapon), bolt pistol

 

Sanguinary Guard Ancient 

w/ encarmine sword, plasma pistol

 

2x 4 Sanguinary Guard (or take 1 unit of 8-10 if you prefer)

w/ 3 encarmine swords, 1 axe (or fist), plasma pistols

 

2x 8-10 Death Company or 10 Vanguard Veterans or 10 Assault Marines

w/ (DC) 1-2 fists/hammers, a few power swords sprinkled in, jump packs

w/ (VV) power swords everywhere, melta bomb, maybe some storm shields and pistols

w/ (ASM) 2 flamers, power sword (or other weapon), combi-flamer, melta bomb, eviscerators if you like (I wouldn't take them, too expensive imo for 1 attack hitting on a 4+)

 

 

The plan is make the Priest your warlord. Now all the SG including the Ancient reroll ALL their hits (start supercharging those plasma pistols), are immune to morale and are strength 5. It also gives the priest a good use for his narthecium since he can bring back fallen SG or heal a wounded one. Keep everything within 6 of the priest and the ancient so morale is no longer an issue and everyone is strength 5. I think the DC fit the best here since the SG can deal with high armour, multi-wound units whilst the DC can clear out any chaff that will slow the SG down. Plus fists/hammers for monsters/vehicles. The Assault Marines could do well here too by spamming flamers at mass infantry (remember with the 'fly' rule you can leave combat and flame the target again, just can't charge).

 

This with the right fire support could make for a very solid mid-field assault force. It's large enough so that a single assault unit would be weary to challenge it, and with no morale problems and multiple units it should theoretically weather a serious amount of fire.

 

Also it would look epic.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

 

 

I almost feel like Plasma Pistols are mandatory on them with plasma being cheaper than Angelus Bolters.

I really can't understand why this is the case. They've gone to the effort of fragmenting wargear down to single digit point costs, but made a clearly superior weapon cheaper than the old 'base' armament. It's non-nonsensical.

Yeah, I think he slightly overestimated the worth of the angelus bolters. If they had the full range of a bolter, maybe worth 9 points each. My guess would be about 5 each. At that price point, I would heavily debate whether to take a pistol or the bolter for more shots.

 

I also wish the inferno pistol were either cheaper or had 9" range. As is, other than Dante, I'll likely never take one.

 

And hand flamers are hot garbage right now.

 

 

I don't have facebook but this seems like the right place to get answers: https://www.facebook.com/groups/40krulesandqueries/

 

I have a feeling nobody on the design team plays Blood Angels; everything always seems like an afterthought, hastily thrown together and greatly overestimated - through the last several versions of our rules.

 

Blood Angels are now 'special' because we can take Inferno Pistols and Hand Flamers (both totally not worth it) and our special elite units have stock guns [Angelus bolters] that are also just NOT-balanced - if balance is indeed their goal in 8th. We have dreads with (ex)flamer-template range or built for close-combat that are also pretty much useless without transports... where is the balance?

[durdle-durdle]

Back on the subject of the sanguinary guard,I think axes will probably be what I take over swords. The +1 strength means they can wound t4-5 easier (3/4 respectively) and t 8-9 on 5's not 6's. The -3 ap is great but most high value targets will have a 4-5+ invuln anyways I feel like. I'll likely drop the fist too, in this case. Hitting on 4's when I'm used to 3's is so annoying.

[Sawtooth]

Has anyone messed with Terminators of either type? With the changes to teleports and storm bolters I can see shooty terminators possibly having a role again.

[Bartali]

Has anyone messed with Terminators of either type? With the changes to teleports and storm bolters I can see shooty terminators possibly having a role again.

 

I think Tactical Terminators are probably the better of the two now as their shooting is not bad off a teleport strike. Getting to swing those fists/hammers first after an assault is a big buff for both types of Terminators too. You'll probably want a Chaplain in TDA to give those Fists/Hammers a re-roll though as hitting on 4's

[Spagunk]

 

Has anyone messed with Terminators of either type? With the changes to teleports and storm bolters I can see shooty terminators possibly having a role again.

 

I think Tactical Terminators are probably the better of the two now as their shooting is not bad off a teleport strike. Getting to swing those fists/hammers first after an assault is a big buff for both types of Terminators too. You'll probably want a Chaplain in TDA to give those Fists/Hammers a re-roll though as hitting on 4's

 

 

Also, Tactical TDA are rapid fire 2 now so 4 shots at half range. Kind of nice IMO but you're still getting -1 to hit for moving (I think???). Have to look a bit closer at TDA stats to see if they have an equivalent of relentless.

[The Unseen]

 

Also, Tactical TDA are rapid fire 2 now so 4 shots at half range. Kind of nice IMO but you're still getting -1 to hit for moving (I think???). Have to look a bit closer at TDA stats to see if they have an equivalent of relentless.

 

 

Only heavy weapons suffer the -1 penalty for moving. Combi/storm Bolters are Rapid Fire.

[Spagunk]

 

 

Also, Tactical TDA are rapid fire 2 now so 4 shots at half range. Kind of nice IMO but you're still getting -1 to hit for moving (I think???). Have to look a bit closer at TDA stats to see if they have an equivalent of relentless.

 

 

Only heavy weapons suffer the -1 penalty for moving. Combi/storm Bolters are Rapid Fire.

 

I see. Don't have the book and what was leaked was too much for me to remember all at once. Thanks for the clarification.

[Kobrakei]

Please don't murder me for this, but how are people working out that plasma is cheaper than the Angelus Bolter? It states in the entry that you have to replace the bolter with the pistol, but you need to pay the points for the bolter in order to have a weapon to replace with the pistol, as the bolter is a standard armament. That's how I read it anyway.

[durdle-durdle]

Please don't murder me for this, but how are people working out that plasma is cheaper than the Angelus Bolter? It states in the entry that you have to replace the bolter with the pistol, but you need to pay the points for the bolter in order to have a weapon to replace with the pistol, as the bolter is a standard armament. That's how I read it anyway.

You don't have to pay for the bolter AND THEN the pistol. You just replace the bolter with the pistol and pay for the pistol instead.

[Jolemai]

The Datasheet entry is for games that use Power Level. When opting for Matched Play, you follow the points chart at the back which states that a SG is 22 points without wargear - you then add in the equipment to make the model(s) legal (plasma is 7, angelus is 9 plus whatever melee weapon you chose)

 

... that's how I understand it anyway.

 

Just a public service announcement folks: once these books go live you can no longer type out the points values!

[Kobrakei]

That's true, I just wanted to check. Bit odd really, but it's one of those weird things that slips through sometimes.

[Charlo]

SG seem pretty good and have a nice set of buffs ripe for taking advantage of across the army.

 

Not to mention they can get first turn charges pretty easily, that even if they don't make have some nice firepower. If you drop them down and the buff characters behind them, the characters can't be targetted and if they SG are assaulted, they will pile in with heroic intervention (as we BA are want to do from time to time ;) )

 

Inferno/ Plasma pistols are so great though, as if the enemy charges you and you hold, you're then shooting them in the face before you start chopping them up.

 

Glaives are solid weapons now too IMO, the D3 damage on them will soon add up against similar to bigger targets.

 

-1Ld from a Death Mask is also a big deal in this edition with Battleshock.

[Bartali]

On the SG and their Plasma Pistols - if we roll a one for the overcharge, does a re-roll (Heirs Of Azkaellon) then cancel it out (as long as we don't roll one again) ?

[Charlo]

On the SG and their Plasma Pistols - if we roll a one for the overcharge, does a re-roll (Heirs Of Azkaellon) then cancel it out (as long as we don't roll one again) ?

 

Yep as for all intents and purposes it hasn't happened.

 

Just like previous edition and preferred enemy, BS 6 etc etc.

[Bartali]

Thanks, just wanted to check. 

 

SG are pretty nasty now with the right buffs - I think a Sang Priest as warlord helps them out quite a bit, and you'll need to burn a command point on the assault distance re-roll. Dropping in with Supercharged Plasma Pistols is the icing on the cake.

[Xenith]

My 5x plasma pistol Sanguinary Guard unit just confirms I have the foresight of Corublo.

 

And just proves that everything will be useful in some iteration of the rules. 

 

Heirs of Azkellon letting me reroll the gets hot from overcharged shots is just gravy.

[Spagunk]

I still have a 5 man squad of SG that haven't been built yet. The one thing I worry about is unit prices swinging once our codex starts to hit. Would hate to have double priced inferno/plasma later on when I deck them all out .

 

I'm also going to have to borrow a set of legs from my planned meltagun honor guard (now company vets). Plans are definitely too fluid atm to know what will work later on so even magnetizing plasma/meltagun is a gamble. Damned Tzeenchian edition!

Edited June 5, 2017 by Spagunk