8th Ed BA Tactica.

[TheHarrower]

I watched the Frontline Gaming stream myself. I've done playtesting for Games Workshop in the past many many moons ago. Not sure how all of that works now, but when one of the dudes says they are 4-2 with one particular army, that isn't nearly enough playtesting to get things right. That's not even a close sampling. They seemed to be super enamored with "how good Blood Angels are" and were fixated on our "aura buffs". While I think aura buffs are a big component to us being successful in 8th Edition, and it does kinda hearken back to 5th Edition with our Feel No Pain bubbles, part of me feels like Blood Angels weren't represented properly in playtesting. Way too much armchair quarterback talk, and they didn't speak confidently of common builds used at tourneys or anything like that like they did with other factions.

 

Can Blood Angels throw down some crazy combos with all these auras? Absolutely, but we end up paying a ton of points for multiple characters to overlay abilities. I'm sure there is a silver bullet combination that we'll find eventually, but I highly doubt that the designers intent was to have every Blood Angel character imaginable on the field to make the army viable. Just doesn't make any sense. Like others have said, Death Company are nothing compared to Khorne. How we end up costing more than a unit that can double attack just blows my mind. Not to mention pricing Angelus Boltguns higher than a Plasma Pistol. My hope is we aren't one of the earlier Codex releases so they have time to figure it all out. Also, I hope that they get someone on the playtest team that can represent Blood Angels players.

 

In the meantime, I'll keep plugging away and trying to find that silver bullet.

[ChapelXIII]

I honestly think that if the angels boltguns were a pistol weapon rather then assault the points would make sense. As they are now I just don't see the point cost making sense.

[terminatorAM]

I've been looking at the faction key words and different character buffs and seeing some strange stuff.

 

1. Seth's buffs only affect 'Flesh Tearers' so his chapter master reroll ability can't apply to BA specific units like Death Co. or Baal Preds. However, he is the most affordable chapter master out there with this buff and might actually be useful this edition.

 

2. The vanilla Librarian powers affect 'Adaptus Astartes' units instead of a specific chapter. This makes them a great source of Lemartes' charge range reroll via "Veil of Time", only it now has a 18" range and isn't limited to just Death Co. I'm thinking a vanilla Librarian will be a requirement in any list that wants units to assault from deep strike.

 

I'll wait until I actually have the book before I build a list, but it sounds like we are a unique chapter that can reliably make first turn assaults from deep strike provided we take the right characters and jump pack units. I'll take this as a consolation prize for the Death Co. nerf and the increased process of drop pods.

[TheHarrower]

I honestly think that if the angels boltguns were a pistol weapon rather then assault the points would make sense. As they are now I just don't see the point cost making sense.

 

I agree, but I do think that people are way too enamored with pistols this edition. If you assault, you don't get to use them for 3 assault phases. By the time that comes around, you should have the enemy mostly cleared out. Not to say they won't see some use (you do get to use them after 1 assault phase if an enemy charges you and they are useful against vehicles or generally any model with high Toughness and Wounds), but I think the points for an Inferno pistol are probably spent better elsewhere. At max maybe 15 points, but I think they would be better around 10. I was super excited about twin Hand Flamers when they were dropping hints on 8th Edition, but in practice they are garbage and not worth it. If they were Strength 4 it would be a different story. Not sure why they aren't since Inferno Pistols are just Melta-guns with shorter range.

[durdle-durdle]

 

 

I honestly think that if the angels boltguns were a pistol weapon rather then assault the points would make sense. As they are now I just don't see the point cost making sense.

I agree, but I do think that people are way too enamored with pistols this edition. If you assault, you don't get to use them for 3 assault phases. By the time that comes around, you should have the enemy mostly cleared out. Not to say they won't see some use (you do get to use them after 1 assault phase if an enemy charges you and they are useful against vehicles or generally any model with high Toughness and Wounds), but I think the points for an Inferno pistol are probably spent better elsewhere. At max maybe 15 points, but I think they would be better around 10. I was super excited about twin Hand Flamers when they were dropping hints on 8th Edition, but in practice they are garbage and not worth it. If they were Strength 4 it would be a different story. Not sure why they aren't since Inferno Pistols are just Melta-guns with shorter range.

I'd be fine with s 3 hand flamers, but d3 isn't enough shots. I'd rather just have the free bolt pistol. If it were d6 or s 4 I'd be more into it.

[Nemisor]

I've been looking at the faction key words and different character buffs and seeing some strange stuff.

1. Seth's buffs only affect 'Flesh Tearers' so his chapter master reroll ability can't apply to BA specific units like Death Co. or Baal Preds. However, he is the most affordable chapter master out there with this buff and might actually be useful this edition.

Its only unique characters that cant have their key word changed. DC, Baals etc etc can all be change to flesh tearers Edited June 6, 2017 by Ageis

[Bartali]

What's peoples take on Tactical Terminators now ?

 

Storm Bolters improved to Rapid 2, get to go first with Fists* if you charge, Teleport strike means deep striking much more reliable, and 2W makes them (slightly) more durable along with a more reliable Shield of Sanguinius from a Libby. The Teleport Homer is neat gimmick too, allowing you to bounce the unit back to a homer in your deployment zone.

 

Assault Cannon seems to be the default Heavy. CML is nice, but not for that points cost. Heavy Flamer doesn't work on a 9" drop and seems kinda pointless.

 

Tactical Terminators with their guns seem a bit more flexible than Assault Terminators. You can drop and shoot light infantry with the Storm Bolters before charging Elite/MC units. Or you can drop them mid-table and shoot at 24"

 

The BA exclusive Terminator Ancient gives re-rolls on melee to hit rolls.

 

Tactical Terminators seem much improved, are they now worth taking ? I may finally get around to basing and painting my Space Hulk Terminators.

 

*Chain Fists that is, they seem a bit of a no-brainer upgrade over a regular Fist for 2pts extra. -4AP instead of -3AP, and reliable D2 instead of D1d3

Edited June 6, 2017 by Bartali

[Jolemai]

I'm a little irked that they've gone up in points and they are at -1 to hit with the heavy weapons should they move. HFs will now depend on what transport options you give them (looking at FW here mainly - but good grief FW stuff is going to be pricey). I think that they may well see more use than TDA Assault Squads.

[Charlo]

I'm a little irked that they've gone up in points and they are at -1 to hit with the heavy weapons should they move.

 

This, this, 1000x this.

 

The whole point of TDA is that it's ridiculously stable and a constantly advancing balwark that is in essense a walking tank.

 

I think GW have been far too restrictive with the move and shoot heavy weapons without penalty thing. I can just about get past it on normal tanks - but not Deads or TDA.

 

Sure Tac TDA got loads more firepower and survivability, but that -1 sucks.

 

I'm also not sure where the promised "rules to make TDA more survivable" as well as the wound increase have gone....?

[Jolemai]

I imagine that would be the armour modifers coming into play as a Terminator can now take an armour save from a lascannon (not that it's any different from previous as it's still a 5+ but sematics)

[Calistarius]

I plan on using my regular TDAs. I think it will be fun to teleport 2 squads on the opposite flank that Astorath/Lemartes and their DC jump in on. All while a Raven carrying a Libby dread and an assault squad complicate the middle.

[Charlo]

Deathwatch TDA really win out. Maximum shooty and choppy configurations among the squad plus they're "fearless". You can tank bit hits with stormshields while you let off no less than cyclone missiles, storm bolter and melta gun from 3 models.

 

If the forges of mars could figure out how to put special ammo inside a storm bolter they'd be INSANE....!

[Nova_Dew]

I thought of a great tactic that would be fluffy but the rules butcher it, 5 man Dev squad with heavy flamers and 5 man DC squad without jump packs in a rhino, everyone jumps out within about 12" of the target unit, walk up and flame everyone then the DC charge in to mop up. When i remembered the transport rules you now have to 1) sit your rhino in the open within 12" of the unit the turn before and hope they dont charge you or walk away or 2) get out the turn before and hope the unit you wanted to target doesnt move out of range of you.

 

one the plus side i think we might have the strongest anti assault army going, a mix of heavy flamer Tac and Devs on the front line with jump pack assault squads on the second line with all out jump pack equipped special units ready to counter assault.

 

All in all i think this is not the edition we all wanted but the edition that best suits the competitive US gamers that play tested it. It was balanced by them for them, yes kinda ranty but

[Jbird]

Hey guys, anyone know the rules regarding disembarking from Stormravens, do our guys have to be more than 9' away from any enemy units like when we deepstrike?

[Silverson]

Hey guys, anyone know the rules regarding disembarking from Stormravens, do our guys have to be more than 9' away from any enemy units like when we deepstrike?

 

no they don't they just need to be more than an inch away from an enemy model and disembark wholly withing 3" of any part the stormraven.

Edited June 6, 2017 by Silverson

[BloodTzar]

 

Hey guys, anyone know the rules regarding disembarking from Stormravens, do our guys have to be more than 9' away from any enemy units like when we deepstrike?

 

no they don't they just need to be more than an inch away from an enemy model and disembark wholly withing 3" of any part the stormraven.

 

You mean base right? I guess getting out 3" from wing means u end up in air :)

[Silverson]

 

 

Hey guys, anyone know the rules regarding disembarking from Stormravens, do our guys have to be more than 9' away from any enemy units like when we deepstrike?

 

no they don't they just need to be more than an inch away from an enemy model and disembark wholly withing 3" of any part the stormraven.

 

You mean base right? I guess getting out 3" from wing means u end up in air

 

 

nope i mean the storm raven(and all transports). im assuming this is meant horizontally and not factoring vertical distance at all. :) 

[Father Mapple]

Don't think I've seen anyone mention this, but it beats mentioning as it shows how so many editions of vehicles being almost the same is ingrained:

 

Any unit can shoot all it's weapons at any target it can see. You don't draw lines from weapons anymore, you just draw a straight line between models, see if there's cover, and then shoot. So the sponsons or Hull mounted weapons could shoot behind your vehicle. Not a problem.

[Jolemai]

It depends what the rules say about Flyers and/or where measurements are made from.

[Jbird]

Awesome thanks for clarifying!

[Crimson Devil]

Like others have said, Death Company are nothing compared to Khorne. How we end up costing more than a unit that can double attack just blows my mind. Not to mention pricing Angelus Boltguns higher than a Plasma Pistol.

 

IMO the Angelus Boltgun is more expensive because you can fire twice after advancing. That gives you a 25"-30" threat range. The Plasma's advantage of shooting in close combat is more situational and won't happen as often.

[Jolemai]

You say that and yet SG aren't horse archers...

 

Don't you envisage then being in combat often, or do you expect them to either kill their foe on the charge or be decimated (so no prolonged combats)?

[TheHarrower]

 

Like others have said, Death Company are nothing compared to Khorne. How we end up costing more than a unit that can double attack just blows my mind. Not to mention pricing Angelus Boltguns higher than a Plasma Pistol.

IMO the Angelus Boltgun is more expensive because you can fire twice after advancing. That gives you a 25"-30" threat range. The Plasma's advantage of shooting in close combat is more situational and won't happen as often.

That is so situational though. At best playing with odds since we hit on a 4+ that is one attack that hits. Sanguinary Guard are much safer in close combat and really to get their points back that is where they need to be. Not to mention the reroll you get from Heirs of Azkaelon makes overcharging a 1 in 36 chance of losing a model. Makes Plasma Pistols infinitely better IMHO. Technically I guess I forgot the reroll on the Angels Boltguns as well, but S4 shooting is still nothing to be afraid of. If they gave an extra attack or were pistols like someone else mentioned, that would make them more useful. As is, Plasma is the way to go.

 

As for vehicles shooting, there are no firing arcs at all. Every vehicle is treated like a 7th Edition Monstrous Creature. Both sponsons can shoot on the same side for example, and if the front of a tank tread is showing from behind a vehicle, all weapons can fire. It's really odd and probably the most difficult rule to get used to, but makes sense for balance and all that.

[TheHarrower]

So I'm officially ready to declare the Vindicator dead in 8th Edition. Totally trumped by a Predator with Lascannon Sponsons and a Predator Autocannon. Comfortably sits at 48" away dropping 2d3 shots at S7 AP-1 D 3. Plus, you get 2 Lascannons at S9 AP-3 D D6 shots. Contrast that with a tank that needs to be within 24" d3 shots at S10 AP-3 D D6. Pred is only 40 more points. Who in their right mind would take a Vindicator now?

[Calistarius]

So I'm officially ready to declare the Vindicator dead in 8th Edition. Totally trumped by a Predator with Lascannon Sponsons and a Predator Autocannon. Comfortably sits at 48" away dropping 2d3 shots at S7 AP-1 D 3. Plus, you get 2 Lascannons at S9 AP-3 D D6 shots. Contrast that with a tank that needs to be within 24" d3 shots at S10 AP-3 D D6. Pred is only 40 more points. Who in their right mind would take a Vindicator now?

Well, the demolisher cannon is d6 shots against units with 5+ models.  That d6 damage could be nice for units with 3+ wounds like TWC.  That's with optimum rolls that is...  Or maybe against something like a Tervigon that has T8 and 15+ wounds.  Just brainstorming, but I see what you mean.  The predator is so versatile in 8th so far.