Newb question about psykers in 8th.

[d3m01iti0n]

Yeah I'm not taking anything Sigismund didn't approve. But I'm looking up Inquisition rules right now, see what their anti witch tactics are.

[Marshal Wolfhart]

Eisenhorn in a crusade? With his pet daemon in tow? There won't be any more novels about him...

[d3m01iti0n]

Yeah I just meant the model itself cuz it's cool and rare.

 

However after rule study session tonight, I'm thinking about going into Assassins. Culexus obviously. Now that's nasty for the points. I didn't notice transport or infiltrate options however, so getting him close to psykers could be an issue.

[Kilamandaros]

Yes I ally in Coteaz and an Astropath, my templars definitely keep a close watch on them both but sometimes you need a witch to beat a really bad witch.

[Brother Christopher]

Yes I ally in Coteaz and an Astropath, my templars definitely keep a close watch on them both but sometimes you need a witch to beat a really bad witch.

 

Yes, the end justifies the means. But no, fighting alongside a witch (even with fancy rules in the game) reeks of heresy. Well, maybe not heresy. But this is a blatant betrayal of the Templar ways. If you really need to consider Imperial Agents as allies, why not take an Assassin?

[Kilamandaros]

 

Yes I ally in Coteaz and an Astropath, my templars definitely keep a close watch on them both but sometimes you need a witch to beat a really bad witch.

 

Yes, the end justifies the means. But no, fighting alongside a witch (even with fancy rules in the game) reeks of heresy. Well, maybe not heresy. But this is a blatant betrayal of the Templar ways. If you really need to consider Imperial Agents as allies, why not take an Assassin?

 

 

So who's piloting the Crusader ships through the warp then? Contrary to your belief BTs do not hold a complete and unequivocal intolerance of psykers, they know some serve a necessary use, they just do not trust them and would never let an honoured battle brother expose himself to the warp as librarians do.

 

I also play them in a separate unit (Inq warband) usually arriving by Valkyrie so it's not like they're side by side in battle.

[Acebaur]

 

 

Yes I ally in Coteaz and an Astropath, my templars definitely keep a close watch on them both but sometimes you need a witch to beat a really bad witch.

 

Yes, the end justifies the means. But no, fighting alongside a witch (even with fancy rules in the game) reeks of heresy. Well, maybe not heresy. But this is a blatant betrayal of the Templar ways. If you really need to consider Imperial Agents as allies, why not take an Assassin?

 

 

So who's piloting the Crusader ships through the warp then? Contrary to your belief BTs do not hold a complete and unequivocal intolerance of psykers, they know some serve a necessary use, they just do not trust them and would never let an honoured battle brother expose himself to the warp as librarians do.

 

I also play them in a separate unit (Inq warband) usually arriving by Valkyrie so it's not like they're side by side in battle.

 

 

 

You, my brother need to read the Holy Tome, written by Graham McNiell, the sacred texts of our chapter. More commonly known to those of the lesser chapters as the BT 4th Edition codex. ;)  

 

Templars have always been super intolerant of witches and mutants using only those sanctioned astropaths and navigators as required for our fleets. 

[d3m01iti0n]

I'm also sure their astropaths have bomb collars or some sort of insurance, not running about on the field where anything could go wrong. If an Inquisition even thought of landing anywhere near them with a psyker it would be ON.

 

Oh, what Templars have become since the glory days. Witches and Order 66 Clone Troopers.

[Kilamandaros]

Yes I ally in Coteaz and an Astropath, my templars definitely keep a close watch on them both but sometimes you need a witch to beat a really bad witch.

Yes, the end justifies the means. But no, fighting alongside a witch (even with fancy rules in the game) reeks of heresy. Well, maybe not heresy. But this is a blatant betrayal of the Templar ways. If you really need to consider Imperial Agents as allies, why not take an Assassin?

So who's piloting the Crusader ships through the warp then? Contrary to your belief BTs do not hold a complete and unequivocal intolerance of psykers, they know some serve a necessary use, they just do not trust them and would never let an honoured battle brother expose himself to the warp as librarians do.

I also play them in a separate unit (Inq warband) usually arriving by Valkyrie so it's not like they're side by side in battle.

You, my brother need to read the Holy Tome, written by Graham McNiell, the sacred texts of our chapter. More commonly known to those of the lesser chapters as the BT 4th Edition codex.

Templars have always been super intolerant of witches and mutants using only those sanctioned astropaths and navigators as required for our fleets.

Haha I do own that book, from my interpretation of the lore Astropaths and Inquisitors are fine, untrusted but a necessary evil, as is warp travel in general.

We are still required to follow beneath the badge of the Inquisition after all, seen most recently with Greyfax and Cadia.

[d3m01iti0n]

Lolwut? Helbrecht constant trolls the Inq about our numbers, and I'm pretty sure Grimaldus royally pissed them off preventing their squatting of the Celestial Lions. The Emperor is the only authority they recognize.

[Kilamandaros]

Sorry I disagree with you, the recent lore sets a clear precedent that even Black Templars must bow to the badge of the Inquisition when presented, even if they are a psyker like Greyfax is.

 

I for one am happy with this, Inquisition Warbands are a super awesome and fluffy unit to include in your army with lots of customisation/conversion options (admittedly less now in 8th as Crusaders/DCAs are no longer Inquisition units which really annoyed me but still...)

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Sorry I disagree with you, the recent lore sets a clear precedent that even Black Templars must bow to the badge of the Inquisition when presented, even if they are a psyker like Greyfax is.

 

I for one am happy with this, Inquisition Warbands are a super awesome and fluffy unit to include in your army with lots of customisation/conversion options (admittedly less now in 8th as Crusaders/DCAs are no longer Inquisition units which really annoyed me but still...)

 

I thought that they were merely allowing Greyfax to join them and not bowing to her every wish... and the only reason why they allowed her even though she was a psyker was because she was repentant of her mutations...

 

In that respect, Navigators and Astropaths are merely allowed on Templar ships if they are absolutely repentant of their "gifts" as well, and apparently some Templars even go to the length of punishing them or locking them away when they are not in use... this is not surprising seeing how the Imperium reacts to psykers in general...

 

In regards to Inquisition warbands, it would be fluffy if they joined a Crusade, but in my opinion, they would be closely watched by the Templars for any sign of Chaos taint and regardless of their badge of office, they would merely tolerate them and not bow to them as if they were a Primarch...

you have to remember, that regardless of how powerful Inquisitors are, Space Marines are autonomous from every branch of the Imperium except their own... unless of course if they choose to follow them like the Red Hunters.

 

edit: as proof of that, read Blood and Fire by AD-B and also parts of the 4th ed. Codex and the old Sororitas book, where Templars actually fought against forces of the Inquisition AND the Ecclesiarchy because they decided to set-up shop on a Templar Chapter Keep...

[BitsHammer]

Inquisitors have always been the "voice of fhe Emperor" in terms of authority. Only someone like Guilliman who is the Lord Commander (aka a fancy way of saying "Warmaster") could potentially compete with them in terms of authority.

 

That said, it's not like we didn't have fluff that said Inquisitors who dug too deep into the Templar chapter weren't known to go missing (likely due to the fact that the Templars are highly insular and don't need anyone digging too deep into their ways).

 

Now as for headcanon it's always been mine that the geneseed that gives our chaoter such great ZEAL is responsible for preventing us from developing any psychic powers.

 

And since we only venerate the God-Emperor now, at least we shouldn't be bowing to any psykers now. ;)

 

For the old timers who dislike the inclusion of the religious side of the army now, I personally see it as carrying on Sigismund's beliefs as he converted after meeting Keeler and took her words to such heart that he defied Dorn's orders (throwing the Iron Warrior's plans into dissarray as it let the original Crimson Fist take command instead). He was still devoutly devoted to duty but he was also clearly influenced by his beliefs as well. I can see that influencing those around him and those who followed him.

 

Hell, the Siege of Terra in their eyes during M36 may have been seen not as a fight against a dangerous cult, but rather to clean house on a the corrupt leadership that had taken over the Ministorum and twisted the Emperor's will into something to use for his own whims.

 

Then again, my view is fhat Helbrecht is a man of great zeal and fury when he fights, but is also quietly introspective (as shown to how he handled the loss of his arm by visiting the Phalanx to seek answers for himself) and coldly calculating. I think that sums up the difference between Templars and the nutters of Khorne: the mind behind the zeal and fury isn't one of blind hatred and wrath but one of calm calculation and careful introspection.

[Kilamandaros]

Yea I'm not saying they're on their hands and knees in worship but a lot of people in this thread feel that Black Templars will just kill any psyker on sight, even if on the same side like the Inquisition, when that's not really the case. Enemy heretic psykers of course will always be the first to die on the battlefield, I pack an Immolator full of Sisters of Silence with flamers for the full 'Burn the Witch' effect

But yea from memory when I read Fall of Cadia Greyfax took command of the Black Templars, displaying her badge of office when they disputed her command.

[BitsHammer]

I feel like how Inquisitors are handled by the Templars depends on what the Inquisitor wants. Kill some heretics? Sure. Start a a headcount though and you're getting kicked out of an airlock.

 

As for the Red Hunters, they don't choose to follow the Inquisition but were founded solely for that fact. They also get mindsioed so much that I don't even know if they know that there could be something seen as wrong about the arrangement. Clearly from lesser, lesse chaoter stock (likely Guilliman's seed).

[Marshal_Roujakis]

Yea I'm not saying they're on their hands and knees in worship but a lot of people in this thread feel that Black Templars will just kill any psyker on sight, even if on the same side like the Inquisition, when that's not really the case. Enemy heretic psykers of course will always be the first to die on the battlefield, I pack an Immolator full of Sisters of Silence with flamers for the full 'Burn the Witch' effect

But yea from memory when I read Fall of Cadia Greyfax took command of the Black Templars, displaying her badge of office when they disputed her command.

Oh they don't kill them on sight... but you'd be downright dumb to use psychic powers in close proximity to a Templar... there was one instance where a Librarian from the Death Watch used his psychic powers while fighting with a Templar Death Watch against some Tyranid breed xenos... the Templar literally used every inch of his resolve not to shoot the said Librarian with his pistol... and that was when they were surrounded by Tyranids... and he was a death watch... what more if they were just some poncy mortal with too much authority demanding obedience from Templars and suddenly using his psychic shenanigans for effect... in front of a Chaplain... or Reclusiarch Grimaldus who isn't exactly known for his patience...

i say Templars merely tolerate Inquisitors when necessary and can over rule their authority when they see that it goes against them...

[BitsHammer]

I feel like Khorne's hatred of witchery is second fiddle to a Templar's. Any Templar's.

[Castellan Doren]

We tolerate but only in the smallest regard to friendly psykers.

 

I would say younger brethren would almost kill a psyker on sight during the heat of battle not thinking. Sword Brethren, Chaplains, and up would think for a second who they were targetting and why.

 

But i guarantee the slightest unknown noise from said psyker, and it's over for them.

 

As for me? Not on my battlefield. I would Commisar your ass so quick.

 

I have a DW team, still won't touch one.

[Metic]

It all depends on who you ask, the new fluff has Black Templar revering astropaths like they are angels that can see the emperors light. That we would bow before remembrancers, and that the emperor is a god. That they welcome the idea of tactical squads and devastator squads in their ranks that they would send their neophytes out on covert missions requiring stealth. That we suffer from some sort of geneseed flaw that has left our chapter without psykers.........

However some of the Older more Veteran Black Templar players know that they Emperor is not a god, that psykers are a gateway to the warp and cannot be trusted. That a Neophyte belongs at the side of his Initiate. That the flexibility of a Crusader squad defeats the purpose of Tactical and Dev squads alike. That we follow the decree of Nikea and would never use a psyker because the Emperor told us not to. That we still crusade because it is our purpose. That we do not wear the symbol of the Emperor because we are His Symbol.

It all depends on who you ask. Play with what you think fits best for your crusade.

[Marshal Wolfhart]

I remember an apocalypse game where i had to play alongside Eldar (they were counted towards the good guys...). I told the guy to keep his dudes 12''+ away from mine and everything is okay, and not to use psykers anywhere near my forces. He agreed and set up with some solid distance. I still didn't like it from a fluff view, but i didn't want to screw people over.

So the game went on and everything was fine. Until he wanted to use psychic powers on my knights. I had a quick talk to the Redshirt and with the biggest smile of my life i announced shooting towards the allied unit of Eldar Guardians, containing the Farseer, charging in right afterwards. Wiped them all out while what he had left honourlessly died to the opposing chaos forces. The guy was so shocked, i had to buy him a drink in the aftermath, but boy, the entire store had one hell of a laugh!

 

TL;DR: Deny the witch, abhor the witch!

 

PS: However, if you people are more open towards psykers, do your thing. Who's to judge, what these little toy soldiers do in your head? Official canon gives enough leeway these days. In my head, we burn witches and don't even look at them, if not to measure the reach of the strike that immediately follows :P

[+Chaplain Matthias+]

I feel like since they begrudgingly tolerate astropaths and navigators, they wouldn't chainsword a psychic inquisitor on sight. But they wouldn't tolerate psychic buffs on their troops. And in that case, what's the point? Therefore My inquisitors will be non psykers.

[BitsHammer]

If not taking psykers to buff, then run them to hurt the enemy? Like using Smite.

 

That said, I don't really see a point as you ally armies to the Inquisition to give Inquisitors options (since they lost most of them and only have their mini character Agents unit now with the monkey and Daemonhosts) not the other way around. If you're going to ally something in, take something that is designed to make witches cry, not witches who aren't intended to support your army anyways.

[d3m01iti0n]

So a Culexus then lol

[rendingon1+]

Hm, I think you're taking this "hatred for psykers" to an extreme (and it's not supported by canon). As much as I like old BT fluff I can't recall any instances where astropaths and navigators were chained, beaten or anything as some of your posts guys might imply. I would rather expect Templars to comunicate with navigators/astropths through mortal crew or whatever and avoiding them as much as possible (such as apart from their quaters entire ship is no go area for psykers). Templars are not dumb idiots and now that without astro/navi their fleets are just useless.

[Honda]

So who's piloting the Crusader ships through the warp then?

 

 

WE SAIL BY THE EMPEROR'S LIGHT.

 

IT IS ALL THAT WE HAVE EVER NEEDED.