Dark Imperium Spoilers/Plot Summary (Read Along)

[Lord_Ikka]

Just got to this part in the book, but it completely stopped me- Gulliman is talking to Cawl Inferior, and it mentions Cawl's testing Primaris marines with Traitor Legion geneseed (12th legion, 20th legion, etc...) and stating that those geneseed lines were stable. In that same breath, it also mentions the 2nd and 11th Legions, the Lost Legions. It was just surprising to me that there was still viable geneseed from those two legions left, that it hadn't been destroyed during the Great Crusade when those legions were purged. Anybody else notice this little tidbit?

[RikuEru]

Just got to this part in the book, but it completely stopped me- Gulliman is talking to Cawl Inferior, and it mentions Cawl's testing Primaris marines with Traitor Legion geneseed (12th legion, 20th legion, etc...) and stating that those geneseed lines were stable. In that same breath, it also mentions the 2nd and 11th Legions, the Lost Legions. It was just surprising to me that there was still viable geneseed from those two legions left, that it hadn't been destroyed during the Great Crusade when those legions were purged. Anybody else notice this little tidbit?

What if the Primaris Marines Project started BEFORE the Horus Heresy even began.

Aspirants and gene samples from all 20 Legions were taken by Cawl and his team, to be improved upon.

Maybe it was even ordered and overseen by the Emperor, Guilliman just being one of the advisors to the idea of better, faster Marines (advocating for their strategic value for the Great Crusade).

[That way it would mean Cawl didn't out-do the Emperor, aswell]

 

 

Then the Horus Heresy started, Ressources became strained, the Schism of Mars happened. Cawl had to hide what he had begun in deeper Vaults. The Infos the Emperor gave to Corax for the Raptors were first results from the Primaris Project.

During the Scouring, the Imperium was in turmoil and ressource lines slowly built up again. Cawl continued in secret, under Guilliman's order, but at a slower pace.

[Kelborn]

That would explain a lot...

[RikuEru]

That would explain a lot...

It would also tidy up the whole mess a bit.

IF the backstory/beginnings of the Primaris Marines isn't expanded upon, will take it as a personal head-canon.

 

Addendum:

What if Cawl is just so full of grandeur and egoism, that all the new 'inventions' (Repulsor Tank, Cawl Boltrifle, Mk X, new Dread Chassis, etc.) for the Primaris weren't made by him. What if a whole team of Arch Magi and other Mechanicus heads were worked on them?

But some splitted off during the Schism, were killed during the Heresy, or died ( ... of whatever circumstance you might come up with *cough*) since then and became part of Cawl's Brain Jar collection/database.

 

Being egoistic and self-loving and trying to get closer to becoming Fabricator General signed all of the STC plans with his signature. Because he's a prick.

 

Of course I wouldn't like all of that to be explained in great detail in the new books.

Just little hints showing that he might not be the inventing genius he seems to be, but a genius at marketing others' ideas under his own name.

[Hrvat]

I don't find it strange as per long standing background Imperium has stasis vaults containing geneseed from all Space Marine forces ever created except those belonging to the 13th and partially 21st founding. There was nothing in the background to indicate just because the Legions were expunged from records their geneseed would have been destroyed. 

[mc warhammer]

i wonder if guilliman feels that 10, 000 years is long enough to have kept quiet about the lost legions and will just start dropping his 2 redacted brother's names any chance he gets.

[HeritorA]

i wonder if guilliman feels that 10, 000 years is long enough to have kept quiet about the lost legions and will just start dropping his 2 redacted brother's names any chance he gets.

Nope - they still stand by the point uin GW that II and XI will never be written about.

Through in dialog with the Cawl Guilliman mentioned that he does not give the permission to create Primaris Marines from the old geneseed stock of the Traitor Legions and IIth and XIth.

Also thinking about the Legions of old he mentioned that 2 of the Legions failed, and  9 others turned traitors. So they failed in something and were eradicated

[Augustus]

I wouldn't touch the traitors' Gene-Seed.

It's not only a biological implant. They carry memories and seem to be a quasi-psychic link between it and their respective Primarchs. I mean ..40k is a universe where a name of a class of ship can impart some bad voodoo. Unless Guillimen/Cawl are working for Chaos. Turn that would make sense.

[Petitioner's City]

I wouldn't touch the traitors' Gene-Seed.

It's not only a biological implant. They carry memories and seem to be a quasi-psychic link between it and their respective Primarchs. I mean ..40k is a universe where a name of a class of ship can impart some bad voodoo. Unless Guillimen/Cawl are working for Chaos. Turn that would make sense.

 

But I am sad he wouldn't even consider a force inspired by Barbarous Dantioch. Presumably he isn't aware of the possibly strange mix of the Grey Knights then...?

[Jareddm]

 

 

I wouldn't touch the traitors' Gene-Seed.

It's not only a biological implant. They carry memories and seem to be a quasi-psychic link between it and their respective Primarchs. I mean ..40k is a universe where a name of a class of ship can impart some bad voodoo. Unless Guillimen/Cawl are working for Chaos. Turn that would make sense.

But I am sad he wouldn't even consider a force inspired by Barbarous Dantioch. Presumably he isn't aware of the possibly strange mix of the Grey Knights then...?

The Grey Knights had their implants surgically switched out with ones linked directly to the Emperor. They were essentially purged of their gene-father's genetic influence.

 

As for Dantioch, there was a chapter likely inspired by him. The fact that they're Ultramarines by blood doesn't change where their inspiration could've come from.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Jareddm

[Withershadow]

 

The Grey Knights had their implants surgically switched out with ones linked directly to the Emperor. They were essentially purged of their gene-father's genetic influence.

 

This is patently false, or at best empty conjecture.

[DarkChaplain]

 

As for Dantioch, there was a chapter likely inspired by him. The fact that they're Ultramarines by blood doesn't change where their inspiration could've come from.

 

 

The Scythes of the Emperor literally got their iconography because of Dantioch. The Chapter Master even wears Barabas's iron mask on his helm. Nothing likely about it, there was plain confirmation of it already.

 

 

 

 

The Grey Knights had their implants surgically switched out with ones linked directly to the Emperor. They were essentially purged of their gene-father's genetic influence.

 

This is patently false, or at best empty conjecture.

 

 

Is it? There are various sources that directly state that their gene-seed was switched.

 

From Pandorax:

 

Epimetheus tucked his arms and legs in as the ground quickly came up to meet him. It had been ten thousand years since he had free-fallen from a moving craft – in the days before he had sworn his new oaths and his gene-seed swapped out for that containing the Emperor’s own biological material – but the memory of it came easily to him.

[DogWelder]

Also, the Maccrage's Honor has undergone some serious upgrades. It may now be the most powerful Imperial ship in the galaxy (not counting battlestations like the Phalanx). I love how Guilliman told the Mechanicus to bugger off and told Cawl to install the most efficient tech he could find. 

 

“Before the crusade, the Macragge’s Honour had undergone an extensive refit in shipyards of the Ring of Iron around Mars, and the command deck had been entirely reconfigured from Guilliman’s day. Archmagos Cawl’s stamp was on everything. New machines and unheard of configurations of old devices replaced equipment that had been in use for tens of centuries. The tech-priests had been outraged, but Guilliman had silenced them, and Cawl had had his way.

 

The result was worth upsetting the Adeptus Mechanicus’ religious sensibilities. The machinery still had the ugly look of 41st millennium technology, but Guilliman reckoned there was a ten per cent increase in tactical responsiveness alone. Multiple redundancies and newly integrated systems allowed for better survivability. Dozens of tech-priests from Cawl’s faction laboured to keep the archmagos’ finely balanced design working, but it did work, and excellently so.”

 

Excerpt From: Guy Haley. “Dark Imperium.” iBooks. 

[Dagoth Ur]

 

 

The Grey Knights had their implants surgically switched out with ones linked directly to the Emperor. They were essentially purged of their gene-father's genetic influence.

 

 

This is patently false, or at best empty conjecture.

I think you'll find it to be a tad more than that if you read Pandorax (I believe that was the novel featuring Catachans, Black Legion, Dark Angels amd Grey Knights).

[godking]

What  i liked about dark imperium is that even with Guilliman openly and directly stating that the emperor is NOT A GOD he still has to deal with the eccliarchy believing otherwise and has to make political concessions to them.

 

What i found funny was that after 30 years he stopped trying to correct the myths that have been told about him for 10000 years.

[Petitioner's City]

So far, I've really enjoyed this - more than I expected. At points, it is duller (the first battle with the Primaris), but the scenes of dialogue, Guiilleman's thoughts and the Guard character's memories of the Death Guard assault have been excellent. I'm just at the Triumph chapter, and I imagine there will be more battles ahead, but a novel about politicking, stress, conversation & reflection is pretty welcome! 

[HeritorA]

 

Also, the Maccrage's Honor has undergone some serious upgrades. It may now be the most powerful Imperial ship in the galaxy (not counting battlestations like the Phalanx). I love how Guilliman told the Mechanicus to bugger off and told Cawl to install the most efficient tech he could find. 

 

“Before the crusade, the Macragge’s Honour had undergone an extensive refit in shipyards of the Ring of Iron around Mars, and the command deck had been entirely reconfigured from Guilliman’s day. Archmagos Cawl’s stamp was on everything. New machines and unheard of configurations of old devices replaced equipment that had been in use for tens of centuries. The tech-priests had been outraged, but Guilliman had silenced them, and Cawl had had his way.

 

The result was worth upsetting the Adeptus Mechanicus’ religious sensibilities. The machinery still had the ugly look of 41st millennium technology, but Guilliman reckoned there was a ten per cent increase in tactical responsiveness alone. Multiple redundancies and newly integrated systems allowed for better survivability. Dozens of tech-priests from Cawl’s faction laboured to keep the archmagos’ finely balanced design working, but it did work, and excellently so.”

 

Excerpt From: Guy Haley. “Dark Imperium.” iBooks. 

 

For 8000 years lol. As Guilliman said himself (and you know the quote) - it appeared from the Warp - after the Primarch demizal and that means after the Thessala.

 

No pun intended Petitioner's City

 'I'm just at the Triumph chapter, and I imagine there will be more battles ahead, but a novel about politicking, stress, conversation & reflection is pretty welcome!' - In my humble pinion - that's the worst Triumph scene from all the times (dull and blank) and further on it all went downhill quickly.

[hopkins]

i enjoyed that

especially the politics and bobby g insights

 

nice re-intro to mortarion too, guess we'll be seeing him centre stage in the next couple of months

[DarkChaplain]

I just finally got around to finishing Eye of Night & Hand of Darkness and the timeline confuses me a bit.

 

I had assumed that the two audio dramas were set not long after Rise of the Primarch, considering how awe-struck Greyfax still was of Guilliman. But Roboute also says he was having somebody else retrieve the other artifact. Now in Hand of Darkness, reference is made to Mortarion's war on Ultramar and being driven off for the time being, which I had assumed only happened recently as of Dark Imperium.

 

Does the novel shed any light on what went on with the two artifacts?

[NKCougar]

i enjoyed that

especially the politics and bobby g insights

 

nice re-intro to mortarion too, guess we'll be seeing him centre stage in the next couple of months

Being inside his head once in a while was nice, but a lot of the dialogue killed it for me. Example in spoilers:

 

His internal dialogue about the Emperor's divinity hurt my soul. The Emperor, from the beginning, was explicitly clear that he was not a god. Guilliman was chosen to humble Lorgar at Monarchia for a couple of reasons - first, he could appear entirely emotionless during the whole event. Second, he was head of the most rational - and one of the most successful - legion. He was the perfect foil to Lorgar.

 

So seeing him do a theoretical/practical dialogue about it, even though he denied it every time, was painful. He took the Emperor's statement on his divinity as word of (pun entirely unintended yet wholly appropriate) god. On top of that, he hasn't been conscious (hundred or two years of running Imperium after heresy, then another century and a half in M41-42) long enough for this change of heart to really make sense. If it had been even the Khan or Corax having the change of heart, that could at least be somewjat reasonable - the Khan knew what was in the warp, and Corax learned as well, so they have some frame of reference (knowing gods do exist) and aren't as uber rational as Guilliman. Seeing THE (aside from the Emperor) angry atheist of the time have these doubts was cringeworthy to me.

[Arkangilos]

I don't know, I think that he has every reason to reevaluate his beliefs.

 

Plus we never knew his original heart. He could have somewhat believed Lorgar, but didn't let it get in the way of his progress. Remember, Lorgar wasn't censured for his belief, he was censured because he wasn't going at a fast enough pace.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Arkangilos

[Mellow]

I've finished the book. I enjoyed it muchly.

 

The Emperor is well and truly alive and able to communicate when He can be bothered. Baring in mind He didn't speak to any of his servants for 10k years until RG turned up.

 

I didn't realise Mortarions dad was a Xeno yet it clearly states he is several times!

 

Lots of new Primaris tech making them so shiny it smells a bit stormcast eternal.

 

Cawl is the new bestest at everything. I'm convinced that for someone to have improved The Emperors gene-seed as it directly says he has then he is either:

 

A perpetual

Just plain lucky

 

or an actual Abominable intelligence from the DAoT that's managed to remain hidden and undetected due to his extreme isolation.

 

He is literally the cleverest thug ever and no technology is out of his reach and he effectively states anything can be solved with enough time.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Mellow

[DarkChaplain]

I'm pretty excited about Guy's Mortarion development, actually. He's tackling the Primarch's novel, isn't he? Guess we're in for some Barbarus goodness!

[HeritorA]

i enjoyed that

especially the politics and bobby g insights

 

nice re-intro to mortarion too, guess we'll be seeing him centre stage in the next couple of months

It was interesting. On the other hand Typhus speech and tone then talking to his father? That's beyond insolence - it's strange that he survived thus far. Papa Nurgle do have a strange kind of humor.

 

DarkChaplain:

'I just finally got around to finishing Eye of Night & Hand of Darkness and the timeline confuses me a bit.'

 

- I think I partly figured it after reading 8th edition.

It is mentioned that after events of the DI from Haley > Guiiliman went to Parmenio (as mentioned in DI that he knows that Mortarion would be where) but instead fought daemon lord Septicus and his guard where. That;s probably what the next book from Haley would be about.

After which he sent agents to find Mortarion artefacts while he went to Iax, where he met Mortarion at last and duelled with him to a standstill.

So it's after the Indomitus Crusade and Scourge Wars.

 

And yes - it is almost confirmed now that Haley is doing Mortarion.

NKCougar

You would have never believed that Buirlliman would became such an struggling teenager.

[bluntblade]

 

 

Guilliman orders Cawl to construct Necron Pylon-ish devices so that the warp storms can be driven back.

 

 

I'm soooo tired of Fix-it-all-Cawl...

How does he even know how to make those?