Tactics and musings for 8th edition

[Beams]

It's much better than 7th, when a Cannoness would regularly get oneshotted by an Autocannons.

[Servant of Dante]

It's much better than 7th, when a Cannoness would regularly get oneshotted by an Autocannons.

Well, it's not better for my headcanon, but yeah.

 

Really though there is some middle ground between her e-dex incarnation and the 8th edition rules, and of course I'm speaking in general about 8th edition. 

[Montford]

Still getting used to 8th edition. Today I realized that the Immolator armed with the Immolation Flamer can advance and still shoot.

[KiwiBen]

Still getting used to 8th edition. Today I realized that the Immolator armed with the Immolation Flamer can advance and still shoot.

 

Still less embarrassing than playing 3 games of a 5 game tournament with Arco Flagellants in my list before I clicked that they had 2 wounds and a 5++...

 

Perhaps unsurprisingly, they did a lot better in my last two matches...

[Gen.Steiner]

Two wounds! That's pretty decent. I hadn't noticed that myself (mind you I don't have any of the models at the moment).

[taikishi]

I'm not necessarily a fan of that. I mean, I want the characters to have an impact on the battle, but I don't want individual models to dominate the game.

 

You clearly never played in 2E, then, because these stats are nothing like Hero Hammer. I've had a 200-ish point Chaos Lord take down over 1000 points of orks in hand-to-hand combat with no help from anyone outside the combat -- it wasn't until Ghazghkull joined the fight that he even took a wound!

 

Over the top stats? This includes wargear:

 

M4, WS9, BS7, S7 or 8, T6, W3, I7, A7, Ld10, Sv 3+ on 2d6 / 3++ (can take both), Hatred, and either:

* makes its melee attacks with a S8 lightning claw that has a -5 save and deals d3 wounds OR

* makes its melee attacks with a S7 daemon weapon that has -4 save, always wounds psykers on a 2 and instantly kills any model it successfully wounds if that model fails a Leadership test

 

Cost? 214 points

 

 

Stock canoness?

 

M4, WS6, BS7, S4, T5, W3, I7, A3, Ld10, 3+ for 85 points. Unlike the 3 wargear card Chaos Lord, she is limited to 1 + two relics

 

 

What should really get you boiling is this, though:

 

M4, WS3, BS4, S3, T4, W1, I4, A1, Ld8, 3+, 28 points.

 

That statline? A battle sister. T4. I4. :( We never should have lost this!!!

Edited July 24, 2017 by taikishi

[Beams]

So, with the changes to flyers not counting for tabling, how viable would a list like this be?

 

(Using models I have/could easily make)

 

Redemptive Crusade:

Vanguard

Canoness, plasma & eviscerator

Arcos x 9

Arcos x 9

Arcos x 9

Arcos x 9

Priest (power mail)

Priest Chainsword

 

Vanguard

Canoness boltgun, eviscerator

Arcos x9

Arcos x9

Arcos x9

Arcos x8

Priest with power mail

Priest with Chainsword

 

Vanguard

Canoness powersword, bolt pistol

Mistress

Mistress

Repentia x9

Repentia x9

Repressor (2 hflamers)

Repressor (2 hflamers)

 

It's a ton of drops (but in tournaments that's "just" a +1 to your opponents roll to go first... Two turns of getting shot before emelee would suck, though) and I'd have to convert/scratch another 40 arcos...

 

Curious if enough would survive to get into combat and deal enough damage.

[Servant of Dante]

Yes I know about the Sisters rules in 2E, I own the codex . . .

Besides, just because 2E was more hero hammer than 8E, doesn't mean I should like the hero focus 8E seems to have.

 

As for T4 I4, no. Sisters are baseline humans, if marines were T5 and I5 as a baseline, the. I could see the argument, but part of what makes Sisters unique and interesting is that they have the same physical stats as all humans.

 

Ok, but Seraphim and probably Celestians should have been I 4 :P

[Hod]

It's a ton of drops (but in tournaments that's "just" a +1 to your opponents roll to go first... Two turns of getting shot before emelee would suck, though) and I'd have to convert/scratch another 40 arcos...

 

Curious if enough would survive to get into combat and deal enough damage.

 

Could always add some Crusaders in there to increase the survivability. A 2+ inv is pretty good at staying alive.

[Montford]

A 5 girl Dominion Squad in an Immolator can make a Vanguard move before the game starts. If I put a Hospitaller in the Immolator with them they can still do the Vanguard move, correct?

[A.T.]

A 5 girl Dominion Squad in an Immolator can make a Vanguard move before the game starts. If I put a Hospitaller in the Immolator with them they can still do the Vanguard move, correct?

 

No, all models in the transport have to have the vanguard rule or it doesn't work.

[Eddie Orlock]

Aye, the design studio is not just unfriendly toward combo-play, it's actively hostile. Given that an alleged core driver in eighth design was to put a stop to unintended propagation of abilities we could be reasonably confident that even if they did slip up and allow a character to tag along with the dominions they'd issue a faq to quash it just as soon as it appeared on their radar.

[Gen.Steiner]

Right, fellow Canoness-Commanders, I have a 2,000 point game coming up this Thursday against someone I've never played before who will be using the perfidious Eldar.

 

Any ideas? I have the following to choose from:

Celestine and Super Twins
Canoness with inferno pistol and eviscerator
2x Imagifers
Hospitaller
Dialogus
Repentia Superior

9 Repentia
Rhino
5 Celestians with multi-melta, flamer and plasma pistol/chainsword
Immolator with immolation flamer
10 Celestians with combi-flamer/power sword, flamer; heavy flamer

Rhino
10 Sisters with bolter/power sword, 2 meltas

Rhino
10 Sisters with 3 storm bolters

Rhino
5 Dominions with combi-melta/power maul, 4 meltas
Immolator with multi-meltas
5 Seraphim with power sword, 2 hand flamers
5 Retributors with bolter/power sword, 4 heavy bolters
Immolator with heavy bolters
Exorcist

I'm going to try and get as much of that as possible into the 2,000 points. I'm concerned about Wraithknights in particular and vehicles in general; I don't really have much of an answer beyond Vanguard Dominions. Any ideas?

[Beams]

My advice: Hit things with enough Meltas and it'll die.

 

I usually run my support characters in an immolator, and my dominions in Repressors so they can be protected and shoot. When the Repressors start looking rough, I have the characters get out of the immo so that when the Repressors go, the models inside can benefit from the AoF.

[Gen.Steiner]

Well, it wasn't Wraithknights I had to worry about, but Wraithguard, Wave Serpents, and my own colossally bad tactical jeenyus.

Still much was learnt, like, 'Don't Vanguard Move if you aren't going to get first turn', and 'Celestine without the Super Twins is not as terrifying'. On to the next victory!

[CaptainMarsh]

Eldar are a tough matchup for Sisters. They have a lot of tools to play with, many of which are good. They don't have to rely on one strategy or tactic, nor only one unit or grouping. They are a faction I have yet to beat in 8th. I think they are, along with Sisters since I am the only one, the only army I have not had some success against in 8th. Wish I had some real good tactical advice for you, but I've been rolled up thrice by three different styles of Eldar army.

Edited July 28, 2017 by CaptainMarsh

[Noeh]

The Eldar player I went up against just devastated my army. I could barely hurt the tanks and transports he had. That said, it was a game where I only had 1000 points, my ally player was hanging back like his life depended on it, and I didn't have dominions or exorcists because I wanted to try BSS thinking my ally would use his Tzeench list to cast spells.

[Atrus]

Well theres ya problem right there. No communication between your ally. That and taking BSS against Eldar. Really need to pull out all the stops against them.

[Gen.Steiner]

Yeah, I got brutalised by a Ynnari list last night.

Dark Reapers with Soulburst are filth. Filthy filthy filth filth. Almost as bad as S10 auto-hit flamer things.

On the other hand my list was very definitely sub-par, I made terrible mistakes (that I will not make again) and I nearly won on VPs before the game went on an extra turn too far and I lost by being tabled.

[Montford]

Regretfully I find no compelling reason to bring Celestians. They may be better in melee but I avoid melee with Sisters save for Celestine, Repentia and Ministarum Penitent Engines. If I need Elite slots for a Detachment I use Imagifiers and Hospitallers.

 

In my Konor Campaign game today I got to enjoy one of the best units we have: my Immolator armed with the flamers pulled of an 18 inch move and got enough wounds on the enemy Warlord that he actually failed two 2+ saves. My opponent's face was a treasure to behold.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Montford981

[Atrus]

Yeah, I got brutalised by a Ynnari list last night.

Dark Reapers with Soulburst are filth. Filthy filthy filth filth. Almost as bad as S10 auto-hit flamer things.

On the other hand my list was very definitely sub-par, I made terrible mistakes (that I will not make again) and I nearly won on VPs before the game went on an extra turn too far and I lost by being tabled.

Exactly this. My only victory ever against Eldar has been because of VP and even then it was only by 1.

Eldar too tricksy and filthy to just beat down. Gotta play the game and if its a kill point game, best of luck.

 

Im with you on the Celestians, Mont. There just isnt enough benefit to taking Celestians over BSS. They do the same job as BSS and take up a valuable elite slot. As you said, they have extra attack but only a craxy person or someone with incredibly blessed dice would throw a squad of sisters into combat...in my opinion and experience at least. Using them as body guards is gimmicky at best and frankly it forces whatever youre sacrificing them for to not only make up its own points but also the points of the Celestians that have bit the bullet for it.

They have improved this edition, but not enough to bother taking. Fingers crossed for improvement and options when the codex drops.

 

Come to think of it. Their entry is more of a fluff entry than a "lets make them great on the table" entry. Youd take them in a narrative game as bodyguard to a Cannoness- aside fron that i see no other place for them.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Atrus

[Beams]

I've beaten Ynnari a few time, mostly just Dominion vanguarding and forcing wounds. It's always tough against them.

[Servant of Dante]

I use Celestians because they can take wounds for my Canoness, who I insist on throwing into combat. And that Ld 9 on the Superior is pretty neat, and if you give her a power maul, she does a pretty decent job with her 3 attacks (theoretically, at least).

 

But yeah, unless you're running a cc Canoness, no real reason to use Celestians. Still, better than last edition, imo.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[Noeh]

Well theres ya problem right there. No communication between your ally. That and taking BSS against Eldar. Really need to pull out all the stops against them.

There was communication, but he wasn't exactly listening nor coming up with a plan of attack himself. I drew enemy fire and led them out..and he kinda just sat there.

[Atrus]

Such is the fate of those to put their faith in daemons...