Tactics and musings for 8th edition

[Noeh]

*Looks at Celestine who is very much a daemon of the Emperor* Oh Allfather, would you look at the time.... *shuffles off*

[Servant of Dante]

*Looks at Celestine who is very much a daemon of the Emperor* Oh Allfather, would you look at the time.... *shuffles off*

See, I keep telling you all we need to burn Celestine, but does anyone listen to me . . . 

[CaptainHelion]

If you burn her, she just goes somewhere else. If we don't, we can at least keep an eye on her.

[Servant of Dante]

Dangit, good point.

 

I'm still not going to use her too often :D

[ERJAK]

Celestine is my single favorite thing about 40k, but then again I start at the table and work back to the fluff. The 135pt version was the most tempramental POS ever and I loved her for it. Once, across 2 tournaments in the same month she went from dying first turn and failing her rez 3 times in a row, to wiping out 1000+pts of every army I faced.

 

I've played one game of SoB without Celestine as my HQ ever and will never do so again.

[Servant of Dante]

I enjoyed playing with the 135 pt version of her, but I think the most memorable thing she did for me was die her second time to a lascanon on overwatch.

 

I didn't play her much because it didn't make sense for her to be fighting alongside my fine minor Order on the edge of the Galaxy, imo.

 

The new version of her is just irreconcilable with my headcanon, but she does have quite the impact, get in their face turn one and dare them to kill her twice. And if they do, then they've not been shooting at your other units as much.

[Gen.Steiner]

A fun trick is to use the movement AoF to Fall Back, and then resurrect a Super Twin (if necessary) before moving up, shooting the Ardent Blade, and attacking again.

Seraphim are bet used in squads of 10 I think. 5 woman squads just die too easily.

 

Multi-meltas best utilised in either BSS or Retributors.

Celestians work best with flamers and heavy flamers.

[Atrus]

Ah heres something ive bern meaning to get a seco d opinion on.

With the Faith movement, does this count as a movemeny for yhe purposes of affecting heavy weapons firing and falling from combat preventing fire/assault?

 

Ive been uncertain and havent seen a FAQ on it so have been playing it as affecting the above mentioned stuff.

[Gen.Steiner]

Ah heres something ive bern meaning to get a seco d opinion on.

With the Faith movement, does this count as a movemeny for yhe purposes of affecting heavy weapons firing and falling from combat preventing fire/assault?

 

Ive been uncertain and havent seen a FAQ on it so have been playing it as affecting the above mentioned stuff.

 

No, because it's movement outside the Movement Phase. You can move and advance, then your turn starts, if you move or advance again, then you take the penalties to hit/charge etc.

[Eddie Orlock]

Ah heres something ive bern meaning to get a seco d opinion on. ...

Rules question you say? Ah-hem. '... move as if it were the Movement phase'. Heavy weapons make specific reference to the preceding movement phase, so you can be good here, if avoiding the -1 is really worth the faith to you.

 

Moving out of combat could be a little more contentious. Under 'Enemy Models' on pg. 177 we are barred from moving within an inch of the enemy. So, if your figure is already within this range any move may, by definition, contain a component within the proscribed region and this be barred.

 

The following paragraph 'Falling Back' Makes specific reference to the start of the movement phase so it's a bit on how we read '... as if it were the movement phase'. Do we read this as starting a micro-bonus move-phase giving the option to evade, or, like some other out of sequence actions it's an isolated step. Either you could fall back and be restricted per the fall-back caveats, or, you can't and thus can't.

[CaptainHelion]

"If a unit Falls Back, it cannot Advance (see below), or charge later that turn. A unit that Falls Back also cannot shoot later that turn unless it can Fly."

"A unit that Advances can’t shoot or charge later that turn."

"If a model with a Heavy weapon moved in its preceding Movement phase, you must subtract 1 from any hit rolls made when firing that weapon this turn."

 

Seems clear cut. If you Fall Back with AoF movement, you can't shoot, Advance or charge, just like if you Fall Back in your regular movement phase. Similarly, if you Advance with an AoF move, you can't shoot or charge. Barring specific rules exceptions, such as Assault weapons.

However, Heavy weapons only count the directly preceding Movement phase, so if you use an AoF to move, then sit still in your regular Movement phase, then you won't get the -1 to hit.

[dracpanzer]

I have been having some luck using a couple of large bare bones Seraphim squads, nominally brought as Celestines escort, to get them close to my opponents nastier assault units (lych guard, khorne berserkers, etc) and charge one of them in at the end of my turn while the other disengaged that turn. They rotated roles the next turn, and then the next. One assaulting, the other disengaging. I was able to shoot at the unit every turn, and it was basically locked in place from turn two till the rest of their army was destroyed and I could focus everything on it.

 

Celestines save buff and re-rolling their shield of faith helps. But I did use a few AoF to replenish their ranks some what as the game went on. It was nice not having to worry about these units roving around while still being able to shoot them every turn. My 220 points of Seraphim were able to tie up far more than their points for several turns until my Dominions and the Murder Hobo had recked everything else.

[Gen.Steiner]

I think Seraphim squads of less than 10 are not viable for anything other than inferno-pistol carrying suicide actions - zoom up alongside Dominions, delete a tank/character/monster, die.

Ten strong Seraphim squads will last long enough to properly support Celestine and absorb overwatch fire and so on.

CaptainHelion - I missed the 'later that turn' part of those rules. Damn. That slows down the AoF move and prevents some of those tricks I was contemplating (and have tried).

Could you use AoF to fall back and then move in the movement phase, though? You won't be advancing or shooting, just moving.

[Daimhin]

I think Seraphim squads of less than 10 are not viable for anything other than inferno-pistol carrying suicide actions - zoom up alongside Dominions, delete a tank/character/monster, die.

 

Ten strong Seraphim squads will last long enough to properly support Celestine and absorb overwatch fire and so on.

 

CaptainHelion - I missed the 'later that turn' part of those rules. Damn. That slows down the AoF move and prevents some of those tricks I was contemplating (and have tried).

 

Could you use AoF to fall back and then move in the movement phase, though? You won't be advancing or shooting, just moving.

Yes, that is fine.

[CaptainHelion]

Yeah, sounds perfectly fine to me.

[taikishi]

 

*Looks at Celestine who is very much a daemon of the Emperor* Oh Allfather, would you look at the time.... *shuffles off*

See, I keep telling you all we need to burn Celestine, but does anyone listen to me . . . 

 

 

Or simply accept the fact that Sisters receive their blessings from a warp entity (the Emperor). Not all warp entities are daemons or xenos in need of purging.

[Servant of Dante]

I don't consider AoFs to be actual miracles, just acts of human will, determination and disregard for one's life. This is obviously not the only interpretation or even the most common one, but having AoFs come from the warp just doesn't work for me.

 

Edit: but we're off topic now. Feel free to start a new thread or PM me, if you like.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Servant of Dante

[foxlight713]

Need to confirm something on acts of faith. A playing buddy of mine is saying that I'm using acts of faith wrong need to confirm this, when do they happen?

 

So before you start moving you roll for your acts of faith (for this example lets say I have 2 imagnifiers) Army wide one passes, and 1 imagnifiers pass.  So I have 2 acts of faith to use and select my 2 units.  Now do the AoF trigger before I move my units or do the AoF happen in the phase that they are for.

 

For example with one I chose Divine Guidance (shoot twice), dose this happen before the movement phase or in the shooting phase.

[Gen.Steiner]

Acts of Faith occur immediately.

You roll for your army wide AoF, you succeed, it happens right then - so you pick your AoF, and it happens - you shoot, move, assault, or heal. Repeat for as many AoF as you may get - 1 roll per Imagifer, auto-AoF with Celestine etc.

 

Once ALL your AoF have been resolved, you then enter your turn proper with the Movement Phase.

[Servant of Dante]

In fact, I believe you do the AoF before you even roll for the next AoF.

[Gen.Steiner]

In fact, I believe you do the AoF before you even roll for the next AoF.

 

Yes, absolutely.

 

You perform each AoF individually as they trigger.

 

E.G, an army with Celestine and 2 Imagifers:

 

Roll for Army wide AoF - pass - pick AoF and resolve it.

 

Celestine's auto AoF happens - pick AoF and resolve it.

 

Roll for Imagifer 1. Fail.

 

Roll for Imagifer 2. Pass - pick AoF and resolve it.

 

Movement Phase begins.

[hunterkiler86]

is there any way i can get Celestine to fall back and then attack again using an AoF? like a make shift hit and run?

[dracpanzer]

No.

[Gen.Steiner]

is there any way i can get Celestine to fall back and then attack again using an AoF? like a make shift hit and run?

 

Not legally, no - I incorrectly played it like this in a recent game, but it's definitely not allowed. Sorry.

 

She doesn't really need it though. So long as you go into a combat with your Super Twins intact or at full health on Celestine you should be OK. She killed 14 Plague Marines and the Lord of Contagion yesterday.

[ERJAK]

is there any way i can get Celestine to fall back and then attack again using an AoF? like a make shift hit and run?

Why not just attack twice? What are you fighting that celestine can't kill in 3-4 rounds of combat?