8th Ed Tactics thread

[Gen.Steiner]

Run and hide. Concentrate your fire. Get into position to take obejectives at the end of the game.

And if all else fails, bog them down with Conscripts or slap 'em with a Shadowsword (or two).

[Otto von Bludd]

Dual HF Chimeras are great, they are basically a mini Hellhound with transport capacity.  I don't even think of them as Tranports but as shock assault vehicles.  The key to making to really cost effective though is make sure they are transporting something that wants to be close.  Flamer/melta shotgun vets, Bullgryns, Death Korps Engineers (probably the best choice).  You have to play aggressive with it to get the most out of those flamers, but if you do it pays off.  An all mech list centered around mechanized inf such as those above (though even infantry squads with flamers or plasma/meltas are fine to keep it cheap) riding in HF Chimeras has worked well for me because the heavier tanks (LR or Baneblade) soak up all the AT firepower while the Chimeras and HHs get in close.  Move+Advance+Smoke launchers is a great way to ensure your T7 vehicles are in a great position turn 1.  

[Gen.Steiner]

I have one dual HF Chimera. It usually carries Ogryns, a Priest and a Commissar.

[The Catachan Devil]

I have considered the Shadowsword but it's such a huge investment in points. The board we played on had cover but a big chunk of damage came from two exploding vehicles early on while my forces were still relatively compact. Mortal wounds took out a commissar, a lascannon squad, and put enough wounds on four infantry squads to force tough morale tests and they melted to battle shock.

 

You were very unlucky to have two exploding vehicles. 

 

Shadow sword should be able to knock off 7.93 wounds a knight with a 5++ per turn with it's main weapon. However it is a bit of a fire magnet, and it is a lot of points to invest in games <2,000 points imo.

 

The next best thing I can think of would be Manticores. For 78 points less you can get 3 Manticores  which should be able to knock off 9.33 Wounds/turn.

 

The other advantage is being able to put Manticores out of LOS backfield and fire with impunity - negating any unwanted attention. 

 

Couple this with some squads with meltas and it should be fairly strong VS knights and will also be fairly flexible vs other lists.

 

 

 

[NatBrannigan]

"Run and Hide" Gen.Steiner!? Where's a Commissar when you need one!

 

Don't listen to him! What you should do is perform a retrograde advance towards cover (provided by the Emperor in his wisdom) that will prevent the enemy from knowing your exact location and allowing you to heroically charge onto objectives at the most appropriate time!

 

Run and Hide... honestly...

 

In all seriousness I'm very lucky that I never come up against 4 Knight Lists or Rip Tide Spam and the like. The Game just isn't designed for that to me a fun match up in my opinion. Not saying I wouldn't give it a go but unless you tailor a list against them you'll always struggle. Massed Artillery? Massed Artillery is always an answer to something.

 

Also, I'm very conflicted now on the Hellhound (or Banewolf) vs Dual HF Chimera decision. I has planned to buy some Bullgryns (Found the Pith Helmet Heads again!) and a Hellhound but now I'm thinking maybe the Chimera is better? I'd probably stick my Command Squad with Flamers and a SWS in there which sounds dead handy... Curse you and your good advice!

Edited July 13, 2017 by NatBrannigan

[Gen.Steiner]

Ah, yes, I do apologise, I shall assign myself a punishment duty at once!

After all there are some perks to high rank. ;)

I think the Hellhound and dual HF Chimera packed with Ogryns make an excellent shock force. Burn stuff to bits and then hit them with angry abhumans.

Hellhounds are just too tasty not to take I reckon.

[NatBrannigan]

It certainly an option of course. I'll probably go for a Squad of 5 'gryns (and a Nork of course) so they won't be going in a Chimera. My Flamer Command Squad and SWS squad though are desperate for a transport do it's a very tempting option.

 

I've also almost convinced myself to Splash out on a Malacdor Infernus which is essentially a super Hellhound... I'm going to press buy on this order today one way or the other. At the moment there's a Chimera in the basket.

[Gen.Steiner]

Yeah, I miss the days when you could fit five Ogryns into a Chimera. Ah well.

Let us know how you get on with the Malcador when it his the table. Much flame, such burn.

[Rustam]

I think the Hellhound and dual HF Chimera packed with Ogryns make an excellent shock force. Burn stuff to bits and then hit them with angry abhumans.

 

...

This might just be the ultimate answer, would this perhaps fit a less gunliney force better? I'm thinking of 2-3 stormtroopers squads and a lightning fighter for 1k pts.

[Galron]

The most I have seen so far was a Shadowsword, which I effectively ignored for the rest of his army. Note I was playing chaos marines with havoc and regular marine squads with missile launchers which made messes out of all of his ineffective Leman Russes. I had a similar experience with my own Leman Russes and doubt mine will see the field at any point in the near future. Although charging the superheavy at the end was a stupid idea. Those things are nigh unkillable for normal infantry. Might have had a chance with terminators. But the shadowsword was decently effective at its role but absolutely ineffective outside its role. It killed my Sicarian in two rounds of shooting doing 7 wounds in one round and something stupidly high the next. But after that he either wasted shots on rhinos or went after tac or havoc squads in cover. That massive volcano cannon I think killed 3 normal marines and a single terminator the rest of the game and it might have been a different weapon on it that killed the termy.

 

Missile launchers are king this edition. Getting strength 8 means wounding most big things on a 4+ and doing d6 wounds, or getting d6 shots. In a previous game I was seriously degrading a dev squad a turn with my havoc squad. My opponent at the end had lots of one and two man squads running around trying to stay around Calgar. In my Elysians I am fielding 2 squads of missile launcher(and its the heaviest weapon I can take) which while expensive, maybe the most expensive infantry unit in the army, I am counting on popping up all over the board in cover and unleashing missiles all over the place.

 

My issue is still going to be those knight armies or heavy armor armies and I haven't figured out how to combat them with a TAC army.

[Gen.Steiner]

I think the answer to knights is a mass of chaff - cultists, Conscripts, what-have-you to bog them down in combat.

As for heavy armour - lots of rocket launchers and lascannons; focus fire, kill a tank at a time then move on to the next.

Shadowswords - excellent against opposing Lords of War, rubbish against anything else.

I'm going to get myself a Banesword though; because the Quake Cannon (?) is a nice big bang that is pretty good at killing infantry as well as vehicles and Lords of War.

[Galron]

Yeah, Elysians don't have chaff lol. What we have is small heavy weapons teams deploying all over the board although the heaviest weapon man carried is a missile launcher.

 

Everyone keeps harping on the Shadowsword like it is some awesome tank. It is deadly vs other vehicles but against infantry and especially terminators its not that cool and this appears to be the edition of the infantry. I might have to look up the stats on a Destroyer or Marauder bomber just to match the theme of my army. The sword is even less good if they equip it for anti-charging, not all it has is mostly a big anti-vehicle unit that ate up a quarter or more of points.

[NatBrannigan]

I'll let you know on the Infernus but it'll be a little way off. My current queue of things to buy and put together are 6 Bullgryns, 10 Infantry to replace whatever is missing from squads now my Heavy Weapons are better off elsewhere, A Heavy Flamer Chimera (maybe changing to a Hellhound), 30 Conscripts to be made from Genestealer cultists (the mining ones) and a Manticore or fancy Basilisk.

 

I also want to coble together a Mortar squad and some Missile Launchers out of spare parts...

 

After all that I'll probably add an Infernus!

 

As for superheavies, what a shame the Vanquisher is just about the worst thing we have to deal with them...

[mmimzie]

Dual HF Chimeras are great, they are basically a mini Hellhound with transport capacity. I don't even think of them as Tranports but as shock assault vehicles. The key to making to really cost effective though is make sure they are transporting something that wants to be close. Flamer/melta shotgun vets, Bullgryns, Death Korps Engineers (probably the best choice). You have to play aggressive with it to get the most out of those flamers, but if you do it pays off. An all mech list centered around mechanized inf such as those above (though even infantry squads with flamers or plasma/meltas are fine to keep it cheap) riding in HF Chimeras has worked well for me because the heavier tanks (LR or Baneblade) soak up all the AT firepower while the Chimeras and HHs get in close. Move+Advance+Smoke launchers is a great way to ensure your T7 vehicles are in a great position turn 1.

I've used the chimera in that way, and I sort of like the valkyrie in that role abit better. Mainly because the chimera struggles a lot if you don't go first. If your going second the smoke is kind of useless as it's quite likely someone has moved into range yo get flamed. While you also take a turn of shooting without smoke up. Also to get the guys inside out you need to be in position the turn before.

 

The valkyrie on the other hand always has -1 to be hit. She's a fat bird with a few extra wounds. He personal dps is abit meh, but the ball also serves as a vehicle with a sniper almost. You can fly right next to characters if any gaps exist that let you land near them. Then you take pot shots. The vets with flamers and melta also get to pop out on turn one during the flight path. Since they are dismebarking and not deep striking, you can move 6" closer and get into melta/flamer range turn 1.

 

After it payload has been dropped the ball can go help contest objectives all over the map.

 

Both are cool, and glad the flamer chimera is having its day haha.

[Jam Master Flex]

My 2 devil dogs saw action today for the first time ever vs Guilliman, a detachment of Primaris marines and regular marines.

 

They were both fantastic, took apart a squad of terminators and a tactical squad while holding a couple of objectives in the meantime.

 

I had four 5 man squads of scions which didn't do much other than bog down his units in places.

 

My decided not to run Pask for once and regretted not having orders

 

Didn't matter either way he conceded at the end of turn 3 as I'd managed to hold due to me getting good tactical objectives.

 

I was pleased with my devil dogs and wish they'd been given the chance to do more!

[wulfgar hammerfist]

Thanks for the advice against Knights.  I will take another look at my list and see what I can do.  I might try a mixed AM/Elysian list to include a few more deep strike threats and perhaps a flyer or two.

[FallenSoldiers]

I think the answer to knights is a mass of chaff - cultists, Conscripts, what-have-you to bog them down in combat.

 

As for heavy armour - lots of rocket launchers and lascannons; focus fire, kill a tank at a time then move on to the next.

 

Shadowswords - excellent against opposing Lords of War, rubbish against anything else.

 

I'm going to get myself a Banesword though; because the Quake Cannon (?) is a nice big bang that is pretty good at killing infantry as well as vehicles and Lords of War.

 Sadly you cant bog Knights down with chaff units.  They can just walk over you and out of combat without any penalty!

 

I'm planning on running a Shadowsword in an upcoming tourney.  I took the LC/HF sponsons.  My plan is to use it to obliterate anything that's Titanic and then start to charge it into blobs of infantry.  You'll get the infantry stuck in combat, the tank stuck in combat for a turn (so no getting shot at) while still firing those heavy flamers and lascanons into the melee with the Volcano Cannon blasting overhead at any random target that sticks its head out.  

 

I figure this will draw enough attention to let my manticores and HWT sit in the backfield and rain down some punishment!  

 

Or it could all blow up in my face!  Thankfully, the Emperor will provide me with plenty more freshfaced boys to throw at the filthy xenos and heretics!

[The Catachan Devil]

I think the answer to knights is a mass of chaff - cultists, Conscripts, what-have-you to bog them down in combat.

 

 

I do agree that taking lots of chaff is a good way to keep from being tabled vs knights/superheavy lists.

 

However unless your intention is to use the chaff as a speed bump to slow them down assaulting; don't try to charge a superheavy with chaff - you'll get rekt. 

 

You can't bog them down in CC like you could in 7th. The superheavies have rules which mean they can fall back and blast you (or whatever or who ever they like) with all their weapons no problem. Then they can then charge you with lots of high stength armour negating attacks. 

 

CCing a superheavy doesn't prevent them from shooting like it did in previous editions. 

 

 

 

Edited July 13, 2017 by The Catachan Devil

[duz_]

Titanic feet is also ~12 WS3+ attacks at S6 I believe which doesn't bode well for Guardsmen.

Your best bet is hiding in Ruins where they cannot enter ;)

[FallenSoldiers]

Titanic feet is also ~12 WS3+ attacks at S6 I believe which doesn't bode well for Guardsmen.

Your best bet is hiding in Ruins where they cannot enter

 

I second this!  My infantry will hold the 2nd story of any building while your pathetic knight is trapped outside!  *insert evil laughter here*

[Mitchverr]

Whats peoples thoughts on the Arvus Lighter?

 

Its a cheaper option to valks for getting people from A to B, though it is also weaker and less dakka, it can still carry 12 men and has a specific "deep strike" rule for the vehicle.

 

Though theres the redundancy of scions/elysians ofcourse which damages all the "fly transports" value, just wondering how it looks for other stuff.

[mmimzie]

Titanic feet is also ~12 WS3+ attacks at S6 I believe which doesn't bode well for Guardsmen.

Your best bet is hiding in Ruins where they cannot enter ;)

You'd kill 6 or 7 guardsmen not a very productive use of the knights time to be honest. You dont even finish off a whole squad most of the time.

[Gen.Steiner]

I didn't realise Knights could just leave the combat!

That's that option out then.

Er... tactical withdrawal into cover from which lots of shooting can take place in (relative) safety?

[duz_]

 

Titanic feet is also ~12 WS3+ attacks at S6 I believe which doesn't bode well for Guardsmen.

Your best bet is hiding in Ruins where they cannot enter

You'd kill 6 or 7 guardsmen not a very productive use of the knights time to be honest. You dont even finish off a whole squad most of the time.

 

 

Correct, the Knight isn't going out of his way to stomp some Conscripts.

 

My point was more if you try to charge to tarpit him, its probably going to end real bad and once he's done pulping them he's just going to stride straight over the top of them (special rules allow him too) and keep heading towards his target / destination. 

[Gen.Steiner]

Take a Knight of your own? :/