Officers for Abhuman Regiments?

[leinglo]

In an all abhuman regiment (as in one that hasn’t been broken up into auxiliary units to be attached to other regiments), who would have overall command? Would an officer be brought in from outside the regiment? Would the senior commissar have command duties? It would practically have to be one of those two in the case of stuff like ogryn or ratlings, but if the abhumans in question had the faculties for it, would the Munitorum (or Ecclesiarchy, or Inquisition, or anyone, really) actually condone an abhuman officer being in command of anything?

 

The thing is, there really isn't any concrete fluff to align with here. While there have been a few references to full abhuman regiments, beastmen being particularly of note, there have been zero details as to how such regiments function or are commanded. So in the end, I suppose it’s really a question of what would make the most sense.

 

Thoughts? Theories? Suggestions?

[Tallarn Commander]

Good question. The old 3rd edition Catachan codex did note that Catachans and ogryns got along fabulously. Perhaps ogryn regiments traditionally have Deathworld officers?

[Formerly Wu]

The Only War supplement Shield of Humanity focuses on support specialists like ogryn and ratlings, and gives two examples of abhuman regiments. The ratling regiment is headed up by a ratling colonel, while the highest ranking ogryn is a "Bone'ead first class."

 

Both of these regiments are used as auxiliary forces and so are broken up, but the implication seems to be that ratling regiment (if ever allowed to operate as a unit) would have a mostly ratling command structure. In the case of the ogryns it's made obvious that they would require a human command, so it's probable that a unified ogryn regiment would have a skeleton crew of human caretakers to lead, organize, and clean up after their ogryn charges.

[duz_]

I noticed that today too as I perused one of the indicies.

 

I guess its really up to you. Personally I really like the idea of an Inquisitor or Priest who has their own mini detachment of Ogryns so they can go wage their own mini crusade!

[Plasmablasts]

I have a home-brew mixed abhuman regiment in my head whose senior officer has been "promoted" there after disobeying/reinterpreting orders. His unapproved actions led to successful completion of the mission, so summary execution was deemed churlish. Elevation from platoon to company commander was the apparent reward; being assigned to babysitting Ogryns more accurately reflected the views of the Commissariat.

 

I imagine, given the deep prejudices within the Imperium against abhumans, most abhuman regiments will have "normal" human senior staff, at least for the purpose of liaising with other regiments and Imperial institutions, even when they might have abhuman officers entirely competent to command.

 

On the other hand, some abhumans, like Beastmen, are raised as regiments almost purely to act as cannon fodder, so probably don't need much more than Commissars shouting "Charge! Towards those big guns over there!"

Edited June 8, 2017 by Plasmablasts

[Chaplain Raeven]

How awesome would it be to have a kit where you can upgrade a bone'ead to Commissar. Complete with tiny Commissar hat and a too small jacket around his chest

[H311fi5h]

I'd love the idea of an abhuman regiment that lost all of its human officers in battle, so the Ogryns took their ranks and insignia imitating the Imperial Guard command structure without knowing how it actually works and what they are good for. Sort of like a cargo cult.

Edited June 8, 2017 by H311fi5h

[Captain_Krash]

Love this idea!!! I'd love for Black Library to write about a regiment where abhumans out number there human soldiers would be epic

 

Krash

[Inso]

I would tend towards a human command squad with additional Commissars and abhuman advisers as required.

 

For beastmen, a standard human command squad with a couple of high ranking beastmen (clan leaders and shaman) as advisers.

For ratlings, a standard human command squad with a couple of high ranking halflings as advisers and a commissar (seeing as halflings can be a little on the criminal side).

For ogryn, a standard human command squad with lots of commissars... Boneheads are surgically enhanced and are few and far between so I don't see further upgrades to higher ranks for ogryn.

For squats, they do not need human command because they have their own command structure... however, there may be times where commissars could be attached to 'ensure the emperor's will is adhered to'.

 

All this is just thoughts and has no basis on fluff... just what I think :)

[leinglo]

I have a home-brew mixed abhuman regiment in my head whose senior officer has been "promoted" there after disobeying/reinterpreting orders. His unapproved actions led to successful completion of the mission, so summary execution was deemed churlish. Elevation from platoon to company commander was the apparent reward; being assigned to babysitting Ogryns more accurately reflected the views of the Commissariat.

 

I imagine, given the deep prejudices within the Imperium against abhumans, most abhuman regiments will have "normal" human senior staff, at least for the purpose of liaising with other regiments and Imperial institutions, even when they might have abhuman officers entirely competent to command.

That's basically the scenario I was mulling over myself for my own homebrew, but why stop with the commander? In fact, any humans in an abhuman regiment would probably be there mostly because of discipline, politics, no other place for them, or they volunteer because they're just a bit nuts. Stuff like a commissar that shot a coward with powerful relatives, or a chief medic fleeing malpractice charges, or an enginseer who's a borderline heretek, etc. Really characterful opportunities there.

 

As for a commanding officer, I'm split between having a human there to be "technically" in charge while an abhuman major does most the actual commanding, or having an abhuman colonel who has to rely on the commissar to liaise with most other regiments and attend formal functions and briefings.

[mertbl]

Can you do multiple regiments in the same army? Like a battalion detachment of <cadians> with a vanguard detachment of <mutant auxilla>

[Plasmablasts]

Can you do multiple regiments in the same army? Like a battalion detachment of <cadians> with a vanguard detachment of <mutant auxilla>

Do you mean Ogryns, Bullgryns and Ratlings with the Militarum Auxilia keyword or, for example, Beastmen counting as Veterans or other Infantry with designated as <Regiment> = <Mutant Auxiliary> ? Actually, I think all of them are allowed, even within the same detachment.

 

If you're mixing <Regiments>, e.g. Cadians and Catachans, I think that's permitted, but there would be limitations on some characters in terms of which <Regiment> they are allowed to buff.

[Lysere]

 

Can you do multiple regiments in the same army? Like a battalion detachment of <cadians> with a vanguard detachment of <mutant auxilla>

Do you mean Ogryns, Bullgryns and Ratlings with the Militarum Auxilia keyword or, for example, Beastmen counting as Veterans or other Infantry with designated as <Regiment> = <Mutant Auxiliary> ? Actually, I think all of them are allowed, even within the same detachment.

 

If you're mixing <Regiments>, e.g. Cadians and Catachans, I think that's permitted, but there would be limitations on some characters in terms of which <Regiment> they are allowed to buff.

I was looking at it as well and I believe this to be the case. That's the main reason the scions have the exception that you can't pick non scions to be the same regiment as them.

 

So you could take an officer of some kind for giving ogryns and ratlings orders but they won't be giving orders to anything else.

[Trokair]

I would imagine that it would be a Commissar as commander. Gaunt is not the only Colonel-Commissar after all, though they are far and few between.

 

Or as some said normal human officers (with a heavy Commissar presence) do the organising, liaising and what not. It probably depends on the abhuman.

 

I have played against a count as beastman abhuman IG army (4^th edition I think, where you could take certain regiments/upgrades to make them more closecombat orientated) where the Officers where all converted into beastment apart from one guy in the command squad who had a big vox. The joke was that this unlucky guardsmen relays orders from human officers to the abhuman officers.

 

Personally for my Ogryn Regiment that I am doing for 8th edition I am using Karamazov as an extra smart BONE head who can function as the Officer for the force. Rule wise the army is keyword Imperium rather than Imperial Guard and Karamazov has Ogryn like stats in 8^th, though with better leadership and wounds as befitting a Leader, his leadership aura is going to be him shouting at the other Ogryns to satay and fight.

 

 I just wish Nork Deddog was a HQ and had a Ogryn/Bullgryn buffing aura in addition to his current rules, would be so much simpler then. 

[mertbl]

I feel like I need an officer for the bullgryn to get orders. I'm pretty sure my cadian commander can not do it.

 

 

Can you do multiple regiments in the same army? Like a battalion detachment of <cadians> with a vanguard detachment of <mutant auxilla>

Do you mean Ogryns, Bullgryns and Ratlings with the Militarum Auxilia keyword or, for example, Beastmen counting as Veterans or other Infantry with designated as <Regiment> = <Mutant Auxiliary> ? Actually, I think all of them are allowed, even within the same detachment.

 

If you're mixing <Regiments>, e.g. Cadians and Catachans, I think that's permitted, but there would be limitations on some characters in terms of which <Regiment> they are allowed to buff.

[Trokair]

I feel like I need an officer for the bullgryn to get orders. I'm pretty sure my cadian commander can not do it.

 

 

As far as I understand the rules Bullgryns can not be given orders as they do not have the <Regiment> Keyword and Voice of Command specifies friendly infantry with the same <Regiment> as the officer.  

[H311fi5h]

 

I feel like I need an officer for the bullgryn to get orders. I'm pretty sure my cadian commander can not do it.

 

 

As far as I understand the rules Bullgryns can not be given orders as they do not have the <Regiment> Keyword and Voice of Command specifies friendly infantry with the same <Regiment> as the officer.  

 

 

All Abhuman units have the MILITARUM AUXILLA keyword, which appears to be their regimental keyword.

The question is whether you are allowed to give the MILITARUM AUXILLA keyword to an officer. The rules specifically mention that you are not allowed to give anything that doesn't already have it the MILITARUM TEMPESTUS keyword. However following that, the rule states "you can use ANY of the other regiments..."

So RAW you can make a Company Commander MILITARUM AUXILLA.

The only argument you could try to make is MILITARUM AUXILLA not being a regiment. But I don't see any basis for that claim, since the keyword is in the exact same place where other units have keywords such as CADIAN, CATACHAN, MILITARUM TEMPESTUS, or < REGIMENT >.

 

I don't know if this is intended by the writers, and I hope it gets FAQ'ed soon. I would not do this without talking to my opponent at this point, or asking the tournament organizer. Even though it's technically legal, I think it's common courtesy to ask first.

[Lysere]

 

 

I feel like I need an officer for the bullgryn to get orders. I'm pretty sure my cadian commander can not do it.

 

As far as I understand the rules Bullgryns can not be given orders as they do not have the <Regiment> Keyword and Voice of Command specifies friendly infantry with the same <Regiment> as the officer.

They have a specific regiment in the same way a marine character has a specific chapter. You can't choose theirs but you can choose what regiment you make everything else, and if the officer has the same regiment they can give them orders.

[Bronze Katana]

 

 

I feel like I need an officer for the bullgryn to get orders. I'm pretty sure my cadian commander can not do it.

As far as I understand the rules Bullgryns can not be given orders as they do not have the <Regiment> Keyword and Voice of Command specifies friendly infantry with the same <Regiment> as the officer.

They have a specific regiment in the same way a marine character has a specific chapter. You can't choose theirs but you can choose what regiment you make everything else, and if the officer has the same regiment they can give them orders.

 

 

My Imperial Guard army is a disgraced regiment given to the commissariat to play with, lots of conscripts and ogryns (used to run penal legion squads also in earlier editions).

Their history is essentially Militarum Auxillia. 

 

That said, I'd probably feel dirty giving the order 'fix bayonets' to my 6 power maul toting bullgryn squad. That's a whole lotta free pain dished out right there, when I'm not sure the rules as intended support it. RAW though, sure.

[Plasmablasts]

Well, the FAQ makes it pretty clear that keywords are not intended to allow units to benefit from rules that wouldn't normally work on them. Therefore, ordering abhumans seems to be conclusively forbidden.

 

However, given the variety of support characters available to the Guard, buffing different types of unit (tank commanders, masters of ordnance, officers of the Fleet), there seems to be room for an "Auxilia Officer". Who knows, maybe one day...

[mertbl]

I felt like the faq was more talking about chaos "ultramarines" or elder "hive fleet kraken".

[Kontakt]

The rules writers have specifically said that you can not give orders to ogryns or bullgryns. This was stated live on warhammer tv's twitch stream.

[mertbl]

Honestly a twitch stream is meaningless. It needs to be in print.

[Bronze Katana]

Honestly a twitch stream is meaningless. It needs to be in print.

Agreed. I don't watch Twitch. I would have never even known it was talked about until mentioned here.