8th Ed, am I ok?

[Smith Kappa]

Good evening,

I'm new to the forums and like all of you I am going to be new to 8th Edition. I like to be competitive on a casual level, if that makes sense. I have a few concerns and queries about my army in particular and I hope to get some constructive feedback. I collect Imperial Fists heavily based on the 'Sentinels of Terra' supplement codex as well as being a drop pod assault themed army.

To begin with my two main concerns are Sgt Garadon and drop pods. Sgt Garadon is my HQ of choice throughout 7th edition, he is a character upgraded from a tactical squad sergeant for a total of 75 points making the squad a HQ choice. He has the rule set of a captain and can take no additional upgrades, his wargear is simply a special bolt pistol that ignores cover called the 'spartein', a standard power fist and of-course an iron halo. He isn't in the index's or codex's for 8th edition, yet various youtubers have promised that supplements will come within the year. With the new rule (I don't know its name) to do with special characters not being able to join units? I'm not certain I will get my Sgt Garadon back at all, can anyone shed some light or education for me here?

Secondly and possibly my largest concern being drop pods tripling in point cost. I currently have 7 drop pods in my 2000 odd 7th edition point list, all together I have my captain as above, 6 tactical squadrons   and 3 devastator squadrons   with a aegis defence line. With money always a large deciding factor when it comes to warhammer I don't want to have to replace any of my army, my main question being can i play this army at a casually competitive level or am I going to loose a lot more games?

Chapter Tactics + Supplement benefits
My Devastators before had a special rule known as tank hunter allowing me to re-roll wounds if they did not penetrate. Also my army was built to accommodate the boltor drill from my chapter tactics. Neither of these are in 8th edition as far as I know. Though my devastators will be able to split fire now making them more powerful, loosing these two rules has really broke the spirit of my army, and my own. Again various youtubers are convinced we will get chapter tactics and supplements within the following year, what do you think?

To summarize;
So far from what I have gathered specifically about my army isn't looking good. The point trade off with drop pods, loosing my chapter rules and the daunting concern of having to replace my HQ has puts me off the new edition. Not only this but there is icing on the cake, I have a really bad feeling Primaris Marines are going to replace the Space Marines completely and sadly the fluff behind it could have been better, but this is a different topic for another thread.

 

Thanks in advance for any constructive feedback

[Smith Kappa]

Well its been a day (felt like more) and no replies, so to conclude I think I'm screwed if I want to win games or enjoy my army for what it was. Some of my questions still stand but I am confident that ill finally be showing my eldar some love instead in this next edition. 7th was alright besides unbound armies and formations making opponents really difficult, I hope this edition is of a similar level of enjoyment.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Smith Kappa

[LucidNinja]

I'm going to give a very short honest answer here.

For the moment you have too many pods, drop pods have been nurfed in the fact that only half your army can be in reserve. The points increase to them is valid I believe but time will tell.

 

Sergeant Garadon is unheard of for now and yes for now officially unusable... Sorry. Play him as a vanilla captain or proxy primaris lieutenant...

 

Characters can't join units anymore but this is just a change of game mechanics and you'll adapt with time.

 

Now for the positive, chapter tactics are coming, I think they'll be sooner than later. I'd almost guarantee before September... Until then you have time to get used to the new game.

 

Devastator squads are the new black also,split fire, only -1 to hit after moving and everything being able to hurt anything are all advantages. Points wise they are also quite conservative.

 

We are all in this boat together brother and while things have changed hopefully this edition will be much more fun than the last.

[Smith Kappa]

Your right for the most part.

• I do have to many pods for an 8th edition list.
• I too recon I won't have my HQ in any future supplement because it will contradict the new rule. Sgt Garadon was a cheap HQ choice and complimented my drop pod army by allowing me to have that additional tactical squad without breaking the force organization chart, it does blow having to proxy a captain as him and loosing this unique HQ choice.

 

Drop Pod Nerf

I disagree with the drop pod nerfs, they have been nerfed on almost all fronts;

1. cost increase
2. reserve restrictions
3. deployment restriction
4. unit restriction for delivery

Its an immobile vehicle and once landed it is little threat to anyone. I don't understand this nerf to be honest with you, why were these nerfs necessary? If they didn't want sternguard with combi weapons lighting things up on turn two they should have not allowed them to use the transport either.

[Verger]

Drop Pod Nerf

I disagree with the drop pod nerfs, they have been nerfed on almost all fronts;

1. cost increase
2. reserve restrictions
3. deployment restriction
4. unit restriction for delivery

Its an immobile vehicle and once landed it is little threat to anyone. I don't understand this nerf to be honest with you, why were these nerfs necessary? If they didn't want sternguard with combi weapons lighting things up on turn two they should have not allowed them to use the transport either.

 

1. All vehicles became move expensive

2. You no longer scatter, making the half that does arrive many times more effective

3. You can charge and shoot straight after podding

 

When you take points 2 and 3 into account, it makes up for a lot of the points cost increases.  They're not balanced as a single entity - but for what they can do for the unit in them.  Its kinda like paying for the now highly effective deepstrike option and the tactical versatility that comes with. :)

[Smith Kappa]

 

1. All vehicles became move expensive

2. You no longer scatter, making the half that does arrive many times more effective

3. You can charge and shoot straight after podding

 

When you take points 2 and 3 into account, it makes up for a lot of the points cost increases.  They're not balanced as a single entity - but for what they can do for the unit in them.  Its kinda like paying for the now highly effective deepstrike option and the tactical versatility that comes with.

 

 

1. I do believe no other vehicles almost tripled in point cost.

2. This is true and it takes out a small portion of the fun to be had with scattering, also it was quite accurate in cities of death as you were unable to land on building terrain. you now must drop 9" from an enemy unit which takes away from the accuracy it now currently has. To be honest I won't really fight on this point you have stated, as I can come to terms with it as being neither a nerf nor an improvement.

3. In the previous edition you could move and rapid fire or move, shoot bolt pistols then charge so nothing new at all with this statement.

 

Just as the previous edition you have basically stated what it's function is in your small paragraph down bellow. Its function hasn't changed, though trying to justify 103 points to transport a squad worth 140 points for one turn only is a joke. Don't you agree? For the tactical advantage it gives I would be better off spending the points elsewhere to guarantee more firepower on the battlefield. Now I know its not all about killing one another, a drop pod assault army isn't worth your points, however if you want to just take one drop pod to harass your enemy or secure an objective far away then sure maybe its worth 103 points to you, but there are more cost efficient alternatives now, I believe we wont see any drop pods in tournaments or competitive games anymore.

 

Hope this helps you see my take on the Drop Pod

[Rizara]

IN previous editions you could not charge upon arriving from a drop pod, as they are not assault vehicles, just like you couldn't charge from a rhino either because it was an assault vehicle. All you could do was land, move out, and shoot, but you couldn't shoot heavy weapons. This edition you can now move out, shoot (including heavy weapons) and or choose to charge if you rather do that. Assault vehicle restrictions have been lifted. Edited June 9, 2017 by Midnight Angel

[LucidNinja]

As said, drop pods get you where you want, without scatter, on the turn you choose, being able to assault from and shoot heavy weapons with only a minor debuff. You can also put 2 units in a pod, 8 muli-meltas within 9" of a vehicle turn 1... I think that makes up for the points quite easily. I also think 7th ed pods were too cheap for what they did...

[Verger]

As said, drop pods get you where you want, without scatter, on the turn you choose, being able to assault from and shoot heavy weapons with only a minor debuff. You can also put 2 units in a pod, 8 muli-meltas within 9" of a vehicle turn 1... I think that makes up for the points quite easily. I also think 7th ed pods were too cheap for what they did...

All of this.

 

Kappa - you can literally put TWO of those Devastator Squads into one Droppod now and really concentrate that firepower when you need it, almost exactly WHEN you need it, too.  Its a huge improvement on what you had before and I think the points actually reflect what they do now, rather than the pittance we paid in the past.

[Smith Kappa]

Ok ill give them a shot and hope for the best, thanks for the replies everyone, much appreciated

[Verger]

You're welcome! And remember - you're a Son Of Dorn! You will persevere, brother!

[d36williams]

I lament the loss of Centurions in Drop Pods. Assault Centurions have such a movement crutch. I wish assault launchers gave them better movement or something.

[Iron Lord]

Some vehicles can now transport Centurions though. Land Raiders, Stormravens, Storm Eagles, etc - they take up 3 slots.

[Clymer]

Not trying to sound like a jerk, although I might accidentally, but all-drop pod armies were one of the many things that was wrong with 7th edition. So while I totally feel you in terms of losing the usability of an army you liked to play, and a desire to not make another huge investment in radically overhauling your army/collection, I must, as respectfully as I can, say good riddance to your drop pod army.

[Nurgleprobe]

IN previous editions you could not charge upon arriving from a drop pod, as they are not assault vehicles, just like you couldn't charge from a rhino either because it was an assault vehicle. All you could do was land, move out, and shoot, but you couldn't shoot heavy weapons. This edition you can now move out, shoot (including heavy weapons) and or choose to charge if you rather do that. Assault vehicle restrictions have been lifted.

Well you can shoot and charge out, but you're not able to move out, seing as it arrives at the end of a movement phase (not counting the 3" ofc). ;P 

[LucidNinja]

OP, have you played a game of 8th yet? How are you doing?