HH Book 46: Ruinstorm

[Lucerne]

  On 10/18/2017 at 7:11 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

Can we get a full spoilers list, por favor?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

All that really matters from this novel is that Sanguinus is going to try and redeem Horus because he's an idiot, Guilliman's not even going to try to get to Terra, and the Lion is off on a tour of the traitor homeworlds.

 

First half is the gang ending up at Davin and screwing up in their own unique ways- Guilliman plays with anathemes, the Lion argues with his sentient Warp engine, and Sanguinus is spooked by warp daemons. The second half is them getting back together, dealing with Chaotic shenanigans, and Sanguinus getting suckered into a warp portal by Warp mindwhammy/because he's drunk on Chaos temptation. Sanguinus says no, they get out, and they blow a hole in the literal Warp barrier and get through after the obligatory fight scene with the Pilgrim daemonfleet that is supposed to be something spooky to do with ships and characters I really don't care about, Iron Hands or something.

 

BUT NOW FOR THE MORE DETAILED RECAP.

 

The gang sets off from Imperium Secundus. Sanguinus is still not happy about the whole heretical fiasco. Guilliman knew there was a chance the Imperium was around and thought he'd "planned for it'" so chalk one up for the traitorous master of self-delusion.

 

Guilliman fails to do the galaxy a favor by not getting killed by a trio of word bearers in an ambush during an okayish space battle, considers being stupid and using a pair of anathemes for no readily apparent reason, and eventually isn't an idiot and destroys them before being a blue paperweight for the rest of the novel. He also uses Chaos-worshiping Navigators immediately afterwards because it'd be inconvenient not to use the chaos worshippers so that's another black eye for the "Avenging Son".

The Lion spends most of the novel having technical issues with his warp engine, and getting into arguments with it that go nowhere and getting into arguments with a captive Curze that also go nowhere. He's the first one to get to Davin to set up the plot with blowing up a chaotic daemonic battlefleet called the Pilgrim. There's some forced tension between him and Sanguinus when the latter frees Curze because plot and takes him down to Davin before going into a warp portal because he's basically drunk on warp temptation. Curze ends up right back in captivity while Sanguinus is MIA so that was pretty pointless.

Sanguinus mopes a lot about how he's going to die for most of the novel, gets suckered into a tempation scene with a few nice touches to it, then tells the daemon no. The proto-Sanguinor- who was the poor sap Marine Sanguinus had take his place as his public spokesperson and secretary during the Emperor Sanguinus farce- sacrifices himself to get him out of the deathtrap. Sanguinus apparently takes a blow to the head at the end of the novel because he decides putting Curze in stasis and shoving him out of the airlock rather than just...shooting him and derailing all this destiny nonsense is a great idea, then promptly decides to try and change destiny after believing in it being inevitable for most of the book up to barely a page earlier by...redeeming Horus. When he's just decided Curze shouldn't be redeemed, because reasons.

Some raven guard and iron hand from side stories or whatnot and the ship that apparently got lost at Pythos show up as side characters and the main antagonist of the second act as the "Pilgrim" respectively. I'm sure someone who actually cared about those stories gives a damn.

At the end, the three stooges decide to be useless, go on a traitor homeworld wrecking spree, and go die at Terra respectively. Guilliman's response to Sanguinus declaring his death is inevitable is to suggest he can help him get there to die by not going to Terra himself, then angsting about his own imminent cowardice like a complete imbecile when it's entirely self-inflicted.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Ugolino

[Kelborn]

In order to have a relatively decent summary, subtract the salt and the humble opinion of its composer. ;)

[Blindhamster]

I'm almost half way through and the above does just come across as hyper negative compared to what I've read so far.

[rendingon1+]

  On 10/19/2017 at 10:40 AM, Ugolino said:

 

  On 10/18/2017 at 7:11 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

Can we get a full spoilers list, por favor?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

All that really matters from this novel is that Sanguinus is going to try and redeem Horus because he's an idiot, Guilliman's not even going to try to get to Terra, and the Lion is off on a tour of the traitor homeworlds.

 

First half is the gang ending up at Davin and screwing up in their own unique ways- Guilliman plays with anathemes, the Lion argues with his sentient Warp engine, and Sanguinus is spooked by warp daemons. The second half is them getting back together, dealing with Chaotic shenanigans, and Sanguinus getting suckered into a warp portal by Warp mindwhammy/because he's drunk on Chaos temptation. Sanguinus says no, they get out, and they blow a hole in the literal Warp barrier and get through after the obligatory fight scene with the Pilgrim daemonfleet that is supposed to be something spooky to do with ships and characters I really don't care about, Iron Hands or something.

 

BUT NOW FOR THE MORE DETAILED RECAP.

 

The gang sets off from Imperium Secundus. Sanguinus is still not happy about the whole heretical fiasco. Guilliman knew there was a chance the Imperium was around and thought he'd "planned for it'" so chalk one up for the traitorous master of self-delusion.

 

Guilliman fails to do the galaxy a favor by not getting killed by a trio of word bearers in an ambush during an okayish space battle, considers being stupid and using a pair of anathemes for no readily apparent reason, and eventually isn't an idiot and destroys them before being a blue paperweight for the rest of the novel. He also uses Chaos-worshiping Navigators immediately afterwards because it'd be inconvenient not to use the chaos worshippers so that's another black eye for the "Avenging Son".

The Lion spends most of the novel having technical issues with his warp engine, and getting into arguments with it that go nowhere and getting into arguments with a captive Curze that also go nowhere. He's the first one to get to Davin to set up the plot with blowing up a chaotic daemonic battlefleet called the Pilgrim. There's some forced tension between him and Sanguinus when the latter frees Curze because plot and takes him down to Davin before going into a warp portal because he's basically drunk on warp temptation. Curze ends up right back in captivity while Sanguinus is MIA so that was pretty pointless.

Sanguinus mopes a lot about how he's going to die for most of the novel, gets suckered into a tempation scene with a few nice touches to it, then tells the daemon no. The proto-Sanguinor- who was the poor sap Marine Sanguinus had take his place as his public spokesperson and secretary during the Emperor Sanguinus farce- sacrifices himself to get him out of the deathtrap. Sanguinus apparently takes a blow to the head at the end of the novel because he decides putting Curze in stasis and shoving him out of the airlock rather than just...shooting him and derailing all this destiny nonsense is a great idea, then promptly decides to try and change destiny after believing in it being inevitable for most of the book up to barely a page earlier by...redeeming Horus. When he's just decided Curze shouldn't be redeemed, because reasons.

Some raven guard and iron hand from side stories or whatnot and the ship that apparently got lost at Pythos show up as side characters and the main antagonist of the second act as the "Pilgrim" respectively. I'm sure someone who actually cared about those stories gives a damn.

At the end, the three stooges decide to be useless, go on a traitor homeworld wrecking spree, and go die at Terra respectively. Guilliman's response to Sanguinus declaring his death is inevitable is to suggest he can help him get there to die by not going to Terra himself, then angsting about his own imminent cowardice like a complete imbecile when it's entirely self-inflicted.

 

After the second reading I came to similar...conclusions. There's also a lot of mind numbing "logic" used by primarchs to plan/expalin things such as:

  Reveal hidden contents

"If stuff get's harder that means... we're going in the right direction!"

or

"Hey, it can't be coincidence that x happened... so we're doing the good thing!"

and

"I think it is fate! Let's do this!"

[Blindhamster]

Re: hitting more resistance going in a certain direction, it makes perfect sense that implies it's the direction they don't want you going.

The rest... eh, maybe. Though the fate one is a problem consistent whenever sanguinius or kurze are used seeing as both knew their fates. So hardly an issue with this book alone.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

also, the specific instance of "its harder that way, it must be the right way!" is a theoretical from a librarian, which is proved incorrect.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Blindhamster

[Marshal Rohr]

The ultimate decision to divide the forces makes sense when you view it from the macro level operational strategy.

[Daddywarcrimes]

  On 10/17/2017 at 8:42 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

Was there any movement or information beyond the Primarchs storyline? Details of organization or special units we might see coming down the pipe?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Nope.  And the one that would have been a perfect opportunity to show off the Dark Angels doing Dark Angel stuff is instead done by the Ultramarines.  The Dark Angels are only present in the story as a faceless mass of indistinct gunpigs.  A bunch of random ships are mentioned by name, but they do nothing whatsoever to distinguish themselves from any of the other horde of interchangable cruisers and frigates.  The Lion comes up a lot, but the 1st Legion itself is only slightly more involved in the story than the 8th, and only Night Lord in the book is Curze.

[bluntblade]

  On 10/18/2017 at 6:41 PM, Karthak said:

So I'm reading some fairly ridiculous spoilers on the topic of spacestations and the size thereof...

We have already had Dark Age space stations/Warp Gates vast enough that their docking plates can fit star forts.

[DogWelder]

  On 10/19/2017 at 2:31 PM, Daddywarcrimes said:

 

  On 10/17/2017 at 8:42 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

Was there any movement or information beyond the Primarchs storyline? Details of organization or special units we might see coming down the pipe?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Nope.  And the one that would have been a perfect opportunity to show off the Dark Angels doing Dark Angel stuff is instead done by the Ultramarines.  The Dark Angels are only present in the story as a faceless mass of indistinct gunpigs.  A bunch of random ships are mentioned by name, but they do nothing whatsoever to distinguish themselves from any of the other horde of interchangable cruisers and frigates.  The Lion comes up a lot, but the 1st Legion itself is only slightly more involved in the story than the 8th, and only Night Lord in the book is Curze.

 

 

I think that was done in order to show off the evolution of the Ultramarines 22nd 'Nemesis' Chapter who Annadale put a lot of time and characterization into in his previous novel. The Chapter already has a fleshed out backstory from the FW books and we know it later becomes the Nemesis Chapter so I thought that it was cool how the authors are portraying how Successor Chapters in general are being formed even during the Heresy.

 

Wish that was present in more books.

[Marshal Rohr]

  On 10/19/2017 at 2:55 PM, DogWelder said:

 

  On 10/19/2017 at 2:31 PM, Daddywarcrimes said:

 

 

  On 10/17/2017 at 8:42 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

 

Was there any movement or information beyond the Primarchs storyline? Details of organization or special units we might see coming down the pipe?

  Reveal hidden contents

Nope. And the one that would have been a perfect opportunity to show off the Dark Angels doing Dark Angel stuff is instead done by the Ultramarines. The Dark Angels are only present in the story as a faceless mass of indistinct gunpigs. A bunch of random ships are mentioned by name, but they do nothing whatsoever to distinguish themselves from any of the other horde of interchangable cruisers and frigates. The Lion comes up a lot, but the 1st Legion itself is only slightly more involved in the story than the 8th, and only Night Lord in the book is Curze.

I think that was done in order to show off the evolution of the Ultramarines 22nd 'Nemesis' Chapter who Annadale put a lot of time and characterization into in his previous novel. The Chapter already has a fleshed out backstory from the FW books and we know it later becomes the Nemesis Chapter so I thought that it was cool how the authors are portraying how Successor Chapters in general are being formed even during the Heresy.

 

Wish that was present in more books.

It's overdone at this point. There's almost zero daylight between 40k and 30k. In the beginning we wanted a few Easter eggs here and there, but after those Easter eggs proved popular we got the Tyranid beacon, every second founding explained, ad infinitatum. At this point, it's tedious.

[Daddywarcrimes]

  On 10/19/2017 at 2:55 PM, DogWelder said:

 

  On 10/19/2017 at 2:31 PM, Daddywarcrimes said:

 

  On 10/17/2017 at 8:42 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

Was there any movement or information beyond the Primarchs storyline? Details of organization or special units we might see coming down the pipe?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Nope.  And the one that would have been a perfect opportunity to show off the Dark Angels doing Dark Angel stuff is instead done by the Ultramarines.  The Dark Angels are only present in the story as a faceless mass of indistinct gunpigs.  A bunch of random ships are mentioned by name, but they do nothing whatsoever to distinguish themselves from any of the other horde of interchangable cruisers and frigates.  The Lion comes up a lot, but the 1st Legion itself is only slightly more involved in the story than the 8th, and only Night Lord in the book is Curze.

 

 

I think that was done in order to show off the evolution of the Ultramarines 22nd 'Nemesis' Chapter who Annadale put a lot of time and characterization into in his previous novel. The Chapter already has a fleshed out backstory from the FW books and we know it later becomes the Nemesis Chapter so I thought that it was cool how the authors are portraying how Successor Chapters in general are being formed even during the Heresy.

 

Wish that was present in more books.

 

 

When a 2nd Founding Chapter is more fleshed out than the original Legion, something is very wrong with priorities.

[DogWelder]

  On 10/19/2017 at 5:08 PM, Daddywarcrimes said:

 

  On 10/19/2017 at 2:55 PM, DogWelder said:

 

  On 10/19/2017 at 2:31 PM, Daddywarcrimes said:

 

  On 10/17/2017 at 8:42 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

Was there any movement or information beyond the Primarchs storyline? Details of organization or special units we might see coming down the pipe?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Nope.  And the one that would have been a perfect opportunity to show off the Dark Angels doing Dark Angel stuff is instead done by the Ultramarines.  The Dark Angels are only present in the story as a faceless mass of indistinct gunpigs.  A bunch of random ships are mentioned by name, but they do nothing whatsoever to distinguish themselves from any of the other horde of interchangable cruisers and frigates.  The Lion comes up a lot, but the 1st Legion itself is only slightly more involved in the story than the 8th, and only Night Lord in the book is Curze.

 

 

I think that was done in order to show off the evolution of the Ultramarines 22nd 'Nemesis' Chapter who Annadale put a lot of time and characterization into in his previous novel. The Chapter already has a fleshed out backstory from the FW books and we know it later becomes the Nemesis Chapter so I thought that it was cool how the authors are portraying how Successor Chapters in general are being formed even during the Heresy.

 

Wish that was present in more books.

 

 

When a 2nd Founding Chapter is more fleshed out than the original Legion, something is very wrong with priorities.

 

 

? The Ultramarines have been treated extremely well by the Horus Heresy books and Forge Word iirc.

 

Know No Fear, Pharos and Unremembered Empire gave us a ton of lore and characterization of the 13th Legion, not to mention the dozen other short stories and side novels about 30k Ultras. 

[Daddywarcrimes]

  On 10/19/2017 at 5:26 PM, DogWelder said:

 

  On 10/19/2017 at 5:08 PM, Daddywarcrimes said:

 

  On 10/19/2017 at 2:55 PM, DogWelder said:

 

  On 10/19/2017 at 2:31 PM, Daddywarcrimes said:

 

  On 10/17/2017 at 8:42 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

Was there any movement or information beyond the Primarchs storyline? Details of organization or special units we might see coming down the pipe?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Nope.  And the one that would have been a perfect opportunity to show off the Dark Angels doing Dark Angel stuff is instead done by the Ultramarines.  The Dark Angels are only present in the story as a faceless mass of indistinct gunpigs.  A bunch of random ships are mentioned by name, but they do nothing whatsoever to distinguish themselves from any of the other horde of interchangable cruisers and frigates.  The Lion comes up a lot, but the 1st Legion itself is only slightly more involved in the story than the 8th, and only Night Lord in the book is Curze.

 

 

I think that was done in order to show off the evolution of the Ultramarines 22nd 'Nemesis' Chapter who Annadale put a lot of time and characterization into in his previous novel. The Chapter already has a fleshed out backstory from the FW books and we know it later becomes the Nemesis Chapter so I thought that it was cool how the authors are portraying how Successor Chapters in general are being formed even during the Heresy.

 

Wish that was present in more books.

 

 

When a 2nd Founding Chapter is more fleshed out than the original Legion, something is very wrong with priorities.

 

 

? The Ultramarines have been treated extremely well by the Horus Heresy books and Forge Word iirc.

 

Know No Fear, Pharos and Unremembered Empire gave us a ton of lore and characterization of the 13th Legion, not to mention the dozen other short stories and side novels about 30k Ultras. 

 

 

I don't mean the Ultramarines.  The 13th weren't the original legion.  The Dark Angels are the original legion, and the template on which all the others were initially built, and beyond that snippet, and their hand in the Rangdan Xenocides and wiping out the Thunder Warriors, we know almost nothing about them.  They have six orders within the legion, but no idea  how they relate to the actual organization of the 1st Legion.  

 

The Legion originally was organized into the Six Hosts, but at the same time also maintained a number, at least 9, of Orders that are written about as more conventionally organized fighting forces, with each member of the Legion presumably a member of both a Wing and an Order. The interence is that all the Orders were a result of the Terrans splitting the six hosts in a number of identical formations that contained elements of all six Hosts so that each order could address any threat it encountered that called for a specific Host to be assembled.  But this is all inference based on the titles of Terrans, and we do know that the Lion gave the Six Hosts their current names since the Ravenwing were a group of knights who served as spies and torturers who gathered intelligence on behalf of the knightly orders on Caliban.

 

The Dreadwing do closely parallel the lives of the Nemesis Chapter, since the use of the skull and hourglass by the Star Phantoms suggests that Redloss became a new Chapter Master and took the Dreadwing device for his new Chapter, but it leaves questions like "which Host was Corswain from?" and "why did the Chapter preserve the traditions of only two of the six hosts?" and "why didn't Corswain exterminate all Calibanite influence from the Legion when he was overseeing the 2nd Founding?".

[Roomsky]

Horus Heresy 46: Ruinstorm

 

So, despite the (in my opinion, unfair) amount of bile spat at Damnation of Pythos, David Annandale fulfills many of his fans’ wish, and returns to write a book that has some juicier plot and characters. Now, I enjoyed Pythos just fine, certainly not top 10 quality, but it was a good character study of the Iron Hands, filled with recognizable characters and some nice introspection. It’s probably my favorite of Annandale’s long-form work. That said, I’ve come to dread him as of late, as I thought his last two Beast Arises books were pretty bad.

 

So how does Ruinstorm compare to Pythos?

 

Poorly. The answer is poorly.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Plotting

Holy Annandale, lay off the action. The author who I’ve found works best with introspection gives himself almost no time to do so, as this book can’t seem to go ten pages without somebody shooting something.

 

When the synopsis talks about how this book is about three legions’ trip through the Ruinstorm, it wasn’t kidding. This book is about literally nothing else. Not a single quiet moment is had where characters can breathe, much less establish new ones. Establishing character moments are lacking in general, in fact, and picking this book up reads like you’re half way through something that may have actually bothered to give you a reason to care about these people before thrusting them into the daemon hordes.

 

Yes, I know this is part of a series, but most Heresy books take the time to get you acquainted with a particular author’s vision of a character. Horus Rising, False Gods, and Galaxy in Flames all do this, and they are about the same characters, and were published in the same year. Instead we must contend with the occasional asides from the primarchs while knee-deep in ichor, which isn’t necessarily the best spot for character building.

 

The onslaught of battles also took away from moments that would have been much stronger with more buildup. The Pilgrim is a looming force throughout the story, but we don’t get much mortal perspective to see how that fear might be setting in. The daemon factory, too, is a great set piece, but it comes off the heels of yet more action. What could have been a great first action scene ended up being an annoying second one.

 

So the concurrent plot with the titular Ruinstorm journey is the temptation of Sanguinius. I can’t shake the feeling that Annandale, perhaps knowing he wouldn’t be writing the future events described here, wanted to take his own crack at that fateful duel between primarchs. The result is my becoming tired of Sanguinius and Horus battling on the Vengeful Spirit before Sanguinius and Horus battle on the Vengeful Spirit. This isn’t build up, its diffusal. The series has always been guilty of clumsy foreshadowing, but this is just straight up describing those events.

 

Characters

I’ve heard others say that this is Sanguinius as he was meant to be portrayed.

 

                                                               http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/193/723/7b6.jpg

 

Yes, it’s nice to see the angel of wrath for once, and he is described as quite the force of nature in battle. I dislike primarch acrobatics, but when they’ve got wings they get a pass. That said, it sort of takes the piss out of his battles when he knows he won’t die. He feels a tad less angelic to me during about the fourth time he goes:

 

“Hmm, should I do the thing? Well, I do not die here, so I suppose it’s worth a try.”

 

Sangy gets really rote in this tale, is what I’m saying. Also, much as I thought the scene in a contextual vacuum was quite well done, the Curze and stasis-pod scene was more than a little frustrating. First of all, Sanguinius has no reason I can fathom for such spite against Curze. Yes, Curze has wrought much horror in Ultramar, but how many times has Sanguinius managed to see that softer side of him at this point? Several. More than that, Sanguinius comprehends what futuresight is like. Hell, by this point he’s done all he can to change fate, and it’s still on its course. Why would he deny Curze a chance for forgiveness? He knows Curze was doomed to his fate whether he wanted it or not. I can see Sangy doing such a thing to any other traitor, but it’s weirdly petty when done to Curze. Secondly, I’m now waiting in dread for the contrivance that will deliver Curze back to his legion. The guy’s story is basically just a bunch of wacky hijinks at this point.

 

The Lion and Guilliman are a bit all over the place. Jonson continues AoC’s trend of insisting on the most destructive solutions to his problems, but he doesn’t really have the caged beast personality Thorpe gave him, nor the Stoic knight of ADB, nor the secretive big bro of Abnett. He’s kind of just there, being the cold logic guy, I can’t recall much about him besides. Guilliman is an emotional wreck through the story, and while it is largely internal, because we don’t get to see much Guilliman through the eyes of others he comes across as tremendously fragile. The baggage might be more impactful if we got a few more marine’s eye views of him being completely opaque about those feelings.

 

Curze barely features, and is mostly a jibbering madman.

 

It’s nice to see Madail back, and I like how preachy he’s become despite not really acting that way back in Pythos. I also liked the Iron Hands and Raven Guard, perhaps because the only moment the book gives for a bit of quiet character work is for them. Not exactly ground-breaking shattered legions work, but I believed their relationship and their semi-reluctance to abandon the planet of refugees they watched over.

 

Prose

The prose was fine, nothing outstanding but entirely readable. The descriptions of the colossal warp structures were all well done, and a daemon forge world being the anchor for system-sized fortress was a neat idea.

 

Being that the entire book was flowery action scenes, there were a few times where it was clear Annandale ran out of new ways to describe daemons dying, so a few descriptors come across as eye-rollingly obtuse.

 

Other thoughts

 

I would have preferred the Sanguinor not have an origin at all, but I appreciate the anonymity of the particular legionary.

 

I was cringing at how hilariously perfect Sanguinius’ vision of the future in which he slays Horus was, so I was pleasantly surprised to find it was intentionally vainglorious.

 

The description of the warp constructs possibly “reaching into other systems” was a well done descriptor of scale, and while more nebulous, it was easy to feel the size of the fortress as well. Many sci-fi writers fail to properly communicate the size of immense interstellar bodies.

 

Besides Sanguinius’ treatment of Curze, no one did anything that struck me as especially stupid or ill-conceived. The primarchs, though far too open to us for my tastes, put a believable amount of thought into their actions, and the many disasters in their mission were the result of factors they couldn’t control, rather than things the author decided they just shouldn’t think about.

 

Overall

This book frustrates me because it’s almost certainly going to be better loved than Damnation of Pythos. I’m even more frustrated, because I would have loved to see the approach he took with Pythos applied to this plot. A creeping horror story and character study would have been so much more interesting than so much bolter porn. No gravitas was afforded to these cool locations Annandale thought up, they just appear and disappear in a flurry of bolt rounds. This could have been so much more, even in the hands of the same author. Despite a few neat moments, I really did not enjoy this one.

 

 

TL:DR – It wasn’t great.

Arbitrary numerical rating: 4/10

Edited October 28, 2017 by Roomsky

[veterannoob]

http://traffic.libsyn.com/combatphase/Ep_217_-_Ruinstorm_wDavid_Annandale.mp3

We talk our usual intro then David Annadale joins us to discuss the newest installment of the Horus Heresy: Ruinstorm!

@david_annandale

novapoenfoundation.org

http://davetaylorminiatures.com/

[godking]

Just finished the book this morning.

 

Loved it

 

1 Curze is the most shameful craven coward of all the primarchs who damn near had a catatonic shutdown when the possibility arose that not everything is written in stone and that fate can be averted like the overgrown emo goth kid he is.

 

2 Sanguinus is the bravest of the primarchs who actually tried too alter fate but chose for the greater to accept his fate even though it would cost him his sons future.

[D3L]

  On 10/25/2017 at 8:16 AM, godking said:

Just finished the book this morning.

 

Loved it

 

1 Curze is the most shameful craven coward of all the primarchs who damn near had a catatonic shutdown when the possibility arose that not everything is written in stone and that fate can be averted like the overgrown emo goth kid he is.

 

2 Sanguinus is the bravest of the primarchs who actually tried too alter fate but chose for the greater to accept his fate even though it would cost him his sons future.

I'm not entirely sure you read the same book as the rest of us

[godking]

  On 10/25/2017 at 9:08 AM, D3L said:

 

  On 10/25/2017 at 8:16 AM, godking said:

Just finished the book this morning.

 

Loved it

 

1 Curze is the most shameful craven coward of all the primarchs who damn near had a catatonic shutdown when the possibility arose that not everything is written in stone and that fate can be averted like the overgrown emo goth kid he is.

 

2 Sanguinus is the bravest of the primarchs who actually tried too alter fate but chose for the greater to accept his fate even though it would cost him his sons future.

I'm not entirely sure you read the same book as the rest of us

 

I did and i stand by what i said.

 

Curze spent his entire life doing whatever he wanted because he believed that his fate was preordained but the minute that he realized that fate may not be as preordained as he believed it to be he panicked and almost shutdown.

 

Everything he said over the years every excuse that he made for himself and his actions where proven to be bull:cuss the moment he panicked  at the suggestion of fate being altered.

 

Because then he would actually have to take responsability for his choices instead of the "it was ordained by fate" excuse.

 

Sanguinus did the best he could but in the end sacrificed himself and his legions future for the greater good.

 

In the end Curze used his fate as an excuse Sanguinus dit not.

[Kelborn]

If one enjoys the book, why questioning him and his opinion?

[Damon Nightman]

  On 10/25/2017 at 10:47 AM, godking said:

 

  On 10/25/2017 at 9:08 AM, D3L said:

 

 

  On 10/25/2017 at 8:16 AM, godking said:

Just finished the book this morning.

 

Loved it

 

1 Curze is the most shameful craven coward of all the primarchs who damn near had a catatonic shutdown when the possibility arose that not everything is written in stone and that fate can be averted like the overgrown emo goth kid he is.

 

2 Sanguinus is the bravest of the primarchs who actually tried too alter fate but chose for the greater to accept his fate even though it would cost him his sons future.

I'm not entirely sure you read the same book as the rest of us

I did and i stand by what i said.

 

Curze spent his entire life doing whatever he wanted because he believed that his fate was preordained but the minute that he realized that fate may not be as preordained as he believed it to be he panicked and almost shutdown.

 

Everything he said over the years every excuse that he made for himself and his actions where proven to be bull:cuss the moment he panicked at the suggestion of fate being altered.

 

Because then he would actually have to take responsability for his choices instead of the "it was ordained by fate" excuse.

 

Sanguinus did the best he could but in the end sacrificed himself and his legions future for the greater good.

 

In the end Curze used his fate as an excuse Sanguinus dit not.

Really like your interpretation here! Thanks for sharing!

[Robbienw]

I agree with godking.

 

I thought this book was really good, the bits with the primarchs together were great.

[b1soul]

Godking...that's a great analysis.

 

Curze was a nihilist/fatalist who never strived toward something better. He was content to wallow in vileness and avoid personal responsibility.

 

The Emperor made Curze to be blind justice, but he ended up being a torturer.

[helterskelter]

  On 10/26/2017 at 2:42 AM, b1soul said:

Curze was a nihilist/fatalist who never strived toward something better. He was content to wallow in vileness and avoid personal responsibility.

 

 

Tried to warn his brothers of Heresy. Gets backstabbed by said brothers.

Okay.

Yep he did a great job of avoiding it. Heck he still fought for the Imperium for a bit after that, however loosely it was.

But it seems the descent to cartoon villainy is complete.

[bluntblade]

Sorry to be a grammar arse, but *strove

[b1soul]

Both are correct: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/strived