HH Book 46: Ruinstorm

[HeritorA]

 

 

 

Caius Tadius

For the cover of the 'Ruinstorm' I was sarcastic (tis horrible )

As for the Blessed Lady - sure, it can be it. But Ultramar is a big place - it could have went anywhere. Maybe it's left Ultramar space for good and would reapper only for the Siege of Solar. Cause even through Horus has a lot of ships - it would be really costly to get through Pluto and Saturn and Venus and Luna and up to Terra without something truly 'linebreaking'

 

 

I suppose. But they have the Trisaigon for that. Plus having the Word Bearers and Ultramarines fight on the Blessed Lady makes for a rather exciting Shadow Crusade Story. Also, I kinda want Horus to use some actual tactics/strategy like he did in the "Vengeful Spirit" novel to break into the Solar System. I don't want him to just pull out some ultra-powerful ships.

 

 

Indeed I feel the same.

2 points through:

1) To stop shop of a 'Blessed Lady' type Ultramarines need a really powerful fleet (remember how it all went over Nuceria). To strip some shields to actually start any boarding actions.

2) Solar would be guarded by 3 Primarchs - trick from the 'Luna' would simply not work here. It would be unpleasant and strict  breaking with a lot of warships in addition to some techno-warp virus to shutdown the defences etc.

 

 

Yes I agree. Although, as I've described in my "Are Battleships actually vulnerable in space combat" topic, there is a theme of Ultramarines taking down mega-battleships such as the Abyss Class and the Gloriana class due to the fact that the Word Bearers often sent these units in without proper escort/support.

 

The Ultramarines would then swarm the ships with lighter craft like Strike Cruisers/Escorts/Destroyers and either board them or take them down with combined firepower. This usually results in horrible casualties but it gets the job done. For example: Guilliman sent 30 of these smaller ships against the Gloriana class which was the flagship of Lorgar at Nuceria and it cost 12 to take it down.

 

Similarly, later on the Nemesis Chapter of the Ultramarines would capture another Word Bearer Gloriana through rapid boarding actions.

 

Sure. But to swarm the ship of Apocalypse, Gloriana and Kingship class you need to drop it's void shields. And to do that - you need A LOT OF FIREPOWER. Which mostly based on ships of the line.

 

As for the Nemesis chapter example - I know that you use info from the Tempest Forge World HH book. And Forge World HH books are incorrect a lot of times - especially than it comes to the void warfare.

There are only 20 Gloriana class battleships ever built - each a flagmans for a Legion. Ship captured by Nemesis Chapter could not have been Gloriana class by any means.

[bluntblade]

You're not entirely correct about the Glorianas. Tempest mentions the Ultramarines seizing one from the Word Bearers, and I believe there's a reference to another.

[HeritorA]

You're not entirely correct about the Glorianas. Tempest mentions the Ultramarines seizing one from the Word Bearers, and I believe there's a reference to another.

'And Forge World HH books are incorrect a lot of times - especially than it comes to the void warfare.' - because of that.

 

Laurie said that Forge World HH book come from the 'suspicious narrator'.

And BL mentioned continuously in HH novels and anthologies that there are only 20 Gloriana class battleships built - each one a flagship for the Legion. It's written lore - I do not think they did changed it.

Simply writing teams of the Forge World missed some BL stuff and simply are not very profficient with the classes of the void crafts in Horus Heresy and Warhammer 40k.

[NKCougar]

 

 

You're not entirely correct about the Glorianas. Tempest mentions the Ultramarines seizing one from the Word Bearers, and I believe there's a reference to another.

'And Forge World HH books are incorrect a lot of times - especially than it comes to the void warfare.' - because of that.

 

Laurie said that Forge World HH book come from the 'suspicious narrator'.

And BL mentioned continuously in HH novels and anthologies that there are only 20 Gloriana class battleships built - each one a flagship for the Legion. It's written lore - I do not think they did changed it.

Simply writing teams of the Forge World missed some BL stuff and simply are not very profficient with the classes of the void crafts in Horus Heresy and Warhammer 40k.

Are you talking about the Blessed Lady, Furious Abyss, Trisagion ships from Betrayer and Battle for the Abyss?

 

If so, those are (I believe) the only three ships of that class we've seen yet.

[Midgard]

Admittedly, this is pure speculation, but if there are 20 Glorianas, and only 18 Legions remaining by the time of the Heresy... that leaves two Gloriana-class vessels unaccounted for. Assuming they were not destroyed/scuttled with the Legions they were originally supposed to go to, what is to stop them from ending in the hands of the other surviving Legions?

[Morovir]

Well, the Alpha Legion have two...

[bluntblade]

And the presence of another among the Word Bearers would make sense.

[Mellow]

AL don't have two. None of the Primarchs knew about the twins.

 

Regarding the book cover I honestly thought to myself "why on earth is the Khan with Sanguinius and Guilliman.

 

Then I went ... oh ... and then tried to figure out where his long hair went ... then I went oh and realised it was a very feminine pony tail.

 

Then I saw the beard and I went ... oh dear god!

[Petitioner's City]

AL don't have two. None of the Primarchs knew about the twins.

 

Well, Lorgar makes two copies of his book, each subtly different, for the Alpha Legion primarchs, and gifts every other primarch only one copy. See Know No Fear :) 

[Withershadow]

Admittedly, this is pure speculation, but if there are 20 Glorianas, and only 18 Legions remaining by the time of the Heresy... that leaves two Gloriana-class vessels unaccounted for. Assuming they were not destroyed/scuttled with the Legions they were originally supposed to go to, what is to stop them from ending in the hands of the other surviving Legions?

I'm pretty sure not everyone had Glorianas, there were less than half a dozen produced overall if I remember one of their descriptor blurbs correctly.

[DogWelder]

 

You're not entirely correct about the Glorianas. Tempest mentions the Ultramarines seizing one from the Word Bearers, and I believe there's a reference to another.

'And Forge World HH books are incorrect a lot of times - especially than it comes to the void warfare.' - because of that.

 

Laurie said that Forge World HH book come from the 'suspicious narrator'.

And BL mentioned continuously in HH novels and anthologies that there are only 20 Gloriana class battleships built - each one a flagship for the Legion. It's written lore - I do not think they did changed it.

Simply writing teams of the Forge World missed some BL stuff and simply are not very profficient with the classes of the void crafts in Horus Heresy and Warhammer 40k.

 

 

There were definitely more than 20. One of the Glorianas was called the Amphion and was gifted to the new Imperial Navy.

 

The Word Bearers could have had 2 since they had a massive naval buildup before the Heresy. If they produced 3 Abyss Class vessels then another Gloriana wouldnt be above them.

[NKCougar]

 

 

 

 

You're not entirely correct about the Glorianas. Tempest mentions the Ultramarines seizing one from the Word Bearers, and I believe there's a reference to another.

'And Forge World HH books are incorrect a lot of times - especially than it comes to the void warfare.' - because of that.

 

Laurie said that Forge World HH book come from the 'suspicious narrator'.

And BL mentioned continuously in HH novels and anthologies that there are only 20 Gloriana class battleships built - each one a flagship for the Legion. It's written lore - I do not think they did changed it.

Simply writing teams of the Forge World missed some BL stuff and simply are not very profficient with the classes of the void crafts in Horus Heresy and Warhammer 40k.

There were definitely more than 20. One of the Glorianas was called the Amphion and was gifted to the new Imperial Navy.

 

The Word Bearers could have had 2 since they had a massive naval buildup before the Heresy. If they produced 3 Abyss Class vessels then another Gloriana wouldnt be above them.

Was it actually a Gloriana class or another "Primarch Rubinek" gaffe?

[Fire Golem]

 

You're not entirely correct about the Glorianas. Tempest mentions the Ultramarines seizing one from the Word Bearers, and I believe there's a reference to another.

 

'And Forge World HH books are incorrect a lot of times - especially than it comes to the void warfare.' - because of that.

 

Laurie said that Forge World HH book come from the 'suspicious narrator'.

And BL mentioned continuously in HH novels and anthologies that there are only 20 Gloriana class battleships built - each one a flagship for the Legion. It's written lore - I do not think they did changed it.

Simply writing teams of the Forge World missed some BL stuff and simply are not very profficient with the classes of the void crafts in Horus Heresy and Warhammer 40k.

The BL novels are written from as much of an unreliable narrator as the Forge World books as they're usually from characters points of view, which is open to bias and misinformation. Where is it definitively stated that only 20 Gloriana Class ships were built?

 

Lexicanum lists 20: Invincible Reason, Pride of the Emperor, Iron Blood, Swordstorm, Hrafnkel, Nightfall, Red Tear, Fist of Iron, Conqueror, Macragges Honour, Endurance, Photep, Vengeful Spirit, Fidelitas Lex, Chronicle of Ashes, Flamewrought, Shadow of the Emperor, Alpha and Beta; which are all flagships, and then the Chronicle of Ashes which is the Word Bearer one given to the Nemesis Chapter after its captured, and the Amphion which belongs to the Imperial Armada.

[HeritorA]

Admittedly, this is pure speculation, but if there are 20 Glorianas, and only 18 Legions remaining by the time of the Heresy... that leaves two Gloriana-class vessels unaccounted for. Assuming they were not destroyed/scuttled with the Legions they were originally supposed to go to, what is to stop them from ending in the hands of the other surviving Legions?

They were for the II and XI legion. So we will never know.

 

Well, the Alpha Legion have two...

Alpha is a Gloriana class. Beta was an Achilles battlebarge.

 

Admittedly, this is pure speculation, but if there are 20 Glorianas, and only 18 Legions remaining by the time of the Heresy... that leaves two Gloriana-class vessels unaccounted for. Assuming they were not destroyed/scuttled with the Legions they were originally supposed to go to, what is to stop them from ending in the hands of the other surviving Legions?

Why speculation if BL authors cemented that in their books - that Glorianna class battleships are only 1 per legion, and always a flagship.

Where A D-B and Laurie then you need them

 

Caius Tadius

'The Word Bearers could have had 2 since they had a massive naval buildup before the Heresy. If they produced 3 Abyss Class vessels then another Gloriana wouldnt be above them.' - well that could be, that could be. He could have made them in secret.

 

'There were definitely more than 20. One of the Glorianas was called the Amphion and was gifted to the new Imperial Navy.' - which is mentioned where? In Tempest?

 

fire golem

And Lexicanum made mistakes too. Beta was an Achilles battlebarge.

A D-B's  Lorgar discussed how 20 ships of Glorianna class were build for the Legions. Then in VS or AE McNeil mention the same.

I do like specifics - so we need direct authors answers here or Laurie Goulding or other GW representative who know his 'stuff' about the ships classes

[hopkins]

our spiritual liege once confirmed on TFE that gloriana was not a standard class as such, and each flagship was built to order, which is why they vary so much

 

here we go, found the link - http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=122&st=300

[HeritorA]

our spiritual liege once confirmed on TFE that gloriana was not a standard class as such, and each flagship was built to order, which is why they vary so much

 

here we go, found the link - http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=122&st=300

Thank you. That's what we needed. 'each flagship was built to order' - indeed.

[Fire Golem]

And Lexicanum made mistakes too. Beta was an Achilles battlebarge.

A D-B's  Lorgar discussed how 20 ships of Glorianna class were build for the Legions. Then in VS or AE McNeil mention the same.

I do like specifics - so we need direct authors answers here or Laurie Goulding or other GW representative who know his 'stuff' about the ships classes

Where is it mentioned that Beta is an Achilles? I could be wrong but I remember it being a Gloriana.

 

Just because 20 Gloriana were built for the legion flagships, doesn't mean that others couldn't have been built for other purposes too.

[HeritorA]

 

And Lexicanum made mistakes too. Beta was an Achilles battlebarge.

A D-B's  Lorgar discussed how 20 ships of Glorianna class were build for the Legions. Then in VS or AE McNeil mention the same.

I do like specifics - so we need direct authors answers here or Laurie Goulding or other GW representative who know his 'stuff' about the ships classes

Where is it mentioned that Beta is an Achilles? I could be wrong but I remember it being a Gloriana.

 

Just because 20 Gloriana were built for the legion flagships, doesn't mean that others couldn't have been built for other purposes too.

 

It was mentioned specifically in a list of novels - VS, AE, Betrayer, somewhere else - need Laurie to give the correct quotes

[hopkins]

paperback confirmed for april 3rd 2018

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/178496672X/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_VB4uzbNQ1BP51

[Indefragable]

I appreciate the finer points of void combat and the craft needed to carry it out. I also like that an aspect of 40k other than bolter porn is being discussed so heavily.

 

That being said, especially from a bring-a-knife-to-a-gun-fight-and-win Blood Angel perspective, I'm sitting here reading the debates about x class ship vs y class ship vs whatever, thinking:  https://youtu.be/B203twyaMfM

Edited June 28, 2017 by Indefragable

[HeritorA]

I appreciate the finer points of void combat and the craft needed to carry it out. I also like that an aspect of 40k other than bolter porn is being discussed so heavily.

 

That being said, especially from a bring-a-knife-to-a-gun-fight-and-win Blood Angel perspective, I'm sitting here reading the debates about x class ship vs y class ship vs whatever, thinking:  https://youtu.be/B203twyaMfM

Well you are right to some degree. On the other hand I do like then BL authors (who are also fans of void warfare) go outside the tabletop scope and create a full picture - starting with the things in space. Where actually almost all stories in the setting with the warp travel, galaxy spin and tons of ships should be started. It's not WFB with events covering different landmasses on one planet

[Mellow]

So presumably the 2 lost Legions had Gloriana class vessels that were repainted and renamed and restaffed?

 

I can't imagine them destroying 2 custom built capital ships.

 

(Also what is book 45?)

[Tymell]

So presumably the 2 lost Legions had Gloriana class vessels that were repainted and renamed and restaffed?

 

I can't imagine them destroying 2 custom built capital ships.

 

(Also what is book 45?)

 

Eh, I don't think destroying 2 custom built capital ships is that much harder to buy than them destroying* two custom built legions and primarchs ;)

 

*or whatever

 

(book 45 is Tallarn)

[choppyred]

A D-B, on 07 Jun 2017 - 11:44 AM, said:http://bolterandchainsword.com//public/style_images/carbon_red/snapback.png

When we decided on what the Ultramarines will do at the end of the Ruinstorm, like, five years ago, it was the only time I've ever got chills in an HH meeting.

 

I think this'll be a good'un.

Thinking about this lets speculate as to what is going to happen re the Ultramarines, I have 2 theories.

 

1: The Ultramarine's and Dark Angles come to blows. This could be over anything for example the Xeno-tech that the Lion has aboard his ship. Which I belive he will gift to Sanguinius to get him back to Tera in time for the fun and games.

 

2: Guilliman is made to choose between defending his own empire, Macragge and  the 500 worlds (and therefore his "mother".) Or rushing to defend his fathers empire, Tera (and therefore The Emperor.) Which would he choose ? I think that I could hazard a guess!

[DarkChaplain]

Don't forget that the Tuchulcha thing is already accounted for in the 41st Millennium via Legacy of Caliban. Anything the Lion does with it, like handing it to Sanguinius, will need to wrap back around for Tuchulcha to be able to pop back up for the conclusion (or as close to one as you get with that climax).