The classicMarine dilemma

[Frater Cornelius]

Hey folks. Got an issue with Primaris. Well, not the usual one though.

 

Primaris appeal to me for a lot of reasons and I will play them, period. However, they might be bringing homogenization in terms of play-styles. For those who are familiar with Stormcast Eternal know that they are basically one army, with the option of taking certain Battalions (read: pseudo-Formations) that represents one of the Stormhosts (read: Chapters) with a few rules (2-3 rules per Host, using entirely the same pool of models). Unless GW is planning to bring custom Primaris models for every SM factions, I feel flavour will be lost.

 

This brings me to my issue. I enjoy that flavour with the old Marines (mainly due to the Chapter-specific models), so I would not necessarily mind it, kif GW goes the Stormcast route. Having said that, I am playing with the idea of doing a classicMarine force alongside the Primaris. A new one, not expanding on an existing one, which I do not have anymore. However, I am not convinced it is worth it at this point in time, now that Primaris are a thing and probably the future of Marines.

 

It is probably just my reluctance to do risky moves or I am just waaaay too deep into tin-foil conspiracies, but if anyone could offer a word of advice on the classicMarines, that'd be great

Edited October 26, 2017 by Frater Cornelius

[D3L]

 Unless GW is planning to bring custom Primaris models for every SM factions

They will.

 

Normalstartes will be no more (subject to current stock)

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Speculation until proven otherwise.

[deathspectersgt7]

They will more than likely give the various chapters their special primmie kits . But while TruMarine kits are around that is all I buy. I give 8th  . 

[Jonny Roxtar]

 

 Unless GW is planning to bring custom Primaris models for every SM factions

They will.

 

Normalstartes will be no more (subject to current stock)

 

I might believe this , if they were bringing primaris versions of every space marine unit that currently exists. They dont seem to be doing that though they are bringing diferent units almost like a new army. So the conclusion i get from that is Space marines are going nowhere and Primaris marines are just a new army to use. Furthermore i find the constant doom and gloom posts irritating at best.

Edited June 10, 2017 by deusmex

[SickSix]

 

 

 Unless GW is planning to bring custom Primaris models for every SM factions

They will.

 

Normalstartes will be no more (subject to current stock)

 

I might believe this , if they were bringing primaris versions of every space marine unit that currently exists. They dont seem to be doing that though they are bringing diferent units almost like a new army. So the conclusion i get from that is Space marines are going nowhere and Primaris marines are just a new army to use. Furthermore i find the constant doom and gloom posts irritating at best.

 

 

No they aren't going to be Primaris units that mirror Space Marine units. They are going to be a new army that simply replaces the old but will not be a mirror. Again, what's the point of that? They need you to buy all new stuff.

[Claws and Effect]

If that really is their plan, it could blow up in their faces spectacularly.

 

Older players are the ones that have the disposable income to buy GWs expensive stuff.

 

If GW up and tells the players that can afford to spend lots of money on models that the collection they've spent 20+ years building can no longer be used in the game, a significant portion of them will likely say "Screw you, I'll find something else to spend my money on."

 

Sure, kids and new players might not care, but how many of them drop $500 in one order and do that several times a year?

[SickSix]

If that really is their plan, it could blow up in their faces spectacularly.

 

Older players are the ones that have the disposable income to buy GWs expensive stuff.

 

If GW up and tells the players that can afford to spend lots of money on models that the collection they've spent 20+ years building can no longer be used in the game, a significant portion of them will likely say "Screw you, I'll find something else to spend my money on."

 

Sure, kids and new players might not care, but how many of them drop $500 in one order and do that several times a year?

 

They are never going to say that. Marines will have rules for a long time. But it will go the way of a free PDF while Primaris get new codices.

 

And it's blatantly obvious on any forum there are score of 'veteran' players that are chomping at the bit to buy all the new stuff. Yes, some will stop buying as happens in every new edition. But yes, there is a chance it could blow up. But I think the excitement of the new rules is overriding the dissent about Primaris as a whole. And GW has never really cared about veteran players anyways. It's all about those new customers.

 

Again, GW is pushing a starter set box set with this new edition with ZERO Space Marines in it. The Primaris releases are going to come hard and fast to keep those hooked with the Dark Imperium box buying. They aren't going to distract the new customers with regular marines right now. It's all Primaris, all the time.

Edited June 11, 2017 by SickSix

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

I don't understand this thread's question, because there wasn't really one. Is OP worried that they will make things like Primaris Devastators, Primaris Assault Marines, Primaris Terminators, so he doesn't want to waste money on old Devastators/Assault Marines/Terminators?

I don't think that's going to happen. Primaris seem to have completely new units. Inceptors instead of Assault, Intercessors instead of Tactical, Hellblasters instead of Devastators. Gravis instead of Bikes/Terminators. They are going to get new units like Reivers instead of Scouts, Aggressors instead of Terminators/Devastators, etc.

 

But if I was going to make an old style marine army from scratch, I would highly consider converting it out of Primaris parts, just to look bigger and cooler. It would take some work until they release more Primaris bits because I like my power armor to have a lot of variety and not just the same mark on every figure, but I think it would look good to have a cohesive height across your old marines and new Primaris, and you can differentiate the unit types via wargear or paint markings.

[KBA]

Go for your idea. The oldmarines have a huge, flavourful line right now. Sure, the Primaris may be the future (something I'm betting will happen) but the circumstance is much different than the last scale switch the marine line experienced. Now, it's integrated into the fluff. It's not, "oh hey, everyone's magically taller now and it's always been this way" -- something I kind of wish they had done again. Instead, it's, "A bunch of crazy revelations happened and the imperium decided it needed even bigger, faster, stronger, but there's still loads of the smaller guys running around".

 

There's a ton of potential juicy stories in this awkward growing phase we're in right now. At first sight of the Primaris I was pretty dejected, believe me: I went through all 5 stages of grief with the current marine line, but have since decided it's going to be worth it to stick around in the hobby, and explore this zany new Dark Imperium.

 

With a decently heavy dose of plugging my ears and going "la la la la la" ;)

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I really can't see eye to eye with those of the opinion that normal marines are going away.

 

Does anyone really grasp the breadth of what that would entail? 99% of all things Space Marines related would go away. To include all the new vehicles and other kits they just came out with not long ago. Also GK will need to be primari-sized and true scaled. Same goes for every other army. That's a huge and possibly risky business move for GW. Then all of the armies (Astartes and not) will need updates to get scales right. The sky is not falling...

 

Immer, I don't want to lead you wrong but I really feel like you'd be fine. If we're being reasonable it makes no sense for standard marines to fall by the way side..

[KBA]

The nail in the coffin for me was a shot from one of the recent events of a Primaris next to an Oldmarine. The Primaris instantly made the Oldmarine look awfully outdated. It made me cringe slightly. And this is coming from another one of those guys who's been around since 2nd. New blood entering the hobby? I really wonder how they will see things and what product line their hard earned dollars will go towards. The money will determine what happens with the line. Add in GW's fluff on the Primaris in the new novel basically pointing toward Primaris being the only future for marines (despite some cataclysmic gene failure or something) and I think it's going to be a layup.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

Eventually, maybe, but all the people saying the original marines will only survive "while current stock lasts" are out of their goddamn minds. You have no precedent of GW doing such a thing and neither AoS or the Marines from 2nd to 3rd have any comparison to what's happening now. Stop screaming FIRE in a crowded theater.

[Doghouse]

Best measuring stick is wait and see what comes with the new space marine codex. I'm guessing space marines and nurgle will come first to build on the starter set so it shouldn't be long.

[Robbienw]

Again, GW is pushing a starter set box set with this new edition with ZERO Space Marines in it. The Primaris releases are going to come hard and fast to keep those hooked with the Dark Imperium box buying. They aren't going to distract the new customers with regular marines right now. It's all Primaris, all the time.

What are you on about?! :lol:

 

Every single model in the box is a space marine (except for the zombie things and the drones)!

Edited June 11, 2017 by Robbienw

[Kinstryfe]

What's your tolerance for treating minis like an entertainment expense versus an investment? How long do your current models have to remain cutting edge for you to have gotten your value out of them? Is building the mini marine army something you're interested in doing as part of your entertainment budget, or as some sort of investment to build, paint, play, and then strip and resell in the future? If you're looking for an investment, then goodness no. Don't buy any models. If you're looking for entertainment value, then you need to decide what your threshold is. A $20 movie outing lasts two hours. A $60 box of models takes +-10 hours to build and paint, plus play time and whatever enjoyment that gives you. Not bad by comparison. So extrapolate out. If GW phases out mini marines in 10 years when the final molds are used up, is it worth it? 5 years? 2 years?

 

If that doesn't work for you and you still kinda want to build mini marines, consider making the bulk of them MkIII and MkIV from the Heresy line. You'll hedge your bets that both games would have to change enough to make your minis useless.

 

(FULL DISCLOSURE: I have multiple hundreds of marines and guard in various flavors and stages and painting from sprue to complete, and haven't played a game since 6th edition or so, so having more marines than one would ever need is pretty much my philosophy.)

[SickSix]

 

Again, GW is pushing a starter set box set with this new edition with ZERO Space Marines in it. The Primaris releases are going to come hard and fast to keep those hooked with the Dark Imperium box buying. They aren't going to distract the new customers with regular marines right now. It's all Primaris, all the time.

What are you on about?! :lol:

 

Every single model in the box is a space marine (except for the zombie things and the drones)!

No they aren't. They are Primaris Marines. Has anyone even talked about the name? Guess what, its about locking down their IP. That's another reason a phase out will happen. GW cannot copyright 'space marine'. Adeptus Astartes sure.

 

Intercessors? What the hell kinda stupid name is that? Copyright protectable, that's what it is.

 

GW is transforming their biggest seller to completely lock it down legally as well as to get a huge profit injection from everyone buying new stuff that wouldn't have otherwise.

[Kinstryfe]

There is a good point to be had here. That's exactly what happened when GW discontinued the entire elder/dark elder lines when they changed them to the Aeldari/Drukhari. They switched to a name that can be trademarked and discontinued the old products, leaving the old Eldar players only able to use armies of consisting of multiple copies of the the Ynnari triumvirate. That's not even getting into any legal troubles that arise from multinational fast food conglomerates if you paint your Harlequin models red and yellow.

 

But on a serious note, there is the fact that the English language product descriptions for the Primaris models in Dark Imperium are listed as "Primaris Space Marine :BLANK:". It's right on the games-workshop website for anyone to see. Given that bit of info, arguing that Primaris Space Marine Intercessors are not Space Marines is no different than arguing that Blood Angels Space Marine Devastators are not Space Marines. Every available confirmed piece of factual evidence points to there being no immediate plan to discontinue older Space Marines wholesale, and every bit of supposed evidence that this is some evil plot to purposely upset like 60% of GW's fan base is grounded in speculation and conjecture at best. Maybe some of the speculation and conjecture will turn out to be correct eventually, but right now it's still just speculation. The sky is not falling. If the hobby could support blue marines...and red marines...and grey marines...and black marines...and a kit for spiky marines...and noisy purple marines...and stinky marines...and other red bunny marines...and lighter blue robomarines...oh and I almost forgot the super shiny silver marines and the black marines with a silver arm...it can support Big Marines...

[Robbienw]

 

 

Again, GW is pushing a starter set box set with this new edition with ZERO Space Marines in it. The Primaris releases are going to come hard and fast to keep those hooked with the Dark Imperium box buying. They aren't going to distract the new customers with regular marines right now. It's all Primaris, all the time.

What are you on about?! :lol:

 

Every single model in the box is a space marine (except for the zombie things and the drones)!

No they aren't. They are Primaris Marines.

No. They are Primaris SPACE MARINES.

 

Check out the description on the GW website of the Dark Imperium set. They are continually referred as Primaris SPACE MARINES.

 

You are entirely wrong on this.

[deathspectersgt7]

GW is speaking out of the sides of their mouths . In 4yrs TruMarines (MK7  kits) will be history Even RG says their days are numbered.

Edited June 12, 2017 by deathspectersgt7

[Jonny Roxtar]

GW is speaking out of the sides of their mouths . In 4yrs TruMarines (MK7  kits) will be history Even RG says their days are numbered.

My real name is Robert Gordon and i have said nothing of the kind

[Dosjetka]

=][= The point of the thread is not to argue about if Primaris Marines will replace "normal" Astartes in the future or not. We've seen these arguments too many times already and we don't need them again here.

 

Start posting constructive content or be purged. =][=

[Brother Tyler]

Folks,

 

This topic is about providing our suggestions to on how he can continue to incorporate legacy Adeptus Astartes in his army(ies) as he continues to play in 8th edition. It's not about our opinions on Primaris Space Marines (Immersturm likes them - 'nuf said), what is going to happen with legacy Adeptus Astartes (GW has said that they will continue to be supported - 'nuf said), naming conventions, etc.

 

Let's stay on topic and remain constructive.

[Imren]

As I understand 8th edition include rules for regular marines and primaris. Also 8th edition is such a big change from 7th that the previous codexes cannot be played according to the 8th edition rules. You could play 6th edition codexes in 7th edition. 8th is the biggest overhaul of the rules since 2nd I'd say. So most likely 9th edition will be a slight tweak of the 8th edition rules. So therefore I suspect the following:

 

8th edition rules covering regular and primaris marines will stay for another two years or so. If/when 9th comes out, I think it is safe to say will just be a slight tweak of the 8th rules in such a way that the 8th army books will be still playable, otherwise it would be a huge confirmation of failure of the design of 8th edition rules if 9th becomes another huge rule change. So this means that the regular marines will have rules covered for them for the upcoming 3-4 years at least.

 

I think its safe to say that the regular marines will have valid rules for some years to come along with the primaris marines regardless of GW spitting out new primaris marines units during the upcoming years.

 

So Immersturm: Since we will still have rules for the regular marines and will have for a few years to come, I'd say for now, wait and see how regular marines plays out in 8th edition compared to primaris marines before you decide on your new army list and your model purchases. Perhaps you cold proxy and do some playtesting yourself with other models to get a feel for the performance under the new rules. When the dust have settled around 8th edition after the summer and we have a better understanding how units and wargear combination plays out on the table in 8th I think it will be better for you then to decide on your list.

[deathspectersgt7]

Plus there are other games to play TruMarines SW ,KT (which I plan on doing) or play some of the older editions . Having played a game of 8th this morning I will be going with my favorite skirmish games.