Quick N' Dirty Batrep: Thousand Sons vs Tau (pics)

[Prot]

Just a very quick batrep based on a 75 power level game. I'd estimate 75 power level is somewhere around 1200-1400 points. It feels like it anyway.

We ended up playing Big Guns Never Tire, and my force looked like this:

So a few squads of Tzaangors, some Cultists, 5 Scarabs loaded up of course. Two squads of Rubrics, one in a Rhino. Exalted Sorc + Ahriman. The one item I was very hesitant on here but wanted some real ranged punch is the Forgefiend. He's got some serious wounds, and some serious cost associated with it, but at S8 -1 AP, it seemed like something I wanted to try in 8th.

The heinous T'au, once known as the heinous Tau, were quite buffed in areas I didn't really foresee.... they play better with different units now. The T'au were basically a lot of Battlesuits (the new sauce) and a Riptide, a Ghost Keel, Jump-mander, lots of drones, a transport with Breachers, a Tide wall drone thingy (it's now a transport) with Troops in it.... it turns out the T'au list was slightly illegal as it only had 2 Troops but someone else told us he probably could have easily fit it into one of the elite style detachments at the cost of a few Command points.

I ended up with first turn, and after deployment he failed to seize. I chose the deployment that has you closer in the middle. I realized he would / could far out maneuver me and out shoot me, so I wanted a chance at getting to grips with him early....

- After deployment the T'au did take an infiltration unit to deny my Deep Strike on his 'softer side', so I was forced to put my Scarabs on the right side of this picture. This made me make a stronger offensive push to the right side of the table to try to take out the Riptide with the Forgefiend enhanced by Ahriman..... whom advanced with Rubrics on foot, and ended up with Perils on a Warp Time and try to avoid it with a CP re-roll.

- I surged up right side, and dropped the Scarab Occult. I simply could not wound. Wounding on 5+ is incredibly difficult. The Forgfiend had to move up to gain 36" range... this makes is WS a deplorable 5.... so Prescience was key but the shots simply bounced with only -1 AP on the Riptides 2 plus.... he still rolled 3's.

- On the opposite (left) side I felt with his infiltrators he did take a risk... or so I thought, in that I could at least try to keep him occupied with softer bodies.... but I was wrong.

- So a squad of Tzaangors actually gets in a first turn charge with help of Instrument.

- A rhino rushes up as well... The Havok Launcher is worth it typically but there's something very different about T'au now.... they are ridiculously tougher. T5 stops me in my tracks.

- The Tzaangors get the charge and I'm glad they have Tzaangor CC weapons but in truth I could could not get much wounds with that T5.... when did fish get tough?

Tau turn:

- Of course every unit is fixated on the Flamer Rubrics in the Rhino. I made sure my opponent knew what was in there, and at this point I realized he was taking drones and planning to absorb future charges.... and then everything I hit in CC simply "Flew" away, unimpeded. This left Tzaangors in the open. My Tzanngors (green ones) in the middle ruins were also going to be heavily targeted by heavier Battle Suits....

- The Rhino was completely health and already on his door step. I had faith in the T7 holding out a full wounds for a single turn at most... but I was wrong again... in a few salvos the Rhino went down to zero wounds before I could get to turn 2, so although it didn't explode, the Exalted Sorc and Rubrics take 3 wounds on exiting!!!! 3 wounds! Wow are vehicles tough on expensive models....

- The Rhino (I assumed) is removed from play and I had to be within 3 inches. So the Tzaangors and remaining Rubrics took a horrendous beating from a semi-circle of Tau fire lines... fire warriors in the back, shielded by drones, and suits on the outskirts.

- This would be as far as I get. Somehow as it turned back to my turn I had Tzaangors punch through the middle (green) and I made some juicy 5 up Invuln saves.

- The Exalted Sorc perils'd again... I ran out of command points doing this it was horrible. The whole Psychic phase was actually quite horrible. It did almost nothing. Since powers are unique, Ahriman always used Prescience on the Forgefiend, and Warp Time on the Rubrics which were loaded but too slow against Tau..... far too slow.

- Back to this assault above, I killed a few drones, but that's because as the 'weakest' unit in the melee they are still T4. The suits couldn't hit back very hard, but moral isn't what it used to be for Tau. They have no trouble staying in, and the T5 battle suits laughed at my Goat attacks.

- The Ghostkeel is ridiculously resilient. At times between various models he kept throwing Drones in front of Smite making Smite almost useless. So I tried to target softer units with smite but nerfed smite just can't make up for not having a punishing shooting phase.

- Back on the right side of the table the Riptide would get assault by Scarabs, and the Rubrics were very, very slowly make it upwards to try and pitch in but again... wounding on 5's just kills the army's the ability to deal relevant damage.

- Then things went from bad to worse.... The Rubric Sorc cast his mini Smite, Perils'd again... died, and he took 3 Mortal wounds from Perils, however I did not know if these perils wounds were supposed to spill over? Regardless I removed him from play, and took D3 wounds to the other Rubrics... killing 3 more. Ahriman took 2 wounds, and cultists took 3 wounds!

And that was the most damage my psychic phase would ever do.... kill a Sorc, hurt Ahriman, kill 6 other models in my army. But there's more.... Ahriman would cast Prescience and Perils as well. And he would take 3 wounds bringing him down to 1 wound. (he never received a shot all game... so all his wounds were from some form of perils or another.)

- Well now that we got all that perils out the way we can get back to the game... wait... one more..... the Scarab Occult Sorc perils'd on his baby Smite, he took only a single wound. I was actually happy.... lol

- BTW: The real crappy sidenote in the Scarab taking a wound is for the rest of the game every time that squad took a wound, it always had to be allocated to him first which really, really stinks.

- The army tries to recover from such horrible psychic phases and just collapses under weight of fire.... although the self wounded Scarab Sorc would guide the squad into CC with the retreating riptide (above).

- Scarab occult lay down a few more wounds, but in assault things aren't very good. The Swords can't wound, and the Staff can wound but typically he saving on a 3 up, and then a 6 up (which he made a few of) FnP kind of mechanism.

- The amazing thing about the T'au is I would enjoy getting in CC with the Riptides because a few wounds and they can run... but now nothing... no moral to take, so they just walk away from you and this army simply can't be tied down.

- The Tau sacrificed drones as long as they could... and although marker lights aren't what they used to be, they do last the entire phase so at this point the assault element of my army was destroyed by a continuous "white scars" move of hit and run, and dakka the goats.

- FINALLY in Turn 4 I have my first killed unit of Tau... the Riptide. It was a slow beating from the Scarabs who finally took him down but it took 4 turns of nearly my whole army shooting and scarabs shooting/assaulting him to kill it. So my 'first blood' would come in the last game turn.

- His breacher squad which really had nothing to do all game were bored, so he got them out of the transport in turn 3-4 and the dakka'd up the rest of the cultists, and killed most of the rubrics.

- By turn 4 I knew it was over. But with his one wound remaining I thought I would see what happens if I take Ahriman into the transport.... with the remaining Rubrics. Smite does 2 wounds, and Ahriman gave it one wound as well... and that was it. The scarab swords couldn't do anything, and the transport attacked Ahriman back and almost killed him! That would have been just an added touch of embarrassment!

- I called it here as I had about 5 models on the table, and his army was only one unit down.

Conclusions:

- Lots of good T'au tips here:

- Let Drones absorb critical wounds.

- Let Drones layer in front of soft targets and absorb assaults.

More good T'au stuff:

- Battlesuits are ballersuits... Just keep to the perimeter with your suits, as drones absorb hits, come in with your suits and focus fire, let them assault you with combined overwatch, and just "Fly" away. Rinse and repeat.

T-5 Suits, 3+ saves, 3 wounds... these guys are really good now. Something I said from the earliest leaks of the toughness system is I felt T5 was going to be huge and it is. The majority of 'infantry' firepower is always going to have difficulty with T5.

People complained about the Riptide in 8th and I understand he had to get more expensive... when every ITC event has lists in 7th that started with "This is my Army "X", it has a Riptide wall as well".

The Riptide is actually very survivable.

Thousand Sons lessons of the Planet o' Perils!

- I suffered 5 perils. Sure that's pretty high, but this is exactly why I thought the psychic phase would be a nightmare for me. I understand not having as much 'power' in the Psychic phase... heck I was happy to see that, but I fail t understand how it can be that soft, and potentially rip a chunk out of your army as well. That lack of mitigation from 7th was keenly felt. Keep in mind there is no possibility of a 'good' result anymore from Perils.

- The Exalted Sorc felt lost. With Ahriman calling the shots, I have to confess the Aura is barely noticeable. I think you can get more mileage from other HQ's for a Battalion if you're running Ahriman as the main dude. (unique powers mean the Exalted is just Smiting.)

- Forgefiend. That was the first and last game for him. The best Daemon unit I think right now is the Baledrake but I didn't want to default to him right off the bat. But I'll take that for essentially the same price over a Forgefiend any day.

- Tzaangors are easily the best unit I had. It's unfortunate I went against an army that is basically T5, and can't be held in. They are so much better than cultists and the CC weapons combined with Instrument make for a great, great cheap troop.

- Rubrics.... they had literally zero effect on the game. Rolling 5's to wound all game killed their overall effectiveness. And they are slow compared to Tau, so to get in 'good' range also meant subjecting yourself to a torrent of very high AP firepower that was much more potent than Warp Flamage/bolters.

- Warpflame squad... no opinion they never lived to get in within range.

- Scarab Occult. This is feeling a lot like 7th. I can see myself dumping Rubes for Tzaangors, and going pure Scarab Occult... feels a lot like 7th. They last longer, they have more varied loadouts, and don't have 10 man tax issues to get it. They are tough, and can also assault... and don't rely on a transport.

- All is Dust. This was really hard for me to accept, but in my opinion it is nowhere near as effective as our old buff to a invuln 3+ Invuln. Not even close. I got hit continuously with Fusion and Plasma. I almost never got to use all is dust, and had to rely on 5++ way too often. Unfortunately our aura 'buff' never came in to play for me once.

- Melta, and Plasma is incredibly punishing to us. As I said many times I play in a meta where there is a crapload of high AP armies. I already miss the 3++ and it was a hard reminder when I watched my Rhino go up and the squad inside with just a couple of shots. (D6 wounds is killer).

- Overall this is the worst game I've ever had against Tau with my Thousand Sons. I never felt I had a chance. It felt like the Tau were playing a different game. I definitely took some lessons from the game though. Probably my biggest handicap was the Psychic phase is super fickle now. there is no way to stack it in your favour really. No way to mitigate its negatives either. The second biggest handicap I had was easily the Forgefiend. Something that has to walk and hit on 5's... is just not worth those points the odd time I could mitigate that penalty the damage/hits just didn't feel good enough at that point level.

[Scammel]

Great food for thought. The consensus seems to be that Rubrics now have a genuinely useful role against basic infantry (in particular blunting the hordes that seem to have a strong showing so far), but there's clearly another side to that coin. I wonder if the newly-oomphed flying MCs are the scissors to this particular paper? Hordes < MEQ < TEQ < MCs < Hordes?

[Sception]

Seems like a particularly bad matchup.  I'm not quite ready to write off forgefiends (and defilers, which have similar issues with accuracy) myself.  Yeah, on their own the hit rate really hurts, but they are <legion> units, and can be targeted by prescience and benefit from a lord's aura.  I imagine them having a roll in a force built on longer ranged infantry, with maybe a couple units of CSMs (x10 w/ 2 heavy weapons) or Havocs plus one or two big guys, with some combination of lord/smith/apostle/sorcerer mixed in, and one or two heavier vehicles, whether predators or helbrutes or fiends or defilers, for some added punch.

 

Probably not so good, but I still want to give it a try.  Obviously not so good for thousand sons, with their more expensive rubrics who don't even get a single heavy weapon until 10 strong, and even then it's a weapon that just hates more on the stuff their bolters already hate on....

 

I think there you're probably better off rushing into rapid fire range using multiple rhinos, with drakes to provide distractions & bullet sponges covering your advance.  Maybe predators for ranged support rather than slower, less accurate, more buff dependent fiends.

 

Not that I really know anything when it comes to 8th edition, haven't even played a single game myself.

[Skerr]

Man, sounds like a rough one Prot, thanks for sharing.    it is a shame that the psy phase can have such a small effect on your opponent though perils did serious damage.

 

I was curious about the reroll 1 on 5++.  Harlies got this bonus when they took one of their formations in 7th(Cegorach's Revenge?).  Though it looks good on paper it actually had little effect on the game.   A 4++ however allows for the reroll to 1 to be more effective of course.  

 

I was also suprised that Exalted do not get access to to other force weapons like aspining does.  I ges the Stave is the preferred weapon of that statiion.

[WarriorFish]

Ouch, not good reading :( Sounds like a re-factoring of your forces is necessary for the change to 8th but I'm not sure what to?

[Skerr]

I am hoping that factions have list versatility to offer counters to lists rising to the top.  

[Prot]

Well thanks for watching.

 

I am admitting I'm trying things...typically I like to experiment with things that are lower level, and perhaps less obvious to work, and in this case that was the Forgefiend. I do think it will do much better in an army that can 'babysit' it.

 

The Thousand Sons aura isn't exactly a great match up for that.

 

Conversely I can see a Warpsmith is actually quite good now, and matched with Forgefiends, and/or Defilers, and/or, Preds/brutes,etc etc... this can potentially be a good thing.

 

The other thing I'm seeing (and I mentioned this in the Thousand Sons thread) is lascannons are pretty important if you're not ripping vehicles apart in CC (which I would not be really capable of... and I saw that in this game).

 

So this shows me that for my typical Thousand Sons list, I need an autonomous Las unit that doesn't require a lot of babysitting. I think Helbrutes with Missile Launchers is the way I may go. The Landraider might be very good too for a larger Rubric squad.... but I agree the Thousand Sons fueled with dusty Rubrics will need Rhino's and/or Landraider support.

 

Somewhere I recommend finding points for lascannons though. I got absolutely chewed up by Fusion/Plasma, and it's VERY hard to avoid on jump units and as I enter my threat range, he jumps in and increases his Fusion damage potential (2D6 pick the highest). He often rolled that 6 and I can't mitigate that... it was why the Rhino was so easy to pop.

 

Still I think on paper my favorite daemon unit is most likely going to be the Baledrake.

 

The Psychic phase... I have no idea what to say about that.

[1000 Sons]

Forge world will hopefully save chaos again. Once that new book comes expect to see more leviathans, helblades, helbombers, a bunch of new tanks and knights.

[Zodd1888]

Ouch! Super brutal. The amount of perils you experienced is exceptionally high, though I fully agree it's incredibly harsh to TSons due to our costs per model. Earlier on I thought 2 casters would be TSons meta but reality is only 2 spells are worth casting every turn, and the third can be Smite if you go with Ahriman or Magnus.

 

Forgefiends need the support of rerolls for sure, but I don't know how beneficial it is to invest solely into it since you have one cast. I feel like we've got to build lists that can support itself and use the few spells we have to capitalize on opportunistic moments so if they fail it's not game over.

 

I'd recommend getring rerolla through eithera Chaos Lord for an infantry heavy list, or if you go Daemon Engines run Magnus. RR 1's without a cast will be very helpful (39%ish hit rate on 5+ RR 1's if I recall correctly) which could get you some action. Predators and Helbrutes seem to be the most effective Dakka for TSons besides our blobs of rending bolters.

 

Obviously the saves didn't feel impactful, but did the Rend also feel lackluster?

[Panzer]

A few tips against T'au:

- Drones are seperate units after deployment now. So target them with the more basic dakka while directing only the heavy hitting stuff at the Suits themselves. Without Drones and some high strength weapons on your side you'll see Crisis melt relative quickly and they cost a ton (42ppm without weapons)

- the above is especially helpful against the Ghostkeel. Once his both Drones are gone he only has a -1 to-hit modifier left and only against units that are more than 12" away

- don't concentrate too much on the Riptide. It's more of a distraction Carnifex than ever before while his damage output is rather low for its points and you can easily deny him objectives since it's only a single model anyway

- Drones are easy killpoints. So in a mission with killpoints they quickly turn into a disadvantage for the T'au player

 

Also if you thought the Crisis Suit were hard wait until you face lists with Commander spam. Point for Point he is better than Crisis Suits and with the HQ detachment there is no real reason why T'au player shouldn't take Commander over Crisis Suits anymore. Kinda sad but that's how it is. :P

[Prot]

A few tips against T'au:

- Drones are seperate units after deployment now. So target them with the more basic dakka while directing only the heavy hitting stuff at the Suits themselves. Without Drones and some high strength weapons on your side you'll see Crisis melt relative quickly and they cost a ton (42ppm without weapons)

 

This is good info.... before my game. lol

 

I asked him before first turn if the drones were separate or not... he said they were. But only when I plopped a bunch of wounds on something did he tell me they had a built in "Look Out Sir" which really sucked. But yes, that was a hard lesson to learn. To be honest GETTING close enough for it to matter was the real problem.

 

That Ghostkeel... I think it's T8! I couldn't believe how much tougher the Keel got! Actually the army overall is considerably more resilient.

 

 

 

- don't concentrate too much on the Riptide. It's more of a distraction Carnifex than ever before while his damage output is rather low for its points and you can easily deny him objectives since it's only a single model anyway

 

I agree. I did this for two reasons:

1: I wanted to test the doubts I had on the Forgefiend. They are confirmed. As mentioned I won't bring one again..... there are far better Chaos armies that can work with the Forgefiend.

2. He used infiltration to mitigate my deep strike. He made a large bubble (you don't have to deploy in a circle anymore) and prevented me from dropping into that half of the table. So I thought what the heck, I'll drop in the only area I can (while not being completely out of the game) and go after the Riptide as a test. I didn't want them to just die there, so I backed the Scarabs up with more ineffective stuff.

 

 

- Drones are easy killpoints. So in a mission with killpoints they quickly turn into a disadvantage for the T'au player

 

Also if you thought the Crisis Suit were hard wait until you face lists with Commander spam. Point for Point he is better than Crisis Suits and with the HQ detachment there is no real reason why T'au player shouldn't take Commander over Crisis Suits anymore. Kinda sad but that's how it is.

 

On the game type... this game quickly reminded me of why we play a lot of Maelstrom here. The ability of an army like this to just sit back and kite you is too good... and frankly it's boring. There's no real thought or interaction going on, it's pulling back, bouncing out of combat, and rolling dice.

 

In honesty without being forced to go after him, I could have out played him with objectives (Maelstrom) but maybe not... however this game type is very highly suited to sit back and roll  dice armies.

 

And yea the Commander was very good, and I can see all the suits combined for a mini juggernaut of mobility that not only hits like a truck, but is dodgy, unassailable (by anything less than a hammer/fist) and is surprisingly survivable.

 

I think I could do a lot better but it was an eye opener. I never had near the trouble with high end Tau with my thousand sons but that's when we were truly resilient... not just against small arms fire, but the gluttony of AP2-1 of 7th ed.

 

I would have to rejink my list a lot and stop experimenting which I'm not quite prepared to do quite yet. I know I could default to Baledrakes, Magnus and Scarabs but for right now I'm kind of trying to play this out.

 

I will say I don't see any need for Exalted sorcs though. Which is really disappointing considering how much time I spent on them (got a second box I was working on too!) Those points are most likely spent on a more offensive/useful aura, or heck just something else in general.

 

But yes, about the drones, that's a very good point I should have been more vocal about in my batrep. It was really only after the first turn I realized you have to actually target them first.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Prot

[Panzer]

Not gonna lie, the Drones and the durability of 8th T'au are just awesome. But everything comes with a cost. In the T'au community there is lots of moaning about how Commander do everything Crisis do better for less points and while everyone of course acknowledges how great the Saviour Protocol on Drones is there are also obvious disadvantages (first blood, kill points, being able to take them out with Bolter etc. first while shooting the Crisis themselves with Plasma or similar).

 

But yeah all in all Suits are almost disgustingly hard to remove. The biggest winner there are the Stealth Suits tho. They now have the profile of 7th Crisis Suits (T4 W2) with the additional -1 to-hit modifier (even in melee) without becoming more expensive at all.

 

Ghostkeel is only T6 W10 Sv3+ btw. Once you got rid of the drones and/or are within 12" it's rather easy to kill it I'd say. His to-hit modifier also don't apply in melee (neither the one from the Drone nor his own).

 

Oh and something for the future against T'au: You might want to look out for three nasty combinations people already figured out.

1. Gun Drone spam. 8p for 4 S5 shots at 18" on a M8 T4 Sv4+ body with <Fly> keyword. Disadvantages would be the BS5+ and that they can only target the nearest legal enemy unit. With a Drone Controller nearby however they would get a +1 to-hit modifier and with the sheer amount of Gun Drones you can bring for 8p it shouldn't matter which unit is the nearest.

2. Stealth Suits placing a Homing Beacon for Fusion Blaster Commander/Crisis. This allows them to be closer than 9" to enemy units bringing them into melta range. And if there is another unit nearby they can then safely charge that one to force it to fall back in your turn or simply bind them and fall back in their own turn to keep shooting thanks to the <Fly> keyword.

3. Same as above but with tripple Flamer Crisis. That's an expected 31.5 S4 hits from 3 Suits. This will hurt pretty much any unit on the receiving end. Although TSons would do rather well against those due the All is Dust special rule.

I'd be more concerned about quad CIB Commander or three tripple CIB Crisis dropping in and overcharging them for d3 S8 AP-1 D1d3 shots as TSon player I guess. Since they'd kill about 3 (Commander) or 4 (Crisis) Rubrics a turn without any Markerlight Support. :P

Edited June 12, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Raven1]

That was a hard loss. I was planning on a forgefiend but I might just go with a laspred or a helbrute (that sounds wierd to say, like on purpose) for the BS3+ and maybe a contemptor for anti-infantry from the forgeworld index.

 

Thanks for the insight.

Edited June 12, 2017 by Raven1

[MoGuy]

I think the Forgefiend will be good against lower-ish armour targets like Ork Vehicles, walkers etc. where it can reduce the save to a 4+/5+. And I think right now we are in a "bad" spot (we aren't, really, I mean Rubrics just got a heck of a lot more versatile etc.) because we don't have legion specific rules. Until Codex Traitor Legions(?) drops I probably won't play "pure" Thousand Sons but rather TSons with Raptors, vanilla Termis etc. since those will bring Plasma/Melter/Versatility to our army. 

 

Thank you for the write up!

[Prot]

Panzer that is gross. I think if I play that guy again I'll be going no holds barred. I don't even know why a Tau player would even bother with a Stormsurge with that kind of 'Suit Synergy' available to the army. The speed and resilience is what took me by surprise.

 

I mean yes, Fly makes it hard to deal with but when I did ru into them (finally) with stringing first Tzaangors, I was shocked at 3+ saves, t5 and 3 wounds! I don't know if a surge is really mandatory anymore. I used to face them a lot, I guess time will tell if the community adopts them again in tournaments.

 

I do know I never had this kind of issue with them in 7th.

 

Thanks for clearing up the Keel. Still darn tough though and those stealth suits can infiltrate, right? Because that is golden against Drop armies with the new 9" rule.

[Heliomanes]

I think Forgefiends are better suited to other legions, I'm afraid. They get a lot of milage out of the reroll to hit bonus from a friendly chaos lord.

[Prot]

That was a hard loss. I was planning on a forgefiend but I might just go with a laspred or a helbrute (that sounds wierd to say, like on purpose) for the BS3+ and maybe a contemptor for anti-infantry from the forgeworld index.

Thanks for the insight.

I like the Brute because no diminishing scale on damage and I think missiles are actually quite good now. Also Rage is shockingly something you actually want to happen now!

I think Forgefiends are better suited to other legions, I'm afraid. They get a lot of milage out of the reroll to hit bonus from a friendly chaos lord.

Absolutely. I just had to try.... I painted him up for a tournament, but with Iron Warriors and a Warp smith, you can see a wall of these guys doing some work.

[Scammel]

I think it remains to be seen what kind of 'spot' we're in, simply due to the fact that it's not immediately apparent where the real efficiencies lie and how balanced the points actually are. Certainly, no Chaos list should ever have any issues with versatility unless you're self-imposing restrictions, so if a given playstyle does rise to the fore even god-specific forces should be able to rise to the challenge.

[Heliomanes]

If you wanted to take them I'd just include them in the detachment under another Legion keyword. Call them the "Acolytes of the Cobalt Warpforge" and make them a tzeentchian warband with a few demon engines, a warpsmith or chaos lord, and a few cultists, and add them into your Thousand Sons detachment as allies bound to Ahriman through a mix of comraderie, comon goals, manipulation and coercion. The Talon of Horus book really showcases how this "ally" system works in the Eye, and it's really fluffy to make your group a bit more heterogenous than what the old Legions were like during the Heresy.

[Panzer]

Panzer that is gross. I think if I play that guy again I'll be going no holds barred. I don't even know why a Tau player would even bother with a Stormsurge with that kind of 'Suit Synergy' available to the army. The speed and resilience is what took me by surprise.

 

I mean yes, Fly makes it hard to deal with but when I did ru into them (finally) with stringing first Tzaangors, I was shocked at 3+ saves, t5 and 3 wounds! I don't know if a surge is really mandatory anymore. I used to face them a lot, I guess time will tell if the community adopts them again in tournaments.

 

I do know I never had this kind of issue with them in 7th.

 

Thanks for clearing up the Keel. Still darn tough though and those stealth suits can infiltrate, right? Because that is golden against Drop armies with the new 9" rule.

Ikr. Still have to test a Crisis heavy list myself. :P

 

Yeah Stealth Suits can infiltrate (get deployed more than 12" away and outside of the enemy deployment zone). It's not a tactical reserve deployment, so they can even move in their first turn, deploy the Homing Beacon 1" away and then let the Crisis/Commander drop in within 6" of the Beacon without any limitation.

 

Honestly Stealth Suits are by far my favorite unit in 8th. I had two units in my last game and it took my opponent 3 turns to get rid of them by shooting at them with like half of their army while the Stealth Suit themselves killed a Kastellan and threatened a Techpriest by jumping over a screening unit of Vanguards after charging them earlier. :D

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Not going to lie this kind of confirms my fears about 8th, that Thousand sons have had their teeth pulled in the psychic phase, had their durability reduced to not really being effective whilst being far more likely damage themselves and with even less options.
I honestly thought Asp. sorcerers could not get worse before 8th dropped, between this and what i'e seen of over armies it seems TS are kind of a useless army atm, really not sure it's worth me buying into 8th (my other armies are gk and sw, the former seem in a pretty bad place as well).
Beautiful army though!

[Plaguecaster]

You have an amazing army Prot and I love your battle reports :) bad luck man though it's a shame as it looks like daemon engines have been hit quite hard especially since they can no longer move and fire like they used too eating their potential :( looks like I'll be swapping out my daemon engines for Helbrutes and other FW dreads which I never thought I would have to do considering how bad they once were Edited June 13, 2017 by teutonicavenger

[Prot]

Thank you very much for reading.

 

Well yes, I agree five perils is ridiculous. I actually suffered from 4 of them as I managed to negate one with CP rerolls.

 

It made me realize how one unfortunate game can lead not only to lack of powers going off but you can murder your army pretty severely in a worst case scenario. As a Thousand Sons player this is a little hard to get used to.

 

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So I have a few games lined up but I'm worried about one in particular. It looks like I will be facing a 75 power point Ork list with potentially 3 fully kitted out and loaded Battlewagons!

 

I'm not sure how I'm going to deal with this.

 

My opening lists will always include one experimental unit. This time it will be a Helbrute with Twin-lascannons and missile launcher.

 

I really believe it's a good unit until the Chaos line is revisited, it seems to be one of our better heavy choices that doesn't depreciate in ability based on wounds suffered.

 

So beyond that item, do you guys have any strong recommendations for taking on 5 Battlewagons? I never list tailor but I also want to try to make a game of this!

[MoGuy]

 

 

So beyond that item, do you guys have any strong recommendations for taking on 5 Battlewagons? I never list tailor but I also want to try to make a game of this! 

 

The Battlewagons themselves don't really have any damage output since most Ork stuff hits on 5+. It's the Boys/Nobz/Mega Nobz inside that is the problem. 

 

I would take a Discopred, Helbrute w/ Lascannons and Missile Launcher for dealing with the vehicles. If you have, maybe take a Maulerfiend to engage the Mega Nobz. 

 

If you don't go first, deploy waaaay back! Take Tzaangors as speedbumps and to engage his Boys. If you want to go "outside" of TSons maybe take some Terminators with Combi Flamers and Claws. They should be pretty brutal as their overwatch will protect them from being charged that easily and since they now have 2 wounds you won't just lose one because you rolled an unlucky 1. 

 

I myself will also try running some Raptors with Flamers or Melters.

[Archaeinox]

Yeah man having to take a 5++ is serious business!! No good when a lot of it starts happening