olsol Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Now that I've looked through the full rule set for all the indexes I've come to the conclusion about four things: 1. most armies are balanced: GOOD 2. Skarbrand is an absolute CC boss 3. Custodes are the most powerful unit in the game 4. The assassins are extremely overpowered From now on I'm going to take an assassin every time I use an army of the imperium. considering how each of them has dropped about half of their points while keeping all of their sick abilities and wargear! Universally, they all have the Independent Operative ability and the Lighting reflexes rule, which is a 4++. By the way, They all have the Character key word, which means they can't be shot at unless they are the closest model... YES! Each of them are completely unique and amazing in their own special role. The Vindicare can absolutely destroy enemy characters from 72" away. The callidus disrupts your opponents CP's while cutting the head of the snake. The Culexus is the infamous monster that it still is, probably more so due to the whole Character keyword thingy. And finally, the Eversor assassin... THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE (In combat) UNIT IN THE GAME (that I heave found)! 70 Points of sheer BRUTALITY! This dude takes my breath (and your opponents models) away. The Eversor assassin is, point to wound more deadly than any singular model in the game, doing 2.96 unsaved wounds against MEQ on the charge... That's .73 wounds more than Drazhar and he is twice as expensive as the Eversor! Once you read these rules, you will definitely understand how important each of these dudes are for increasing the damage potential of your imperial armies... Super stokes for 8th edition. Arkeo Nox, ValourousHeart, WarriorFish and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Have to agree! The Vindicare now seems to fire some new round that combines all the old special ammo into 1. That thing is hitting on 2's, wounding on 2's and at best the opponent is getting a 5+ save. Then D3 (sometimes D6) Damage. As a Guard player it terrifies me. Guard rely on their characters more than anyone else and they're all more squishy than most as well. a Vindicare will delete a character a turn! However, as a Guard player I love it! I have a regimental sniper conversion that I use as a counts as Vindicare and that saw a lot of use in 7th. I don't think that will change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
klisof Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I'm a little worried about how well custodes will stand up to plasma spam with the low model count, at something like 52points per guy minimum for the cost if one five man custodes squad guard or stormtroopers can throw down a ton of plasma guns. I'll feel better after getting some games in and seeing how they roll. Assassin allies to drop the buffing characters will help custodes a lot I think. The land raider is a steal at only 8pts more than the marine equivalent. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Can't see it with the Eversor and it reminds me of the third edition change (the neuro gauntlet becoming a lightning claw - which is basically what has happened here). Three MEQ deaths on the charge, where it will still be bogged down like previous and no delivery? Sadly I'm really not seeing it :( Captain Idaho 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 The Eversor kind of delivers itself but it's the weakest choice I think. Good for bogging down (and most likely shredding in due course) a Devastator squad or similar but there are other ways to do that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781364 Share on other sites More sharing options...
H311fi5h Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) Who says you should take one Eversor? Bring five and run them like a squad for 350 points. But they are actually better than a squad, because they can split up if you don't need all of them together. And you can move the wounded ones to the back, where they can't get shot anymore unlike a multi-wound squad. Elite slots aren't an issue either with the Vanguard detachment. The only disadvantage is that you can't really do pile-in and consolidate shenanigans with single models. Edited June 13, 2017 by H311fi5h Fallen Avenger 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 ... because that's £95. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentz Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Isn't the Eversor more for wading into loads of Orks or Guard? Let's do the math... Deep strike 9 inches away from a squad of 30 boyz 4 Executioner Pistol shots, hitting on 2's, wounding on 3's and rerolling fails... 6+ save due to -1 AP... That's... 2.5 dead orks. 3d6 Charge into combat... 8 attacks on the charge, hitting on 2's, wounding on 3's and rerolling fails, 6+ save due to -1 AP... that's another 4.9 dead orks. So now the orks get to attack - would be a bad idea for them to crowd him but... if they do... 22.6 Orks (!) then pile in and probably kill the Eversor, at which point it explodes and kills half the models within 1". I'd say thats an additional 3 or 4 casualties? So from being off the table it could kill 10-12 Orks/GEQ... Hm... I dunno that actually doesn't sound as efficient as I initially thought. I was expecting enough to cause morale problems as well. How many points is 10 or 12 boyz? I do think that if you take this out of isolation and assume you ALSO shot this horde unit with other things then that squad has a good chance of getting wiped or at least neutralised. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentz Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 ... because that's £95. I think a box of Sicarian Ruststalkers wouldn't take much to convert acceptably... They have a power sword and a claw... and the box comes with pistols as well which you could glue on their hips or something. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nz71naYuJi8/VUM7_BZYwwI/AAAAAAAADQQ/nSNPK5ohVR8/s1600/vlcsnap-2015-05-01-09h00m24s188.png H311fi5h and Raztalin 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781391 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Not for me personally, but that's an excellent solution for Eversor conversions :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
H311fi5h Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Right arm with claw, left arm with pistol, the arm coming out of the backpack with sword, or add a sheathed sword to the backpack. Remove the mechadendrites from the backpack, and add a Frenzon vial. Green stuff some cylincdrical pieces to the claw for the Neurotoxin. Looking at the sprues I think you can build 5 without cloaks, that is good. Paint the head bone white, the Frenzon and Neurotoxin green, and the rest black, with some red accents. This could work. Kierdale 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I rarely see an actual Assassin model. They're quite easy to convert from spare parts with some imagination. If you're set on using official models they do get expensive quickly though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Why 5? Build a whole Army of Eversors! You can get 20 of those monsters for what, 1,400 points? That's a lot of pain! Kierdale 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
H311fi5h Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Why 5? Build a whole Army of Eversors! You can get 20 of those monsters for what, 1,400 points? That's a lot of pain! 2 Battalion Detachments 1 Vanguard Detachments 3 Company Commanders 2 Lord Commissars 6 Infantry Squads 7 Heavy Weapons Squads 18 Eversors Completely legal 2000 point list with 10 CP ++ Battalion (Astra Militarum) ++ + Troops + Infantry Squad: Chainsword, Laspistol, Plasma Gun Infantry Squad: Chainsword, Laspistol, Plasma Gun Infantry Squad: Chainsword, Laspistol, Plasma Gun + Elites + Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin + HQ + Company Commander: Chainsword, Laspistol Lord Commissar: Bolt Pistol + Heavy Support + Heavy Weapons Squad: 3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squad: 3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squad: Lascannon, 2x Mortar ++ Battalion (Astra Militarum) ++ + Troops + Infantry Squad: Chainsword, Laspistol, Plasma Gun Infantry Squad: Chainsword, Laspistol, Plasma Gun Infantry Squad: Chainsword, Laspistol, Plasma Gun + Elites + Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin + HQ + Company Commander: Chainsword, Laspistol Lord Commissar: Bolt Pistol + Heavy Support + Heavy Weapons Squad: Lascannon, 2x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squad: Lascannon, 2x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squad: Lascannon, 2x Mortar ++ Vanguard (Astra Militarum) ++ + Elites + Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin Eversor Assassin + HQ + Company Commander: Chainsword, Laspistol + Heavy Support + Heavy Weapons Squad: Lascannon, 2x Mortar Silentz, Gentlemanloser and Hellex_The_Thanatar 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Even if those Eversors get tied up in CC, when they go boom they're going to hurt as well! 50% chance to deal 1d3 Mortal wounds to all units within 1", 18 times! :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkeo Nox Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) Ah ! Guess who found an Execution Force Box for 80$ today ?! Vindicare is going to be a pain with his ability to pick small key individuals. Culexus is still a beast and help your army during psy phase. Calidus looks fun and her capacity with command points is not gamebreaker but usefull. Eversor ? Seems like a great backline hunter to me ! I will play all of them in my Inquisition list. Edited June 13, 2017 by Arkeo Nox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4781633 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I've always felt the Eversor was better suited to support similar tactics, or with the full gamut of Assassins. My Vindicare has been pretty solid so it sounds like he might be a bit better off in 8th especially being able to pick of characters who are quite important not (plus benefiting from the rule himself, so he's less likely to get spam fired off the table...). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4782467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 Honestly one of my favourite developments from 8th. I'm even toying with how effective an army of assassins could be.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4782597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NatBrannigan Posted June 14, 2017 Share Posted June 14, 2017 I'll running Sly Marbo as an assassin for sure. Until he gets proper rules that blow assassins away! olsol, Guardsman Bob, Kierdale and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4782844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I'm not so sure about the Vindicare. Even with the huge improvement from7th, he will still need 2-3 turns to kill an average character, unless you are really lucky. Provided that character kindly stays in your line of sight. He still looks like the less appealing of the assassins to me... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4783783 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beams Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 The vindicate isn't about lone wolfing characters. He's about picking off the weakened ones, using his massive range. He's also about changing the way the opponent reacts. How do I handle my characters, especially the minor characters who buff, when there is an assassin who can Target and kill them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4783953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) The vindicate isn't about lone wolfing characters. He's about picking off the weakened ones, using his massive range. He's also about changing the way the opponent reacts. How do I handle my characters, especially the minor characters who buff, when there is an assassin who can Target and kill them? Well that is exactly why he does not look that great. I'm primarily an AM player, so I have plenty of weak characters that a Vindicare can target. My reaction? Not very worried: on average, he'll take 2 turns to kill a character that costs half (or less) his points, meaning that he's probably struggling to earn his points back before turn 4. Luck is always an option, but so is bad luck, so...I guess I'll just try to keep my charaters hidden, and if that is not possible, there are things I am much more scared of. I am still not impressed by the Vindicare, which in my opinion just went from very poor (7th) to decent (8th). Edited June 15, 2017 by Feral_80 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4784113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beams Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) The vindicate isn't about lone wolfing characters. He's about picking off the weakened ones, using his massive range. He's also about changing the way the opponent reacts. How do I handle my characters, especially the minor characters who buff, when there is an assassin who can Target and kill them? Well that is exactly why he does not look that great. I'm primarily an AM player, so I have plenty of weak characters that a Vindicare can target. My reaction? Not very worried: on average, he'll take 2 turns to kill a character that costs half (or less) his points, meaning that he's probably struggling to earn his points back before turn 4. Luck is always an option, but so is bad luck, so...I guess I'll just try to keep my charaters hidden, and if that is not possible, there are things I am much more scared of. I am still not impressed by the Vindicare, which in my opinion just went from very poor (7th) to decent (8th). As a sisters player, I'd be very upset if a vindicare started sniping imagifiers, limiting my offense potential. Edited June 15, 2017 by Beams Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4784131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feral_80 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 "Upset"? Yes sure, just like I would be if he started sniping my Commissars. However, being upset is quite different from being scared as hell by a terribly powerful model - the latter apparently being the reaction that most people seem to have to the Vindicare. I could be upset by many things during a game, and usually several times in a turn. Terribly ruined - no, that's an entirely different thing. On a side note, you'd be happy to notice that a Vindicare costs about 2.5 times an Imagifier, which means that on average he won't be able to kill all those that you field by the end of turn 6. Your match will not be terribly affected by a Vindicare. He'll be annoying, probably. Potentially powerful, yes, if he is lucky. But not really that great, I repeat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4784200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beams Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 "Upset"? Yes sure, just like I would be if he started sniping my Commissars. However, being upset is quite different from being scared as hell by a terribly powerful model - the latter apparently being the reaction that most people seem to have to the Vindicare. I could be upset by many things during a game, and usually several times in a turn. Terribly ruined - no, that's an entirely different thing. On a side note, you'd be happy to notice that a Vindicare costs about 2.5 times an Imagifier, which means that on average he won't be able to kill all those that you field by the end of turn 6. Your match will not be terribly affected by a Vindicare. He'll be annoying, probably. Potentially powerful, yes, if he is lucky. But not really that great, I repeat. I mean, if you plan on taking six imagifiers, your wasting a lot of points? If you only take two or three, planning on having them hide behind things, since most armies don't have snipers, than yeah, it'd be a game changer when he pops them. I understand your point, I that he won't be killing Guilliman, but to take out the support characters is just as important as killing the DPS, maybe even more Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/334641-why-assassins-are-so-good-8th-edition/#findComment-4784209 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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