Why assassins are so good! (8th edition)

[Gentlemanloser]

Ah, missed the 6 damage!

[lazyj]

 

Other Snipers deal extra Mortal wounds on a 6+, in addition to their normal damage.  It seems to be a staple of the Sniper weapon, baked in as a unit ability.

 

The Vindi should have had this as well.

 

Ignore Invulnerable saves is ok, but an extra Mortal Wound on top would have been better.  And in fitting with the abilities of, lesser, Snipers.

 

Yeah but instead he deals 6 damage on a 6+ to wound, against which will only ever get a maximum 5+ save (then FNP rolls etc)!

 

Actually,  it's not a flat 6 damage on a 6+ to wound, but D6. You could still end up doing only 1 wound.

 

Personally, I don't think he needs to dish out mortal wounds, but his damage should be 1+ D3 (or 1 +D6 on a 6+ to wound). It would be nice if he could guarantee at least 2 wounds per shooting phase.

 

My biggest gripe with the new vindi (and I still love him) is that he can no longer pick out a special/heavy weapon in a unit any more. 

[Lysere]

 

 

Other Snipers deal extra Mortal wounds on a 6+, in addition to their normal damage. It seems to be a staple of the Sniper weapon, baked in as a unit ability.

 

The Vindi should have had this as well.

 

Ignore Invulnerable saves is ok, but an extra Mortal Wound on top would have been better. And in fitting with the abilities of, lesser, Snipers.

Yeah but instead he deals 6 damage on a 6+ to wound, against which will only ever get a maximum 5+ save (then FNP rolls etc)!

This, he's basically doing not quite mortal wounds every turn, but with more damage.

[Finkmilkana]

But he doesn't do a lot of them compared to other snipers. Assuming the enemy has a 2+ he only seems to do about 1.05 wounds on average. A 10 squad ratlings does 1.47 (1.1 Mortal Wound and 0.37 normal unsaved) against T 7 2+ (worst case that makes sense to snipe). Against 3+ it's 1.31 for the vindi vs 1.84 (or 1.47 of the enemy has cover) for the rattlings. And so on. And the tiny hobbits are even 20 cheaper. He has other advantages (true infiltrate, better meele etc) but purely to snipe characters he seems lackluster.

[Charlo]

Math hammer is math hammer.

 

I prefer a vindicare over a bunch of hobbits any day.

 

While they'll have a consistent output, the vindicare has a lot more oppurtunity to just annihilate a character.

[Finkmilkana]

For a big combat character (2+, 6 W) the vindi has a whooping 1/75 chance to oneshot. The hobbits are a bit harder to guess, but I don't think they have a far lower chance (2 or 3 mortal wounds in one round are not that unlikely+ 10 Bolter shots). Support characters on the other hand have a somewhat high chance to die from both.

That said the hobbits seem underpriced in general (scouts cost almost 3 times as much for the same damage) and melt if you just look at them (while the vindi can hide behind your lines).

The best use I see for him is area denial and to attrition off enemy character. If the enemy hides them the vindi has paid for himself, if the enemy doesn't he will loose the character after 2-3 rounds. Just don't expect him to quickly 'assasinate' anyone, that is what the barefooted mutants are for.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Am I correct in assuming the callidus CP negative ONLY works on the first turn? 

After that it doesn't work. If the wording in the Imperium 2 index is to be believed. 

[Finkmilkana]

Yes, it clearly says during the first battle round. But it doesn't require the Calidus to be placed yet, just be part of your army it seems (so it can still be in reserves).

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Good discussion here, brothers. You've definitely got me thinking hard about reconsidering my stance on assassins ... which was that I generally never used them. Now it sounds like a good inquisitor should not leave his office without one (or 3). 

 

My friend who I play about 90% of my non-tournament games against plays Eldar Aeldari, and I'm getting kind of tired of all the games of him dooming my units and charming his own. I think that a Culexis might be my first priority.

[Charlo]

Assassins are certainly one of the biggest winners in 8th in terms of new rules updates.

[Finkmilkana]

Just noticed something that I missed so far and that is very painful to me: in difference to "poisoned" weapons (which usually wound on x unless vehicle), the vindi wounds on 2 only against infantry. This means that any mounted character (Iron Priest on Thunderwolf, DKoK mounted officers etc. demons and nids too I think) is not worth shooting at at all.

[Ishagu]

I've tested out 3 of the Assasins against a variety of opponents. Here's what I've found so far:

 

-Vindicare is pretty disappointing. His damage output is not significant, however two of them would be effective at actually killing characters and thinning out elite infantry from afar.

 

-Eversor is very good. He's a great Assasin to hold in reserves and to harass units as you approach mid game. Cheap enough that his loss means nothing.

 

-Cullexus Assasin looks underwhelming at first, but is probably a gem. Great ability to limit psychic attacks - some armies will spam them, and he's very survivable on top. His shooting attack is very good against psykers that approach your line, and still useful in general.

 

 

I've not tried the Callidus yet.

[Diesinthewarp]

I've tested out 3 of the Assasins against a variety of opponents. Here's what I've found so far:

-Vindicare is pretty disappointing. His damage output is not significant, however two of them would be effective at actually killing characters and thinning out elite infantry from afar.

-Eversor is very good. He's a great Assasin to hold in reserves and to harass units as you approach mid game. Cheap enough that his loss means nothing.

-Cullexus Assasin looks underwhelming at first, but is probably a gem. Great ability to limit psychic attacks - some armies will spam them, and he's very survivable on top. His shooting attack is very good against psykers that approach your line, and still useful in general.

I've not tried the Callidus yet.

I've tried them all now and can I add to this post is pretty much what I found in all my games, Cullexus is a little gem and so annoying for people to kill (swear words were muttered from opponents). I used callidus so can I add my opinion on this

 

She was very very good, I used her to take out any problematic unit and to annoy characters. Her hit and run was the star of the show adding mortal wounds and then charging with weapons great for squads or for characters.

[Arkeo Nox]

I've tried all of them.

 

Eversor is awesome, a human missile (killed three scout squads first game). But he bounces on vehicules.

 

Vindicare is... well, I think you're better using his pistol and his grenade to support close combat units, sometimes picking a long range target (something on an objective, etc ..).

 

Callidus is great. Her shoot attack is scary, a good weapon to use command points !

 

Cullexus. If playing against psyker, he is a must have... I played him against Thousand Sons... ^^

[Vlk]

 

Eversor notes after 1 game vs Orks.

 

Expectations: He would do a 9" charge into a massive squad of Orks, kill a bunch of them and then die. 

 

Reality: He failed the 9" charge with a roll of 2, 2, 1.. so not even rerollable!  But... managed to kill a Trukk, and about 20 boyz who charged him before getting overwhelmed.  He was a fantastic distraction, great at Overwatch and is genuinely useful against hordes for 70pts. 

 

The only downside is that he gives me -1 CP in my pure AdMech force... but AdMech aren't naturally great at hordes and I still think he's a worthwhile addition.

 

 

Whoa how the hell did that guy kill 20 boyz who CHARGED HIM? He deserves a goddamn medal!

 

I would expect them to just stomp him into the ground before he swings.

[Finkmilkana]

Well I guess he either used the stratagem to go first or the boyz were in a position where only a few could actually attack him the first time. If only lets say 10 made it into 1 inch of a model within one inch of him that's "only" about 7 unsaved wounds on average. If he then rolled well/the orcs rolled badly, he could survive a round.

[Constantine Trajanus Ultor]

Great discussion ! I'm building a pure Custodes army and the psychic phase has me worried. I've been debating sisters of silence or a Culexus assassin to lessen the impact should I face a strong psyker army..... but after reading, I'm adding a Culexus. Another model on the table for others to worry about. 

[Arkeo Nox]

I play an execution force every game since the release of 8ed. They are awesome.

 

My opponent loose two to three turn dealing with them, they put so much pressure on your opponent, even during the deployment.

 

Maybe even to strong, at least at low level game (1000 points).

[RaEndymion]

I play an execution force every game since the release of 8ed. They are awesome.

 

My opponent loose two to three turn dealing with them, they put so much pressure on your opponent, even during the deployment.

 

Maybe even to strong, at least at low level game (1000 points).

 

Assassins are silly at 1000pts or less. I recently played a 1000pt tournament with 9 Eversor Assassins (And some guardsmen) and only armies with a few tanks gave me trouble. You pretty much just first turn charge with all of them and wipe out the enemies best units right away.

Edited August 5, 2017 by RaEndymion

[CrimsonCorvidae]

If you're making a Battle-Forged army with the Space Marines, don't you have to take them as an Auxiliary Detachment (-1 CP) otherwise you lose your Chapter Trait? Or in a Vanguard detachment, with a HQ and 2 other Elites you don't mind losing Chapter Tactics...

 

I have an Eversor and Callidus I love to use, but haven't taken them out yet since C:SM dropped.

[CaptainHelion]

Inquisitor and three Assassins isn't an awful addition to literally any army, lets be fair.

[Halfpint100]

I am planning to use one of each vs necrons tomorrow. Lets see what happens!

[CrimsonCorvidae]

Keep us updated! Be interesting to hear how well you get on.

[Madmonkeyman]

I've used Celestine and 3 evasors and it works really well. Celestine can move 24 and charge as she can move twice and the evasors all charge turn 1

[Halfpint100]

So against necrons:

 

Eversor, useful as always, cheap and devastating

Vindicare, disappointing, did not do as much as i had hoped (cloak and shadow game didn't help -1 to hit over 18" away). so unsure if i will use again

Callidus, more useful for the fear factor of using extra command points and a mortal wound weapon is nice. Unfortunately fluffed her attack rolls on a T1 charge and got beaten down by a destroyer lord. 

Cullexus, wasnt that useful with necrons not having psykers and i only really used it to capture objectives and not get shot off since 6s are needed to hit. A useful turn 4 objective grabber IMO. 

 

The eversor is probably the only assassin i will take no matter the opponent. the rest will depend on what army i will be facing