Why assassins are so good! (8th edition)

[Deadnaughty]

The vindicare sounds nice but once you do the math he is actually the most expensive sniper on a per wound basis.

 

Ratling come out the best.

[Blood_Devil]

I'm thinking of using a Vindicare alongside BA sniper Scouts.

Tucked into a squad of them, he'd be virtually untargetable, and he can hopefully finish off anyone the squad(s) of scouts soften up, or vice-versa.

[CrimsonCorvidae]

Nice idea to hide the vindicare. That is probably what he is intended for, or to soften up big guys before a charge.

 

I used an Eversor yesterday. He killed a Plaguecaster and consolidated into Plaguemarines. Typhus charged into the combat and killed the Eversor. Nice little distraction for 4 power!

[ValourousHeart]

This past weekend I ran an Assassin Team vs Deamons.

 

My list was Celestine plus 2 Gemina Superiors and 1 of each of the assassins in the Konor mission 3 (Deamons had to run across the board to escape)

 

My opponent had a Korn DP, Korn Herald, 20 Bloodletters, 3 Bloodcrushers and an Exalted Seeker Chariot of Slaanesh.

 

Game was played where the Deamon player had to escape off the short board edge.

Celestine was on the left flank facing the Chariot and Blood Crushers.

Culexus and Eversor on the Right flank facing the DP and Herald.

Vindicare was on the highest perch with the best LOS... there was still a lot of big cityfight terrain, so there were plenty of routes that my other models would need to protect.

 

Bloodletters and Calidus in reserves.

 

He got first turn.

Herald summoned the Bloodletters.

Chariot charges Celestine and DP charges the Eversor and Culexus.

Chariot killed both Gemina Superiors, Celestine killed the Chariot.

DP knocked the Eversor down to 1 wound, and the Eversor and Culexus knocked the DP down to 3 wounds.

End of his first turn.

 

My first turn Celestine auto revives 1 Superior and used the act of faith to bring the other back too.

Vindicare kills one of the Bloodcrushers and Celestine and Superiors kill the other 2.

Calidus pops up and kills the Herald.

Eversor brings the DP down to a single wound.

DP kills the Eversor, which exploded and killed the DP.

 

Great news, the Eversor only hurts enemy models when it explodes.  My Culexus was relieved to find that out.

End of Turn 1.

 

Top of Turn 2, Bloodletters charge the Culexus.

Culexus loses 1 wound, bloodletters lose 2.

 

Celestine, Calidus, and Vindicare all start moving as fast as they can to get into charge range.

Only Celestine makes it into combat.

Celestine and Superiors kill 5 and Culexus kills 1.

Bloodletters kill one Superior.

 

Deamon player concedes.

[Blood_Devil]

I used a pair of Vindicare Assassins last week, alongside a Jump Pack heavy Blood Angels list. My opponent was Imperial Fists.

 

The results were... less than I had hoped for. Maybe it was bad rolling (I also had a squad of DC charge an enemy Captain, put one or two wounds on him, then get wiped out on the counterattack, and was only successful in manifesting maybe two or three powers all game long between Mephiston and a Libby), but I had a hard time consistently hitting, wounding, and finally punching through saves. My opponent made a lot of the 5+ saves I forced on him. I think it's partly due to their inability to get the rerolls larger factions can get from HQs. A 2+ to hit still misses 1/6 times. Same with the wounds. This is kinda a big deal when you only get one shot per turn per model. Without easy access to rerolls from models like Captains, Chapter Masters, Lieutenants, Chaplains, etc, one bad roll can turn your Assassin into a paperweight (or force you to burn a Command Point).

 

I still intend to get some Scouts to hide the Vindicares in, which I think will make them harder to target and supplement their ability to wound characters. This seems like it could get expensive, though. 90 pts a pop per Vindicare and per five man Scout squad will add up; two of each will be 360 points dedicated almost entirely to killing characters. As noted, this could be well worth it if they kill or render impotent a lynchpin HQ or two, but they could die like flies or simply fail to do anything meaningful.

 

I think they'd fair better against units that rely on invulnerability saves and/or have crummy armour saves. I could see them eating IG, Harlequins, or many Daemons alive, provided you had enough of them to help make sure that one or two bad rolls won't screw things up.

[Claws and Effect]

I already have a Culexus and Eversor. 

 

I'll be getting a VIndicare soon and camping him near my Scout snipers. 

 

Planning on doing a Vanguard detachment with a random HQ unit. Maybe just a basic Inquisitor to keep it cheap. 

[Deadnaughty]

I used a pair of Vindicare Assassins last week, alongside a Jump Pack heavy Blood Angels list. My opponent was Imperial Fists.

 

The results were... less than I had hoped for. Maybe it was bad rolling (I also had a squad of DC charge an enemy Captain, put one or two wounds on him, then get wiped out on the counterattack, and was only successful in manifesting maybe two or three powers all game long between Mephiston and a Libby), but I had a hard time consistently hitting, wounding, and finally punching through saves. My opponent made a lot of the 5+ saves I forced on him. I think it's partly due to their inability to get the rerolls larger factions can get from HQs. A 2+ to hit still misses 1/6 times. Same with the wounds. This is kinda a big deal when you only get one shot per turn per model. Without easy access to rerolls from models like Captains, Chapter Masters, Lieutenants, Chaplains, etc, one bad roll can turn your Assassin into a paperweight (or force you to burn a Command Point).

 

I still intend to get some Scouts to hide the Vindicares in, which I think will make them harder to target and supplement their ability to wound characters. This seems like it could get expensive, though. 90 pts a pop per Vindicare and per five man Scout squad will add up; two of each will be 360 points dedicated almost entirely to killing characters. As noted, this could be well worth it if they kill or render impotent a lynchpin HQ or two, but they could die like flies or simply fail to do anything meaningful.

 

I think they'd fair better against units that rely on invulnerability saves and/or have crummy armour saves. I could see them eating IG, Harlequins, or many Daemons alive, provided you had enough of them to help make sure that one or two bad rolls won't screw things up.

If you do the math you will see that the Vindicare is actually one of the worst snipers Imperials have access to on a points per wound basis. (with the best being the humble ratling).

[CrystalSeer]

What I'm finding with mine is that assassins work primarily as a team. Running all 4, their specialties complement each other rather well. It also helps them cover each other's shortcomings.

 

They're finally cheap enough to work this way, coming in at roughly the same cost as a beefed up unit.

[Madmonkeyman]

I have found running evasors as a team of 2-3 really works well. One by its self is easy to ignore. 2or 3 assassins just causes chaos for not too many points .

[Blood_Devil]

If you do the math you will see that the Vindicare is actually one of the worst snipers Imperials have access to on a points per wound basis. (with the best being the humble ratling).

I think I'll take the middle ground of Scouts. A fair bit more survivable and easier to generate rerolls with my existing HQs. I kinda had an idea of parking my long range heavy weaponry like Preds or Devastators, some scouts, and a Captain (and maybe a Lieutenant) all in proximity and letting that act as a gunline to support my assault units. Everyone hits on 3s, rerolling all ones to hit and wound. The math, I assume, is done in a vacuum, not including force multipliers, and definitely not factoring in multiple units performing different tasks all benefitting from the same force multipliers instead of the BA models needing one set of HQs and the Ratlings needing another. There's always Grampa Smurf, but... no. There's a reason I'm playing BA instead of Vanilla Marines.

 

Speaking of, if the Blood Angels codex takes the route the vanilla book took, I'll be glad to keep my detachment entirely BA. The Red Thirst may very well end up being one of those things only unlocked if the entire detachment uses a single faction.

 

Plus, scouts are troops, the better to fill out a Battalion (or Brigade!) for those command points.

 

I previously considered ratlings, but that would also probably mean I'd want to get some Guard HQ choice(s), and then we're opening a can of worms much more significant than "Blood Angels and one or two allied infantry models".

 

And the ratling squad models just don't do any for me. I think that's possibly the biggest mark against them. If they looked cooler or even were more easily customized I could maaaaaybe pick up 3 and a Guard HQ and run them as a Vanguard detachment, but the idea of running a whole bunch of copies of five hard to convert metal models that I think are ugly is a tough sell. Especially when some of them are barefoot and I'm using snowy bases for the rest of my models.

 

Brrrrr.

 

Not even my superhuman Space Marines are that daring!

Edited August 27, 2017 by Blood_Devil