Tide v Horde

Acebaur · June 15, 2017

How about something like this:

2 x full crusader hammer/fist squads with Grimaldus & Cenobytes

4 x min heavy bolter crusader squads

5 x Ven Dreads with Las/Auto

Bare bones Cap & Bare bones Primaris Lieutenant (I know, I know. ..call them the Master of Ordinance or something)

That's 10 lascannon shots and 20 autocannon shots hitting on re-rollable 2+, re-rolling 1s to wound, screened by 4 small deep strike prevention units, covering the advance of 40 morale-immune troops.

7 CP for maxing lascannon damage, that should give your opponent something to think about at least.

I dunno, that doesn't feel very Templar like to me. Efficient and powerful yes, but Templar? Not doing it for me really.

FortesMastery · June 15, 2017

How about something like this:

2 x full crusader hammer/fist squads with Grimaldus & Cenobytes

4 x min heavy bolter crusader squads

5 x Ven Dreads with Las/Auto

Bare bones Cap & Bare bones Primaris Lieutenant (I know, I know. ..call them the Master of Ordinance or something)

That's 10 lascannon shots and 20 autocannon shots hitting on re-rollable 2+, re-rolling 1s to wound, screened by 4 small deep strike prevention units, covering the advance of 40 morale-immune troops.

7 CP for maxing lascannon damage, that should give your opponent something to think about at least.

2 points over 2000 with the Primaris. Drop him and put in an Apothecary to help get those guys over the table.

Andrés Pacheco · June 15, 2017

I dunno, that doesn't feel very Templar like to me. Efficient and powerful yes, but Templar? Not doing it for me really.

That's cool, everyone will have their own feelings about that kind of thing, and I appreciate is not exactly full of codex cover units.

It's got 44 crusading foot sloggers though, and dreads are like ancient, gun covered reliquaries, so it still works for me :)

Firepower · June 15, 2017

Actually I could see that sort of deployment for a defense of something super important, waking up all the old knights in the place, grabbing the big guns, and hunkering down until the Big Daddy Fleets arrive to reinforce and allow the chainswording to begin :lol:

But overall, stabby > shooty for Templar 'feels.'

FortesMastery · June 15, 2017

I mean its 40 dudes charging supported by Dorn-style Heavy Bolters while a Castellan guides his brothers on where to direct their fury at not being stuck in. Really it doesn't feel very Templar because no tanks.

Gendo · June 15, 2017

Maybe Predators if you don't already have the Dreadnought models?

Also you have so many lascannons that you could save the money on the Hammers/Fists and have Axes instead.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Gendo

Andrés Pacheco · June 16, 2017

Fine! :) Not enough tanks, too many guns....how about:

2 x 5/5 man crusader squads in Godhammers

1 x 5/5 man crusader squad with Grimaldus and Helbrecht in an LRC

2 x double autocannon Ven Dreads

Only 35 bodies now, so much less of a tide, but more of a Pow, Right In The Kisser approach than before?

Firepower · June 16, 2017

I feel like we're getting a wee bit off the mark, so let's look at it this way:

In a 2000 point list, you can have 8.333 Crusader Squads of 20 bare bones Templars, which is about 160 models and some change. Instead of starting the list building at 0 points and adding our way up, let's use that as the beginning and work our way back. Set a bar that you consider 'Tide' worthy, like 50 or 60 bodies, and work to keep from dropping below that number.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Firepower

Gendo · June 17, 2017

3x 20 Man squads with LasPistol, PowerAxe, PlasmaGun and GravCannon to get more shots when moving and 4 Boltguns = 882

Seems versatile and as you take casualties you remove the Boltguns. Ideally having the Retinue and Apothecary is essential in large squads so 2x 20 man is the max i would run but not really a tide.

Andrés Pacheco · June 17, 2017

I feel like we're getting a wee bit off the mark, so let's look at it this way:

In a 2000 point list, you can have 8.333 Crusader Squads of 20 bare bones Templars, which is about 160 models and some change. Instead of starting the list building at 0 points and adding our way up, let's use that as the beginning and work our way back. Set a bar that you consider 'Tide' worthy, like 50 or 60 bodies, and work to keep from dropping below that number.

Ha ha, sorry. I think I got list tourettes and started randomly shouting things at the Internet :)

Meanwhile, back at the tide list....

The two biggest problems seem to be morale and durability. 20 man squads suffer from morale losses heavily, so currently Grimaldus seems essential to prevent that. I can't find a way to provide any defence while the tide crosses the board other than situational cover etc. And there's no Hide in Tide. Well, actually, there nearly is, I suppose, but details like that smell of Xenos trickery and witch talk....

If we had an Azreal ++ bubble.... <swoon>

Any mileage in a VV (sword brothers) list? Everyone with a cheap storm shield for added protection, but they can still be drowned in small arms, so it's probably not a keeper. 60 VV and support characters can fit in 2000 points, so it reaches tide level bodies, at least?

Acebaur · June 17, 2017

I don't think you need to be on foot to have 50-60 bodies. If your average marine is 15 points (taking into account veterans and neophytes) then 50 marines is only 750 points. That leaves plenty of room for some transports to help protect some of them

Andrés Pacheco · June 17, 2017

I don't think you need to be on foot to have 50-60 bodies. If your average marine is 15 points (taking into account veterans and neophytes) then 50 marines is only 750 points. That leaves plenty of room for some transports to help protect some of them

Completely, apologies, I was just trying to throw out some conceptual stuff for a heavy footslogging list. But you're absolutely right, plenty of room for transports if you want to go mech.

The problem I'm finding is with full 20 man squads, there aren't any transports you can use (apart from FW), so there is little protection for your T4 no ++ models, even with armour on the table to support them. If you reduce the numbers to fit them in transports, I'm struggling to capture the tide feel in terms of body count.

AndrewChristlieb · June 17, 2017

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [101 PL, 1990pts] ++

+ HQ +

Chaplain Grimaldus [6 PL, 120pts]

High Marshal Helbrecht [9 PL, 170pts]

+ Troops +

Crusader Squad [8 PL, 180pts]

. 2x Initiate

. Initiate w/Heavy Weapon: Grav-cannon and grav-amp