Schlitzaf Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 My best success has been 3 14 Man Squads of Crusaders with Ceno and Vanilla Marshall in the center. My army was built entirely under the principle of Target Saturation. Or suppose similar to a classic Tyranid lists the Wave Assault. I have several Squads (Marshall, Assault Terminators and Scions gonna be trying Marshall, Interceptors, Scions and Ponies), deep strike in front of my enemy. I call these "Deal with me". Their jobs aren't to neccessary kill someone, but to force enemy fire power to divert from my blobs. They are numerous and durable enough that I divert my enemy attention for a turn or two. 24" - (12 + 4ish) leaves 8". Which means a 7" charge will make. This becomes even easier if my foes are moving to face me as well. In smaller levels I found a Crusader + Intercessors a strong combination. Intercessors move with the Crusaders taking pot shots sense they rapid at 15 they have a large threat range and able to deal with light armor reliably. I am going to test this at a higher point value. Also hide Cenos behind cover. You don't need to see to benefit and 12" is long. After losing 5-6 dudes you don't need to worry about battle shock again. Once your down to 8ish danger of battle shock is lessened. Also I include a single company ancient who turns dying Crusaders into potshots back. I will stress, the "Deal with it" units are vital. And should be able to disrupt enemy lines and force response. And preferably rapidly redeploy as needed. I think the tide still works. Just the Tide has more than a tide. d36williams 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lippy Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 So I'm going to have my first True 8th ed game tomorrow, against Orks. I've played a 2v2 with small 25 pwr per person, and another 50 pwr 1v1 but neither game have been 'properly played' so tomorrow is the first. No idea what he's bringing, but I'm expecting the standard units. My plan is: Vanguard Detachment Chaplain Terminator Assault sqd x 5 w/ LC 5x Vanguard w/ Jumpack, 2x PwrSwrd/SS, serg has LC and then 2 chainswords Ven.Dread - Flamer & Ass.Cannon (I really want to find the points for the hvyflamer) Batallion Helbrecht Emperor's Champ Crusaders - 8x Inits Flamer, Axe, PwrSword, 5x Neophyte Crusaders - 5x Inits Grav Cannon, Grav Gun, CombiGrav Crusaders - 5x Inits Grav Cannon, Grav Gun Crusaders - 5x Inits M.Melta, Melta Gun, CombiMelt Crusaders - 5x Inits M.Melta, Melta Gun Crusaders - 5x Inits Lascannon, Plasma Assault Squad - 5 off. I don't have any with flamers :( Land Raider Crusader. Looking forward to it, but its highly sub-optimal as I'm still at the 'lets throw these models down and see how they work' phase, hence all those heavy weapons. Missile Launchers would obviously be the best here, but due to being a new initiate in October, and building towards 7th ed, I don't have any made up. I could proxy them though. Walking marines never used to work that well, but we'll see how it goes. Will report back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Did you mean to put storm bolter and Ass cannon on the Dread, because it can't take a normal flamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wolfhart Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 I had a 1500 pts game against orks yesterday with my pointy ears and they're nasty. Was facing 90 boys with some characters for a total of 6! attacks per ork, plus bikers and two flyers. I never had enough firepower to put a dent in the tide as he even brought a dok for fnp... also biker nobs will charge 1st turn if you don't deploy carefully. I would consider changing the heavy weapons to hvy bolters and missile launchers if you can manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lippy Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 Did you mean to put storm bolter and Ass cannon on the Dread, because it can't take a normal flamer. No actually, I was being lazy with my typing! Currently equipped with CCW & HvyFlamer, Ass.Cannon. I meant I wanted to find the points to squeeze in the Twin HvyFlamer instead of the Assault Cannon. Acebaur 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golf33 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 How did he get to 6 attacks? Boys are 2, choppa is +1, a weirdboy could cast another +1, and Ghazghkull is +1. Where does the last +1 come from to get to 6? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wolfhart Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 I don't quite know. It wouldn't have made a difference had they been 5 attacks, but i think he got one bonus for charging (i accepted that as something orkey, i'm aware there are no general bonus attacks for charging in 8th). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysere Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Big enough blobs get a bonus attack as well. Thin those numbers and they'll lose it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golf33 Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 Oh! I'd missed the Green Tide rule, boyz mobs 20+ strong get an extra attack. Ouch. Makes thinning them out extra important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wolfhart Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 That was it :D Still it's really hard to efficiently dispose all those 6pt ork bodies, add to that a painboy and maybe even a forcefield mek and it goes downhill. I will take great care in my listbuilding to be able to thin hordes to manageable numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kontakt Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) 6 point orks? Good spot for 3 pt conscripts Finding a way to get the charge on them instead would be preferable, a line of conscripts with a commissar is becoming the local meta to prevent enemy charges. It is still early in the meta, but I feel marines in general are missing something (chapter tactics, serious dakka support, the opportunity to get the charge). Edit: I hope I am missing something, but I feel swarms/mobs will eat us, I think Edited June 24, 2017 by Kontakt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Doren Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 I only played one game so far and it was a small one 650pts. Even at that size i felt like many weapon and vehicle choices are simply unattractive when scaled up to 2k+ size games. Glad i still have 200+ guardsmen from 3rd. Now to get a rulebook... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wolfhart Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 I wouldn't say marines in general lack firepower, even a rhino with two stormbolters puts some antihorde down, not to speak of Razorbacks with twin heavy bolters our assault cannons. Sadly bodies isn't the answer for enemy's bodies to us. That said i'm still gonna try ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Corbin Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 There is also the hefty amount of dakka poured out by a trio of Land Speeders equipped with a Heavy Bolter and Assault Cannon. That is 18 S6 AP-1 shots from the Assault Cannons and 9 S5 AP-1 shots from the Heavy Bolters. Add to that they can move 20" for being a unit of 3. Guardsmen or Orks or Nids beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 As repulsive as they are, try giving a LRC full of Hurricane-H Bolter Centurions a look. Incredible amounts of dakka. Marshal Wolfhart 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 So my Two Crusader squads went blow for blow with two units of Boys. Here is what I learned. Kill that Pain Boy asap. While the Pain Boy lived he could tank wounds and our Squads we're even, and basically on par with on another. The moment the Pain Boy went pop our Crusaders annihilated the opposition. And second Intercessors once again prove their weight in gold. They have a smaller foot print, which allows them to run alongside a larger Crusade Squad almost perfectly. And provide covering fire and charge to help our boys. Given 11 attacks on the charge. They add a not insignificant number of dice. Especially because you can go, charge Crusaders then Charge Intercessors the following turn. For a quick one two punch. A Crusader-Intercessor Combo is proving to me the best way to run our Crusaders. Honda 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebaur Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 And for those not interested in Primaris marines, Sternguard provide the same support in a slightly less durable package. :D Honda 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Well you actually have more firepower with a -2 AP vs -1 AP but with an increase vulnerability to small arm fire (2 wounds vs 1 wound so 10 wounds vs 5 wounds). And with army composition that would require another troop choice (not saying Crusader Squads would be bad for that just something to remember). So especially dealing with units like Boyz, a Sterngaurd only have one wound will become more noticeable. The reverse being the case of if you come across a force of light tanks the Sterngaurd will serve you better on the offense. Similar roles, and similar power. But their are some nuance differences between Intercessors and Sterngaurd that would affect their usage as Crusade Squad support. (And important to remember if you choose to use one unit over the other unit) Acebaur 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted June 25, 2017 Author Share Posted June 25, 2017 Something I recently noticed that wouldn't have occured to me at first- it seems you don't need Grimaldus in the list for you to take Cenobytes, although they are limited to a single quad per army. I just assumed they were the same old same old as always (well, there were non-Grim Cenobytes in 4th too) but it seems otherwise. I also didn't notice they're an Elite choice. :lol: So anyway, 6 points is all you need to get the little cloud of Morale for the Tide. Or is there a grim-only line that I am indeed missing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlitzaf Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Nope no Grim Line. Assuming you don't mind your Cenos being WS/BS 5+ LD 5. I'd argue I think Cenos are mandatory part of the Black Tide, or really any Templar list beside something running 5 Man MSU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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