Unit of the Week 8th: Land Raiders

[Acebaur]

So a new edition and new books across the board means a whole lot we need to discuss. Especially considering the very drastic changes to the game(most of which I think are great). So in light of that we are kicking off the UotW this year with 3 initial topics to get the ball rolling!

 

Here we will discuss perhaps the most iconic tank in the Space Marine arsenal, the might Land Raider! Vehicles received a significant overhaul in 8th edition, making them far more durable but also fairly significantly more expensive too. The Land Raider is a might beast indeed now sporting one of the few 2+ armor saves on a vehicle. It's armament is also far deadlier than before whether it be the long range power of the lascannon or the brutally powerful assault cannons. Frag assault launchers are also quite deadly now, able to cause mortal wounds to enemy units!  

 

So with the changes to vehicles has the LR earned its place back on the table top as a force to be reckoned with? How to do you plan to make use of it's significant transport capacities and being able to transport multiple units? What tactics will you use to counter some of the deadly weapons it will face?

 

[Lysere]

Easiest counter to enemy big guns I feel is just throwing down more heavy armor.

 

List wise I have a few ideas kicking around. The obvious being some larger squads with a character or two hanging out in a crusader. Some other lists have multiple small units in each one instead.

 

The change to how many units a transport can hold allows for a lot more creativity when throwing units in them. Combined with all the awesome characters we have as marines you can do some rather interesting combos.

 

In 7th land raiders were only good if taken in certain formations/detachments. Now I feel even one land raider can really do some work. I'm hoping to test them out sometime soon.

[Firepower]

The LRC may be iconic Templar territory, but at the moment there are no special rules linking us to them as in previous editions.  It still has some special features to exploit for us, being a front line transport for a largely assault based army (between Cruader Squads and melee oriented Characters) and a Troop choice that can make full use of the transport capacity.  However, the latter isn't so much of a selling point now because of how units can share transports.

 

But while all Raiders got arguably better, the LRC is the one I know and love, so it's the one I'm gonna banter about for a bit.  As stated, it's way, way more durable than previously, and perhaps even more importantly the armaments can dish out hell now.  Previously the LRC was just a very expensive heavy transport which, with previous vehicle damage rules, was rarely even guaranteed to get your boys where they needed to go, and the only real threat was whatever it carried inside.  Now twin Assault Cannons and point blank hurricanes, along with an optional Multi Melta and the frag launchers follow up, makes it a beautiful treaded sucker punch of a beast.  

 

Even those Chapters not blessed with Sigismund's legacy should look at it long and hard now.  Sharing the transport between a few front line troops like Vanguard, Company Veterans, even (blech) Centurions makes for a great kick to the teeth, and you can cram multiple choices inside.  While not everyone has melee buffing Characters, Chapter Masters with to-hit reroll auras can pop out and give those 24 Bolter shots and 12 Assault Cannon shots (plus optional guns) rerolls, turning a storm of fire into an absolute firing squad, with a nice follow up jawbreaker from the frag launchers (not affected by re-rolls, but important to remember).  

 

It is a good deal more expensive now, but it was brutally overpriced previously.  Taking its capabilities and durability into account now, with a bare bones cost of 287, it's a steal.  

Edited June 21, 2017 by Firepower

[9x19 Parabellum]

I have nothing to base this on, but I think the LRC looks mint and I can't wait to try it out.

 

16 model capacity...that's 3 units of 5 tacs, scouts, sternguard, etc. plus a character.  Awesome

 

The ability to split fire and the new rules for rapid fire on hurricane bolters and twink linked makes all guns worth it; this thing is a meat grinder for medium-light infantry.

 

I love the frag assault launchers and can't wait to ram it into a unit hoping for some mortal wounds.

[KhorneHunter57x]

While not everyone has melee buffing Characters, Chapter Masters with to-hit reroll auras can pop out and give those 24 Bolter shots and 12 Assault Cannon shots (plus optional guns) rerolls, turning a storm of fire into an absolute firing squad, with a nice follow up jawbreaker from the frag launchers (not affected by re-rolls, but important to remember).

I fully intend on trying out a pair within the re-roll bubble - and my opponents hated my LRCs under the old rules.

 

The best Chapters for this would probably be Wolves, Blood Angels, and Raven Guard, as all three have access to a Chapter Master that can keep up with Land Raiders driving around at full speed (all the better to get within Rapid Fire range...)

[Rabidbunneh]

I'm trying to get my head around the FW land raiders. I'm tempted by the Achillus as it looks like a beast to put down.

 

The Prometheus looks cool as 24 heavy bolter shots that can ignore cover if they are close enough is a good way to thin out hordes, which look like they'll be more common in 8th.

 

The Helios is tempting from a rule of cool perspective. 2d6 s7 ap-1 shots from 72" away could really mess with lighter vehicles.

 

I still don't get the Proteus. I'm fixing up an old RT Land Raider for my Raptors but I've been put off after seeing the Proteus rules. Losing 4 transport slots for either a 5+ invulnerable save or the ability to keep things infiltrating a bit further away than normal seems a bit lacklustre for the points.

[Captain Idaho]

Standard Land Raider - in addition to being a great transport to get the unit you want where it needs to be under fire, this vehicle is the premium Main Battle Tank (MBT) in the game, in my seldom humble opinion.

 

What sets it apart from its closest contenders is the combination of higher armour, toughness 8, loads of wound and the ability to fire all of its weapons at full ballistic skill even when moving.

 

Some tanks have several of these traits but I believe none have all AND the weapons to knock out opposing MBTs. 4 Lascannons is enough to hurt just about everything.

 

Of course, Quantum Shielded Necron vehicles are not as vulnerable to a Land Raider as other vehicles, but those metallic muppets don't operate any MBTs. Besides, there's always another target for those Lascannons.

[Charlo]

I've never owned a Land Raider (well, other than the RT one I got to be a Proteus in need of repair...) but I'm really feeling like it's time to buy.

 

As Idaho said, they seem like the best all around tank in the game - always able to do their job and do it well with not many contemporaries able to match it.

 

Not to mention they work as incredible walls for things like jump troops and can even eat overwatch if need be (though I'd rather give the humble Rhino this job, as to fall back for a LR means it can't shoot it's mighty armaments).

 

Previously I would have gotten a redeemer, because flamers are my thang - but the Crusader with it's bigger capacity and more numerous reliable shots (24 Bolter shots at 12"!) really shines.

 

OH and the Excelsior (while costly) boasts some amazing firepower and the same buff as a Captain with obviously a MUCH larger sphere of 6" influence using that hull. Still able to transport ten models to boot!

Edited June 21, 2017 by Charlo

[Lephisto]

Looking at the leaked rules for the Land Raider, I made my decision to buy a land raider. But this time I'm gonna magnetize all the weapon options. I've seen the land raider in a few games and it is awesome. So much more durable and can deal a lot of damage.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I think this is what has most excited me about 8th. It looks like everything has the potential to be viable, even if there are some things that become "top tier".

 

Nothing is useless, and nothing is "auto-take".

[micahwc]

I used a vanilla land raider in a game the other day. It lasted four turns before it was destroyed and it crippled a razorback every time it fired.

 

It took fire from 1 twin asscannon razorback, 2 dual lascannon razorbacks, 2 leman Russ punishers and 3 hunter killer missiles to kill it.

Edited June 22, 2017 by micahwc

[Captain Idaho]

I forgot about the possibility of using one as a wall or cover.

 

I think the thing we have to most careful of is being tied up in combat. It's silly a vehicle can be trapped by enemy troopers when they could just run them over, but this is a fact of the game we have to consider when the tank gets close.

 

For that reason I think we have to carefully plan what we're going to do with Land Raiders. Predators, Leman Russ tanks and Hammerheads just want to hang back and blat things. Land Raiders full of troops risk being assaulted and either tied up, delayed or else mobbed and destroyed.

 

For that reason, I think the Redeemer is not such a good purchase. Sure it's Flamstorm cannons are powerful, but they won't be useful if an Ork Kan or Trukk charges it and soaks the overwatch then an Ork mob charges. Even if the tank doesn't die, what is it going to do now?

 

The level of planning required for a Redeemer is above that of the Crusader and Phobos and thus it's worth is more difficult to wring from it.

[mathaius]

I tried an empty LRC (i had planned a 5 men termi squad to go in there, but in the end i chose to DS) with a Captain and a Primaris LT running behind it.

I'm happy with its performance, and he even managed to put a couple of wounds on an Empowered Orikan with its Frag Launchers.

the next LR i want to test is the Godhammer, 4 lascannon and 6 HB shots sounds good.

I'm thinking to plonk it down in the middle of my DZ and dakka away, what would you put inside it? a shooty or a choppy squad?

[Kua]

For that reason, I think the Redeemer is not such a good purchase. Sure it's Flamstorm cannons are powerful, but they won't be useful if an Ork Kan or Trukk charges it and soaks the overwatch then an Ork mob charges. Even if the tank doesn't die, what is it going to do now?

 

The level of planning required for a Redeemer is above that of the Crusader and Phobos and thus it's worth is more difficult to wring from it.

 

I, too, was thinking about the place for the Redeemer without conclusion. It seems inferior to it’s alternatives, being as expensive as the vanilla LR but with much less expected shots to be fired per battle.

[PaddyG]

Fair warning, I've only gotten to use my friends land raider once, so take my ideas with a grain of salt.

 

Phobos is far and away my favorite from the imperium index 1, but with the addition of Cronus for a total of 414 it's a bit of a beast when it comes to points. However, with lascannons being our only 9+ weapons (barring vindicator, skyspears, and orbital strike) it seems worth it to put them on a durable weapons platform without a degrading profile. Seems to me to be a waste to get into the thick of things with this land raider, so I see it's transport capacity to perhaps hold 1-2 assault squads that can jump out to screen if needed.

 

Crusader is also interesting with it's 16 slots of transport. First thing that comes to mind is either 3 5-man tac squads with sicarius, or 3 5-man assault squads and a chaplain. The focus of this land raider, in my mind, is dedicated anti-horde. It's also a fair idea to put dedicated anti-monster squads in here, say a librarian, 5 TH+SS termies and 5 sternguard w/ plasma, for multiple threats.

 

Redeemer seems expensive, but once you factor in that the flamestorms do 2 damage at a -2 ap, with no penalty from a degrading profile, it starts to look fun. Maybe not efficient, but who doesn't love purging some foul xenos with fire? I could see my inner salamander loving this one haha. 2 5-man Sternguard squads with c-flamers+H-flamers anyone?? On a serious note, I'm struggling to find what the flamestorms choice target is. Seems very middle of the road with it's 6 strength, as though it wants to be jack-of-all trades.

 

Excelsior seems quite good, and can be taken as an HQ choice funnily enough, but the thing that really stands out to me is having an invul save. Even if it's only a 5+. I could see this being a (expensive!) force multiplier that can keep up with your other transports for a rush type strat.

 

 

Other than that, what does everyone think of the Forge-world Raiders? The Achilles with it's 4+ invul seems crazy durable.

[Alcyon]

Wasn't there a Land Raider with a Demolisher cannon at one point?

[Race Bannon]

^ Land Raider Ares.  TL Heavy Flamer sponsons and Assault Cannon turret as well.  I don't recall if it was an official GW model though.

[Kua]

It was an early Apocalypse suggestion with rules and a how-to-convert instruction from GW.

But not an actual kit or so.

[Alcyon]

See, that I would field. Sounds awesome.

 

The Phobos does seem better now than ever before but it is still a lot of points for one transport that can ferry units to likely one objective, and most units I'd take to go inside it already have a way to get around (teleport or jump packs.)

 

LR is still the best option for Honor Guard and depending on the points, might be a good way to combine units to help you go first and enhance survivability... though who knows if it's a better option to do that vs. multiple Rhinos/Razorbacks and Lascannon Predators.

[Brother Casman]

Interestingly enough, the original designer of the Land Raider Ares has posted an 8th edition version here

[sultansean]

The couple of games I have run them in, my opponent has made it a priority to charge them to tie them up and prevent them from shooting. Even combined charging them and then not allocating any attacks to them or just throwing a cheap hero at them is enough to stop them shooting for a turn.  You need infantry around them to keep this from happening but it is pretty easy for opponents to shoot those units away and then charge in. 

 

I did try running a Crusader and Godhammer with Azrael standing between them. The re-rolls to hit were very nice but I found with the 2+ armour save him handing out a 4+ invulnerable was not used very much since they were mostly just using their armour save anyways. I think an Azrael Land raider firebase could be effective if it was the core of your list, in that case you probably aren't really using them as transports at all. 

 

I wish POTMS allowed them to fall back and shoot. It wold also be nice if the assault ramps actually allowed a unit to disembark after the transport moved. 

[Kua]

Instead of shooting thei lascans on 3+?

Would really be better for them, at least in case of the Godhammer variant?

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Standard Land Raider - in addition to being a great transport to get the unit you want where it needs to be under fire, this vehicle is the premium Main Battle Tank (MBT) in the game, in my seldom humble opinion.

 

What sets it apart from its closest contenders is the combination of higher armour, toughness 8, loads of wound and the ability to fire all of its weapons at full ballistic skill even when moving.

 

Some tanks have several of these traits but I believe none have all AND the weapons to knock out opposing MBTs. 4 Lascannons is enough to hurt just about everything.

 

Of course, Quantum Shielded Necron vehicles are not as vulnerable to a Land Raider as other vehicles, but those metallic muppets don't operate any MBTs. Besides, there's always another target for those Lascannons.

Considering the Land Raider has a secondary role as a transport.. it's not really an "MBT" but I must say the changes allowing LRs Lascannons to be 4 shots is a huge boost to its anti-armor capabilities. 

[Captain Idaho]

Semantics really. I was referring to using the Land Raider as a MBT, which it does admirably.

[sultansean]

Rules question on the Crusader's Frag Assault Launchers. If I multi charge three units do I roll a 4+ for each of them?

 

With the Ultramarines Chapter Tactic letting things fall back and shoot Land Raiders can now do exactly what I wanted them to do.  

 

In my last game the Chaos player kept repeatedly charging my land raider with a Rhino. We couldn't hurt each other in Combat but his 70 point rhino stopped my 300+ point Land Raider from shooting for about 3 turns.