New Death Guard in 8th edition

[CaptainBoxman]

Has anyone else had a look at the Plague Marine entry in the CSM Codex?

 

How are we feeling about the surprising amount of melee options and customisability of the squads? Maybe it won't be exactly the same in the Death Guard Codex, but it seems as though almost every member of the squad can have something other than a bolter

[Lord Asvaldir]

Fairly sure what we have in our codex is a preview of the plague marine entry on the DG codex. Clearly all those extra melee weapons will be options in their new plastic kit.

 

Not sure how I feel about all those melee weapons though considering plague marines are only one attack, and it's weird that the champion can't take any of them except for a plague sword. I think sticking to plasma guns/blight launchers is the better option but perhaps the cc weapons will fit better in a full DG army.

[DeadFingers]

My stance on melee weapons depends highly on whether the Plaguecrawler can be used as a transport or not. If it can, then I'll probably have a dedicated melee Plague Marine squad that rolls around in a Crawler, even if it isn't that effective. I just like the idea of this slug-tank crawling up to the enemy and spewing out a bunch of Plague Marines with axes, mauls and all sorts of twisted melee weaponry and then having them engage the enemy while the tank spits whatever disgusting ammo it uses for its mortar. It's a nice mental image.

[Extropian]

2 attacks if they double up on melee weapons, which is kind of awesome when combined with their resilience.

 

I'm more interested in their flamer versions having 9" range though instead of 8". That extra inch is MASSIVE for charge defence against deep strikers and the like.

[DuskRaider]

I think assault Plague Marines is a nice option. What they lack in pure offensive killing like Berserkers, they make up for with sheer resilience.

[Extropian]

And honestly their offence isn't bad. 2 attacks, and the axe is better than a chain axe. They won't be the sheer slaughterers that Berzerkers are, but they are massively harder to shift. I like them tbh.

 

Some real basic maths of 10 Plague Marines attacking 10 zerks (basic because I haven't bothered with champs or anything for this, or worked out charging orders etc...just attacks).

 

10 axe/ dagger PMs will kill 7 Zerks on average.

10 axe/sword Zerks would kill 7 PMs.

 

That's honestly not bad. They aren't quite going to beat out Berzerkers against most targets (Berzerkers clear hordes like a threshing machine) but they shouldn't. In a straight fight though don't underestimate the Disgusting Resilience and Plague weapons....effectively whoever charges wins.

[Dallas Drake]

Options are never a bad thing, though I expected something more mid-long ranged in there too. Like plague shells for bolters or something. Anyhow...

 

Re: the melee weapon options - The flail and cleaver are brutal weapons. From the leaks I think we can make out the flail does d3 attacks for every attack on the users profile at S+2 AP2 D2 with excess damage carrying onto the next model in the unit; re-rolling 1s to wound for being a plague weapon. Give the guy a plague knife for 2d3 S6 AP2 D2 attacks and you could be doing 12 wounds to a unit, I'd say 5-6 is most likely but even so this is decent. I think 2 of these are mandatory if going for this load out & definitely a way to make up for being low attack/outnumbered. The cleaver is just a straight up better powerfist (plague weapon & d6 damage) so I'd include one of them for sure. I'm not sure which is better out of the belcher and spewer; I think I prefer the belcher, just for the ability to advance and shoot, then again S5 AP1 is good too & if you're within 9" you're probably going for a charge anyway...

 

FWIW I hope the inclusion of melee Plague Marines doesn't mean Possessed won't be in the DG Codex. Having axes and maces kinda makes me think that they're there as a way to make up for the omission of Possessed.

[Extropian]

You can't combine the flail with another weapon I'm afraid (or rather you don't get a bonus attack), so only 1d3 attacks. It's still quite nasty, but not as much as it sounds.

 

The cleaver is indeed really good, but again only 1 attack with that and it takes up your flail slots, so decisions to be made there.

[Commissar K.]

DG are lit! I think the Death Guard Codex will not dissapoint as long as there arnt too many oddities in writing. 
As above I love the Flail and Cleaver aswell, I really envy it as a Khorne player. It's fantastic and it's truely a huge change for how well DG preform in melee aswell. 

I think the possessed will be in there aswell. Basically I see the Index Army List options exactly what you can expect as the base of the Codex. Meaning that indeed instead of the Vidicator you will have the new tank. It is however more likely the Palaquin option will not be in the Codex and I doubt Obliterators a.o. will be suddenly in there aswell.

Still, some new units and characters are in there for sure:
- Mortarion
- Tallyman HQ
- Likely all the Scythe and Flail options will be there for your other non-Sorcerer characters also
- Death Guard Terminators
- Likely Death Guard Chosen (and I think the Mace options will be exclusive to them in the DG Codex)
- New Death Guard Tank (with likely 2 to build options)
- Likely more upgrades for Poxwalkers
- Possibly GUO?

Cheers,

[Plaguecaster]

I would be sad if Possessed are not in :( as it would be pretty stupid having the death guard army rules saying we can take them but the codex saying otherwise and it's not like they don't have models. Should be interesting what the terminators are like as I feel they will be a far better close combat unit than plague marines as I'd probably still use my plague marines as bolter squads with plasma or blight launchers in them, just sucks the champion can't take any of the new weapons

[Dallas Drake]

In that case I think the best option is to stick a powerfist on the champion and go with 2 x flails and belchers. I don't fancy 1 attack with a -1 to hit, even if it is Sx2 AP3 Dd6. The axe and knife combo could be good too, 2 attacks at S5 AP2 D1 but then aren't Possessed just a better option in that role if they are included and get access to DR?

 

Alternative take is build them to kill tough targets. 2 x meltaguns, 1 x powerfist, 2 x cleavers & whatever else with axes/maces.

 

EDIT: AP2, of course...

[Extropian]

Ap-2 on the axe, and re-rolls 1's to wound. It's a beast of a weapon for a "normal" squad tbh.

They will actually do more damage than possessed on average due to the wound re-rolls and other weapons they can mix in, though they are slower and only have 1 wound (though that's more than made up for at present at least by extra toughness and DR).

 

Again...I have to say that they have done a good job making no obvious auto-tanks here, which is good.

[Arkhanist]

I wouldn't put it past them to add a psychic power or strategem that adds +1A to a unit for a turn - on a CC equipped plague marine squad that would be brutal. 

[Urauloth]

Right now what I think about the melee options for the CSM plaguemarines is that they almost certainly mean we're getting a multipart kit with some gorgeous modelling potential. I really hope so, anyway.

 

Their utility on the tabletop is really going to depend on what else is in the DG codex, but count me in when it comes to those 9" plague spewers.

[Dallas Drake]

That would be a really good stratagem to push PMs up to quite nasty damage output. Also, if they gave DG a stratagem to re-roll failed hits in 1st round of combat say too then the low attacks wouldn't be so bad. I don't mind having 1 attack so much if I have a re-roll.

 

Knowing what we know do people think 2 x 5 man units or 1 x 10 man unit is best. I think they need a Rhino (the 2x5 man squad can both fit in one) otherwise they'll struggle to get into combat. I've been using 80 poxwalkers with 2 blightbringers and even with the 2d6 advance I can't see them moving fast enough, plus you don't really want them in front of the screening poxwalkers.

 

5 PMs (x2)

Champ with fist & plasma pistol

2 spewers

2 flails

 

10 PMs

Champ with fist & plasma pistol

2 spewers

2 flails

5 axes & knives (or 2 maces & axes + 3 axes & knives)

[Commissar K.]

Oh yeah you can rest asured that the kit will be fantastic. Likely it will be also a bit more expensive as usual but having opened that Space Marine Reiver kit recently I am quite certain the new Plague Marine kit will be outright amazing.

One of the best things I feel for Death Guard is that I feel the sculptors had a lot of inspirational ideas and frankly speaking I think they also really enjoyed creating them with all the battle damage and detail. It adds much more character as creating clean and very robot-like Primaris. Now for sure both are awesome but I always prefer detail over great areas of blank space armour ;) 

I believe that the Plague Marine kit will be on the same levels as the old but gold Chaos Space Marine kit. With tons of options and additional weapons exactly such as the Datasheet allows you to create them. Do keep in mind though that because they will be multi-part it's very likely they are a bit less dynamic as the Plague Marines from the starter kits. Like the Blood Warriors from Age of Sigmar some like this, some dislike this but it's typical that if you want to have interchangeable parts you will lose some dynamic movement options.

Spoilers from the past:
http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/8th-reivers-plaguemarines.jpeg

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/death-guard-2017-10.jpg

Nontheless they are most certainly what I'd call fantastic.

Cheers,

[MoGuy]

I hope GW will release them as a 10-men-box with two of each special weapons. 

[Extropian]

That would be a really good stratagem to push PMs up to quite nasty damage output. Also, if they gave DG a stratagem to re-roll failed hits in 1st round of combat say too then the low attacks wouldn't be so bad. I don't mind having 1 attack so much if I have a re-roll.

 

Knowing what we know do people think 2 x 5 man units or 1 x 10 man unit is best. I think they need a Rhino (the 2x5 man squad can both fit in one) otherwise they'll struggle to get into combat. I've been using 80 poxwalkers with 2 blightbringers and even with the 2d6 advance I can't see them moving fast enough, plus you don't really want them in front of the screening poxwalkers.

 

5 PMs (x2)

Champ with fist & plasma pistol

2 spewers

2 flails

 

10 PMs

Champ with fist & plasma pistol

2 spewers

2 flails

5 axes & knives (or 2 maces & axes + 3 axes & knives)

Whilst I think 5 man units are probably better, I'll be taking mine in units of 7 ;)

[Cryptix]

I hope GW will release them as a 10-men-box with two of each special weapons.

In a perfect world there'd be 4 of each so you can break it into two units but I can deal.

 

What pisses me off is champions can't take ANY of the new weapons! What the :cuss:

[Drudge Dreadnought]

My guess is that the champions can't take the weapons because in the DG codex, the weapons will be on the champions gear list. Seems like an oversight in the current codex.

[Panzer]

 

I hope GW will release them as a 10-men-box with two of each special weapons.

In a perfect world there'd be 4 of each so you can break it into two units but I can deal.

 

In a perfect world Crisis Suits would have an additional sprue just with weapons....but for some reason GW wants to earn money. :D

[MoGuy]

 

 

Let's hear some speculations! What do you think Morti will bring to the table? 

 

So stat wise I think something like this:

 

M WS BS S T W A LD SV

*   2+  2+  8 8 18 * 10  2+

 

When at full wounds he can move up to 18" and has 7 attacks. So he has the same stats as Magnus but better Toughness and Save. I actually don't know if T8 wouldn't be a bit too much, because I don't want Morti to end up costing 500+ points.

 

Silence should be something like: Sx2 AP-4 D6 with some special rule that let's him switch to a different attack mode like the superheavies to mow down droves of infantry. Or something that causes mortal wounds on the model/unit but then I think Silence should just do D3 because you don't really need mortal wounds when Morti hits you with 7 S16 AP-4 D6 attacks. 

 

Lantern could be: 24" Assault 4 S7 AP-3 D3

 

For special rules Mortarion has Disgustingly Resilient, a Debuff aura (on the 30K tabletop he gives -1LD to enemy units) and a buff aura for Death Guard units. Maybe re-roll Disgunstingly Resilient or re-roll to wound etc. He'll also have Nurgle's Gift since that seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

He's a psyker and can cast 3 or maybe even 4 powers. Same for denying. Also, since he hates Psykers so much I think he should get a +1 to his denying attempts. 

 

Argh, the more I think about it, the more I want that model. Come on September, I want to make my wallet cry in agony! 

[Checkmate77]

I was wondering whether anyone else had noticed that the price of PM had dropped by 2 points now the CSM codex is out.  I think this makes them a little more viable.  19 vs 21 points per model definitely helps.

 

Additionally I noticed in a lot of discussion that many people continue to use Plasma guns as their go-to weapons for the PM squads.  Granted in 7th edition I did too.  Now however I am intrigued by the Blight Launcher.  Has anyone used these yet in 8th and can give some insights into how they fared?

 

Personally (and no I haven't done the math sorry) it seems that Assault2 S:6 AP:-2 D:D3 is pretty good, not to mention that any to wound rolls of 1 can be re-rolled.  The way the new Toughness system works, I see these being IMHO almost a better option than Plasma Guns, especially in tournaments when you are unsure as to what sort of Army you will be facing.

 

thoughts?

[Bulwyf]

I'm just waiting for some kind of 40k Deathshroud terminators being official again. Those sneak peeks looked like several termies with scythes. I absolutely do not think that one guy was a new Typhus.

[MoGuy]

The Blight Launchers are really, really good! I use them rather than Plasma (only Champ get's Plasmagun). Together with the VotLW Stratagem they are good against anything. Wounding vehicles on 4+ and most infantry on 2+, re-rolling 1s.