Do the Space Wolves ever get a good win in the Horus Heresy?

[Ascanius]

Out of nowhere, the thought occurred to me that it's entirely appropriate that the Space Wolves never really get a big decisive win, because wolves are probably most dangerous when they're cornered.

[HeritorA]

Out of nowhere, the thought occurred to me that it's entirely appropriate that the Space Wolves never really get a big decisive win, because wolves are probably most dangerous when they're cornered.

Events from 'Weregeld' contradict that. If not for the Corax they would have been totally wiped out

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

 

Out of nowhere, the thought occurred to me that it's entirely appropriate that the Space Wolves never really get a big decisive win, because wolves are probably most dangerous when they're cornered.

Events from 'Weregeld' contradict that. If not for the Corax they would have been totally wiped out

Being wiped out doesn't make them any less dangerous. They may have taken many traitors to hell with them

[DogWelder]

 

 

Out of nowhere, the thought occurred to me that it's entirely appropriate that the Space Wolves never really get a big decisive win, because wolves are probably most dangerous when they're cornered.

Events from 'Weregeld' contradict that. If not for the Corax they would have been totally wiped out

Being wiped out doesn't make them any less dangerous. They may have taken many traitors to hell with them

 

 

Weregeld only showed the aftermath not the whole battle so it is possible the SW did inflict quite a bit of losses on the traitors numbers-wise. Still it was a major strategic and tactical win for the traitors. The SW's already depleted ranks from Prospero and Alaaxes were further decimated, its Primarch put out of action and Horus had one less loyalist Legion to face on Terra. 

[Calas Typhon]

 

Being wiped out doesn't make them any less dangerous. They may have taken many traitors to hell with them

It does not change the fact that they were pretty much cut to pieces and the Forces of Horus dealt a massive blow. They are dangerous not because they are Space Wolves, but because they are Space Marines. And other Legion in the same position would cause some significant damages in that position. 

 

However its not really surprising the wolves were on the back foot throughout the Heresy, they were relentlessly perused so they could not strike a hard blow to traitor forces. It was mentioned earlier and I echo it, the scouring was their moment to shine, when the tables turned and the pressure was released. So I don't really have any problems with them not getting a great victory in the Heresy.

 

I don't think the Loyalists should really get too many great and glorious victories in all honesty in the heresy and I think its pretty great the VIth were pursued so much. For one, it shows that they were deadly enough to have so much pressure put upon them, and secondly it reflects the fact that the period is mankinds darkest moment, what is more dark  for a Legion than getting outmanoeuvred and being put on the loosing side.

 

If they go deeper into the scouring, I am sure things will look very very different for them and those victories will pile up.

Edited August 14, 2017 by Warsmith Kroeger

[bluntblade]

Hopefully Wolf Cull will show the Sons of Horus going all-out to batter them so badly.

[Calas Typhon]

Hopefully Wolf Cull will show the Sons of Horus going all-out to batter them so badly.

I really hope the Sons go head to head in some brutal CC action with Reavers and Deathsworn butchering eachother. 

 

The Wolves are the perfect enemy to show how vicious both sides can be.

[1ncarnadine]

Well, to put it one way, Yarant fluff often notes the Alpha Legion, World Eaters and Thousand Sons were there, too. So 4 Legions take on and ambush the Wolves and they still don't manage to take out the VIth Legion. I guess the Thousand Sons are probably a splinter/fraction of that Legion, but still.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

 

Being wiped out doesn't make them any less dangerous. They may have taken many traitors to hell with them

It does not change the fact that they were pretty much cut to pieces and the Forces of Horus dealt a massive blow. They are dangerous not because they are Space Wolves, but because they are Space Marines. And other Legion in the same position would cause some significant damages in that position. 

 

However its not really surprising the wolves were on the back foot throughout the Heresy, they were relentlessly perused so they could not strike a hard blow to traitor forces. It was mentioned earlier and I echo it, the scouring was their moment to shine, when the tables turned and the pressure was released. So I don't really have any problems with them not getting a great victory in the Heresy.

 

I don't think the Loyalists should really get too many great and glorious victories in all honesty in the heresy and I think its pretty great the VIth were pursued so much. For one, it shows that they were deadly enough to have so much pressure put upon them, and secondly it reflects the fact that the period is mankinds darkest moment, what is more dark  for a Legion than getting outmanoeuvred and being put on the loosing side.

 

If they go deeper into the scouring, I am sure things will look very very different for them and those victories will pile up.

 

 

 

Agreed on all counts. 

Im not fanoby enough to think the Wolves alone could have survived Yarant, just saying that them being nearly wiped out doesnt make them any less dangerous. 

Quite the opposite actually. 

[HeritorA]

 

 

Out of nowhere, the thought occurred to me that it's entirely appropriate that the Space Wolves never really get a big decisive win, because wolves are probably most dangerous when they're cornered.

Events from 'Weregeld' contradict that. If not for the Corax they would have been totally wiped out

Being wiped out doesn't make them any less dangerous. They may have taken many traitors to hell with them

 

 

Again - same Weregeld has shown that wolves were losing badly - more wolves dies than the traitors, which is understandable under the circumstances.

4 Legions contingents were arrayed against the wolves with all the heavy support, etc.

Warsmith Kroeger

is totally right in both points.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

 

 

 

 

Out of nowhere, the thought occurred to me that it's entirely appropriate that the Space Wolves never really get a big decisive win, because wolves are probably most dangerous when they're cornered.

Events from 'Weregeld' contradict that. If not for the Corax they would have been totally wiped out

Being wiped out doesn't make them any less dangerous. They may have taken many traitors to hell with them

Again - same Weregeld has shown that wolves were losing badly - more wolves dies than the traitors, which is understandable under the circumstances.

4 Legions contingents were arrayed against the wolves with all the heavy support, etc. Warsmith Kroeger

is totally right in both points.

Now I'm trying to figure out if you are being obtuse on purpose...

 

I ain't saying the Wolves weren't losing badly.

I ain't saying the Wolves weren't losing more Marines than the 4 legions against them

I ain't saying they had a chance in hell or surviving Yarant without outside help.

 

All I'm saying is that the cornered Wolf Legion, heck ANY cornered Legion (examples could be Ultramarines at Calth, Thousand Sons at Prospero and loyal elements of traitor Legions at at Istvaan) would be incredibly dangerous even in death

[HeritorA]

Jarl Kjaran Coldheart

'Now I'm trying to figure out if you are being obtuse on purpose...' - Sigh. I do not try to be obtuse on purpose. My biggest problem with BaC so far is that my native language is not english...

 

'Being wiped out doesn't make them any less dangerous. They may have taken many traitors to hell with them' - you said they take many traitors with them. That's a disposion that wolves killed 'a lot of traitors' which they did not. Cause they mainly was dying under the guns of 4 traitoris contingents.

They prepared for the last 'glories' charge  - in which they all would have died to a man, without dealing any real damage (especially with Russ being delirious)  - cause AL,TS, SoH and WE are SM and not idiots (ok WE an exception :) ) who would never have given SW any rela opportunity to get close into melee range.

It's Theroretical vs practical.

[Huggtand]

Agree with most of the points made but have a few comments.

 

 

 

Events from 'Weregeld' contradict that. If not for the Corax they would have been totally wiped out

Being wiped out doesn't make them any less dangerous. They may have taken many traitors to hell with them

 

 

We don't know how many of the Rout was present on Yarrant. From the story I don´t get the impression that the total remaining legion is present, just a number of companies and Russ command cadre. Since not every company or the hole of the compagnies was present in the Prospero campaign there would logically be the same for the strike against the warmaster that a percentage of the legion was unable to join the strike.  

 

Most likely the Vlka scattered after the strike against Horus and the traitors main focus was to pursue Russ to finish the job.

 

 

'Being wiped out doesn't make them any less dangerous. They may have taken many traitors to hell with them' - you said they take many traitors with them. That's a disposion that wolves killed 'a lot of traitors' which they did not. Cause they mainly was dying under the guns of 4 traitoris contingents.

They prepared for the last 'glories' charge  - in which they all would have died to a man, without dealing any real damage (especially with Russ being delirious)  - cause AL,TS, SoH and WE are SM and not idiots (ok WE an exception ) who would never have given SW any rela opportunity to get close into melee range.

It's Theroretical vs practical.

 

 

Have to disagree a bit here. Yes the wolves was under threat but all four legions was pressing into their position. That's was why there was such a small window for evacuation before they reached the wolves line. The Jarls was preparing to receive a charge and make a last stand, not charge out themselves. That makes a hole lot of different in the tally you can reap. Don´t forget that many of the commanders in the legions like Abbadon liked to get "stuck in". Practical or not 

 

The end result would be the same though.

Edited August 15, 2017 by Huggtand

[bluntblade]

Splinter of Thousand Sons... Khayon?

[HeritorA]

Splinter of Thousand Sons... Khayon?

 

Traitoris contingents in Weregeld did not have POVs - so any other could say that his character could have been where.

Huggtand

I agree to disagree. 'The Jarls was preparing to receive a charge and make a last stand, not charge out themselves. That makes a hole lot of different in the tally you can reap. Don´t forget that many of the commanders in the legions like Abbadon liked to get "stuck in". Practical or not' - a) Wolves and last stand means the last charge against the odds - it's their nature and they not a big defend that point experts (comparing to others - dont go into but they had...) b) Even if Abaddon like to get close and personal - it's like with the 300 spartans - why lose man, then you could bombrd to oblivion and mop up strugglers later. c) It's the last stage of HH - every side is struggling to spare the forces they will need for the clash at Terra. Personal preferences of subcommanders does not hold any real law here.