8th ed Fallen Faction issues

[JustinianTheGreat]

Hey guys, interested in how people are reading the rules for Cypher and the Fallen. Was really looking forward to them getting a small boost in 8th edition & building an army around them that could double as DA Horus heresy models.

Looks like they're virtually unplayable though, unless i'm reading something wrong or thinking about it in the wrong way. 

Fallen datasheet does not have the Heretic Astartes keyword - which means they cannot board any of the CSM transports. Nor is the Imperium keyword sufficient to allow them to board imperial transports, as they have no special rule allowing that (ie like Inquisition). Finally, they lost the infiltrate special rule they received with the 7th edition formation. So basically there's no way to get them up the field. With only one heavy weapon they're not so exciting as a backfield option.

Cypher's datasheet has the same problem.

I don't see anyone fielding these in matched play due to the transport handicap. To put it more strongly, the units are even more a load of trash than they were in 7th edition, even with the points decrease. Am I missing something? Thoughts?


....all that's not to mention they have the same unexciting Chosen loadout they had in 7th. The re-roll & morale buffs are nice, if not extremely characterful.

[the jeske]

legal to play. very bad list if run as mono faction. If you realy realy realy want to use fallen you could use them alongside a lot of IG dudes .

[SickSix]

Yeah I was stoked to build some fallen after reading GSIII. After reading Cypher and fallen 8th data sheets, not so much.

[Trevak Dal]

Guess they gotta be manly men and not use transports.

[Raven1]

Yeah the problem is the wording in the Index since Fallen can't replace the <Legion> keyword, maybe they are meant to be footsloggers? I agree with Jeske as a mono build they will not work but if they are an extra detachment in conjunction I think they will find use in some lists.

[Closet Skeleton]

Unit that has been an allied unit since 2nd ed isn't viable as a full faction? Redundant fluff unit isn't worth taking unless you want to? No surprises there.

 

Lack of transports is irrelevant unless you're playing in a meta where anything but pure mech is suicide for marine armies. Or do people really only judge units based on the assumption that the enemy is a static gunline and that no mid range combats on either side of the centre line ever happen. Not being good at taking out backline artillery isn't the same thing as not having a role.

 

Fallen do nothing that company vets (or hellblasters) and chosen can't do with more synergy. But its not like 7 plasma guns with native rerolls is 'trash'. They're a unit that does a good thing at a fair price, that's never going to be useless. (assault chosen aren't great but that's not a big worry).

 

Fallen play badly with others compared to their equivalents but if you want them for fluff reasons then the fact that they play like the fluff would suggest isn't a flaw. If for some reason you want a squad of special weapon toting marines allied into a non-marine army then they're definitely better than hellblasters or company vets would be. So they're okay but work as the fluff would suggest, that's a good place for a redundant but cool unit to be in.

 

The other use of fallen is as a counter assault unit with a mix of melee and special weapons. The problem there is that all the factions that would ally with them generally already have their own native dubious value counter assault units (yay, something else to put in that electropriests/ogryns/repentia role).

 

Cypher can shoot and advance, he doesn't have any getting to the enemy worries. His problem is that flimsy harassment character isn't that amazing a thing to be. You have to work him hard and hope no unlucky accidents dispose of him early. Buffing fallen with him is a bad use of him since he works best with the sub par melee fallen, he's expensive as a buff character and buffing fallen with a character at all is wasting the only advantage fallen have but you can hang him near the fallen on the first turn while your units are getting into position.

 

The value of harrasment characters is really hard to gage in terms of 'getting their points back'. Used well he'll win games but he's not a power unit.