DKoK in 8th!

[Mitchverr]

 

1

Platoon and regimental standard missing from death rider command squad (used to get these back in the old book iirc)

Infantry squads cannot take heavy weapons

3

Give Venner the ability to get on a horse

Possibly extend grenadier assault to include engineers squads if no hades?

1. Those are not bugs, that is how it has always been for the DKoK.

 

3. Lets not clutter this with wishlisting, it defeats the purpose and is a good way to get the whole thing ignored.

 

 

1. Actually the heavy weapon wasnt in siege but iirc wasnt it possible in assault brigade, but in vraks under death rider squadron, we could take regimental standards in our company command squad, given the very strong ability of the flag and the role the riders take, it would be nice. The new commander for the riders is in effect the old colonel, so we should get his old command squad too(ie regimental flag for +1 attack).

 

3. I dont see how thats wishlisting, space marines get to go on bikes, no? Why cant we mount our horses, fluff wise most commanders come from the riders (they keep the boots if you notice). Engineers are also a front line unit, they should really be shock troops with grenadiers imo especially if they cant take the hades, but eh.

Edited June 27, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Are Verlo]

Question as I am a noob,

 

So priests from the regular guard, can you take them in a brigade of death korps? If so, does their War Hymn effect kriegers? I am just thinking if putting 1 of them into a command squad with a regimental standard would in effect give everyone +2 attacks within 6 inches.

Yes you can :-) and the old man Yarrick gives his buffs to any AM unit regardless of regiment. A priest and Yarrick would be legal as they all share the imperium keyword.

But I dont have the converting/kitbashing skill to make a DKoK-version of either a priest or Yarrick.

If it was a tournament I would bring them anyway..;-P

 

Regarding mistakes /omissions: The storm chimera is equiped with a AC and HB, but no mention of lasgun arrays.

[Mitchverr]

Given the laser array is in the weapons stat list for the vehicle, I assume thats an error :)

[Withershadow]

 

 

1

Platoon and regimental standard missing from death rider command squad (used to get these back in the old book iirc)

Infantry squads cannot take heavy weapons

3

Give Venner the ability to get on a horse

Possibly extend grenadier assault to include engineers squads if no hades?

1. Those are not bugs, that is how it has always been for the DKoK.

 

3. Lets not clutter this with wishlisting, it defeats the purpose and is a good way to get the whole thing ignored.

 

 

1. Actually the heavy weapon wasnt in siege but iirc wasnt it possible in assault brigade, but in vraks under death rider squadron, we could take regimental standards in our company command squad, given the very strong ability of the flag and the role the riders take, it would be nice. The new commander for the riders is in effect the old colonel, so we should get his old command squad too(ie regimental flag for +1 attack).

 

3. I dont see how thats wishlisting, space marines get to go on bikes, no? Why cant we mount our horses, fluff wise most commanders come from the riders (they keep the boots if you notice). Engineers are also a front line unit, they should really be shock troops with grenadiers imo especially if they cant take the hades, but eh.

 

1. Incorrect on both points. Neither the Assault Brigade nor the Siege Company rulesets for Death Korps ever allowed them to take heavy weapons in squads.  It would make even less sense for the Assault Brigade to be able to do it. I am looking at the Vraks 1 rulebook right now, the Death Rider Command did not have any options.

 

3. It is wishlisting because you are WISHING for new stuff that does not exist, rather than focusing on correcting obvious omissions and mistakes.  Asking for Engineers to take Hades drills makes sense, because in the fluff they were the first to operate them, they were introduced at the same time, and FW still sells them as a bundle.  Asking for Grenadiers to be able to take Hades drills makes no sense at all, has never happened before, and thus constitutes as a wish.  Asking for a mount for a special character who has always been on foot is a wish.  May as well ask for a few new units.   This misses the entire point of this list and undermines its primary goal.

[TheTrans]

I agree wither shadow.

Also as a note, in the latest Vraks book you could take a banner in a Death Rider Command Squadron.

[Withershadow]

Interesting, I never bought the re-printed Vraks book.  As a rule of thumb, I figure if there is not a model for it, there is no point asking for rules for it, although a Death Rider banner guy would be probably the easiest conversion ever. 

[The Pounder]

Yeah, I miss having the option of taking a standard with the Deathriders Command Squadron.

The conversion was a simple one but it's my favourite model in my force so far.

Quick question regarding Hellhounds, when it says we can take Hellhounds, does that include all variants too?

I'm thinking of running them along side the Deathriders.

[Mitchverr]

1. Incorrect on both points. Neither the Assault Brigade nor the Siege Company rulesets for Death Korps ever allowed them to take heavy weapons in squads.  It would make even less sense for the Assault Brigade to be able to do it. I am looking at the Vraks 1 rulebook right now, the Death Rider Command did not have any options.

 

 

3. It is wishlisting because you are WISHING for new stuff that does not exist, rather than focusing on correcting obvious omissions and mistakes.  Asking for Engineers to take Hades drills makes sense, because in the fluff they were the first to operate them, they were introduced at the same time, and FW still sells them as a bundle.  Asking for Grenadiers to be able to take Hades drills makes no sense at all, has never happened before, and thus constitutes as a wish.  Asking for a mount for a special character who has always been on foot is a wish.  May as well ask for a few new units.   This misses the entire point of this list and undermines its primary goal.

 

 

 

1. Fair enough on the infantry squad, perhaps i mixed it up from a previous version. However, literally squadron detatchment in siege of vraks, page 232 across from gorgan assault,

 

"in addition, a death rider company command squad may have any one death rider veteran exchange his death rider hunting lance for a death korps regimental standard for free" at the bottom of the page.

 

3. He asked for perfect world stuff, i gave him them, lol.

 

I didnt ask for grenadiers to take the hades, I asked for the engineers to take the grenadier assault centaur using the rules the grenadiers do, given engineers dont have a deep strike equiv anymore and they were fluff wise trench raiders too (and have 12 inch weapons). I said if we DONT get the hades for them, this would be a suitable alternative.

 

Venners rules were written in 2013 in 6th edition, given that death riders have expanded in value since then, its a logical step that Venner should be able to join them imo, but again, perfect world.

[The Prince]

The big things for me right now are: 
 

1 - Commissar Generals, Heavy Artillery Carriages are my two big ones. Obviously we can take them as a generic "imperium/astra militarum" addition, however without the DKoK keyword/stats - meaning no boosted WS or immunity to shooting casualties. I put these under major issues simply because there are dicks out there who will try to outright ban us using them until we get the right wording.

   - Engineers in Elites whilst Grenadiers are troops, just makes very little sense. Obviously they've flat copied the main Guard book, but when its a 5 man unit armed with 12" weapons and no way of getting quickly up the board - seems a bit lacklustre in comparison to having the scoring grenadiers with better range and ap weapons.

2 - Iron Discipline. Not a biggie however its weird to me the Elysians apparently gained our old special rule?

   - Siege Army Orders. Get rid of 'Move Move Move' and the pistol one, replace with 'Dig In' and 'FRFSRF' as an alternative (for us trenchy types).

 

3 - Rapier Laser Destroyers back into units of 1-3, especially as they only get 1 shot now (though I can see the counter argument to this).

4 - Where has all the carapace armour gone? Or in general where has the ability to upgrade armour gone for any faction? Also again why are veterans elites choices when they have no upgrades anymore?

[Sir_Gaea]

I'm apparently going to have to use my Chimeras as Storm Chimeras for my Inquisition force, because that's the only way I can use the autocannon turrets. Granted, I can see an Inquisitor claiming a pair of Chimeras with extra armor against small arms fire because well, reasons, but it's irritating that it's the only way to get autocannon turrets.

How does the inquisition get to use the autocannons? Is it in the Forgeworld book for Inquisition?

[Beaky Brigade]

 

I'm apparently going to have to use my Chimeras as Storm Chimeras for my Inquisition force, because that's the only way I can use the autocannon turrets. Granted, I can see an Inquisitor claiming a pair of Chimeras with extra armor against small arms fire because well, reasons, but it's irritating that it's the only way to get autocannon turrets.

How does the inquisition get to use the autocannons? Is it in the Forgeworld book for Inquisition?

Inqusitor and acolytes can requisition any Imperial transport they like. I think the only question mark is the land speeder storm as that specifies scouts only rather than just a faction restriction.

[Inquisitor Fox]

The exact rule is on the Inquisition section of Index 2, "Authority of the Inquisition".   I kind of think of it as the "Lilo Dallas, Multipass!" rule

 

"Hey, you can't be in here, this area is restricted!" "Lilo Dallas, Multipass!" "Oh, my apologies Inquisitor, right this way..."

 

on a different note, I received a reply concerning the Storm Chimera and the Gryphonne Chimera from Forgeworld:

 

 

 

Thanks for contacting us and we'll do our best to answer your questions.

 

The option for the Gryphone Chimera to take an autocannon was missed off by mistake so this will be addressed in a future faq/errata. There is a points cost for an autocannon so we suggest using that. The model should really be listed as having two lasgun arrays so this will also be addressed but in the meantime we suggest using the model with two arrays. 

 

The Storm Chimera does not have any lasgun arrays and so the weapon profile was listed by mistake. 

 

Seems to clear that up pretty well.

[Mitchverr]

FW got back to me, we are supposed to have the artillery, its been passed on and shall be dealt with, recommended for now to just use as part of the army as most people should be accepting of it.

 

 

This was part of an email I sent about heavy stubber and heavy flamer in grenadiers and twin heavy stubber heavy weapons, they didnt mention anything to do with a specific unit, so they might mean "all of it will be fixed" perhaps.

[Withershadow]

Storm Chimeras don't have lasgun arrays?

[Inquisitor Fox]

Storm Chimeras don't have lasgun arrays?

 

The lasgun arrays aren't listed under the Storm Chimeras weapons, but they were on it's table.  So I asked for clarification and apparently they really don't have them (must have given them up for the extra armor instead).

[Sovereign12]

Was about to take the plunge and pick up some grenadiers. What do you guys think the best loadout for these gents are? Melta plasma or flamers?

[DietOfLiquor]

Question. What have you guys been using for dedicated anti-tank? 

Was about to take the plunge and pick up some grenadiers. What do you guys think the best loadout for these gents are? Melta plasma or flamers?

 

2 melta inside of a centaur for the scout and shoot seems like a good idea to me.

[Withershadow]

2 meltaguns do not inflict significant damage on anything of significance.  You'll strip a few wounds off a transport or kill a terminator, and then lose the unit.

 

Take a patrol detachment and use the Grenadiers as Storm Troopers. 

[Mitchverr]

Question. What have you guys been using for dedicated anti-tank? 

Was about to take the plunge and pick up some grenadiers. What do you guys think the best loadout for these gents are? Melta plasma or flamers?

 

2 melta inside of a centaur for the scout and shoot seems like a good idea to me.

 

I would go with flamers using scout move to get into range to fire on an enemy unit turn 1.

[Jam Master Flex]

Was about to take the plunge and pick up some grenadiers. What do you guys think the best loadout for these gents are? Melta plasma or flamers?

When I went on the Forge World site the other day the grenadiers weren't listed at the moment :(

[Mitchverr]

IIRC the grenadiers and the centaur assault carrier both no longer are on sale, I dont think they are coming back, which sucks.

[ThatOneMarshal]

Was about to take the plunge and pick up some grenadiers. What do you guys think the best loadout for these gents are? Melta plasma or flamers?

Plasma is always good, especially if you can get some orders so you can overcharge.

[Withershadow]

I would go with flamers using scout move to get into range to fire on an enemy unit turn 1.

Just like with the melta idea, this seems equally bad/pointless.

 

2D6 S4 hits is only going to kill a small handful of infantry, and that's if they are not mechanized.  In exchange that unit is effectively dead meat.

 

If you want to do ambush tactics, you can really overload a particular zone with outflanking Death Riders, air dropping stormtroopers, and Hades drill veterans.

[Mitchverr]

 

I would go with flamers using scout move to get into range to fire on an enemy unit turn 1.

Just like with the melta idea, this seems equally bad/pointless.

 

2D6 S4 hits is only going to kill a small handful of infantry, and that's if they are not mechanized.  In exchange that unit is effectively dead meat.

 

If you want to do ambush tactics, you can really overload a particular zone with outflanking Death Riders, air dropping stormtroopers, and Hades drill veterans.

 

 

With a 4+ save (and if they got into cover a little more) would require alot of hits to kill them, especially given DKoK rules supporting them holding the line, it would force your opponent to either "deal with these in front of them" or leave them to burn a hole in the line, if they are dealt with, its less guns firing on your main line.

 

None of those units can get into flamer range when they arrive btw, and the riders unlikely to do anything on that turn(unless i misunderstand their rule for flanking), the way I am seeing the grenadier assault is using 2-3 units of them (i am thinking 3) whom rush forwards in an area near each other to sit on an objective next to the enemy line then form a base of fire(either a table objective or something you personally think is a good holding point), thats going to be (if 3 units) 9 hotshots in rapid fire range and 6 flamers(other weapons could also work, eg if they bring back heavy stubbers) with 6 heavy stubbers from the centaurs forming a holding point on top of the enemy, While they are there, I would move my death riders (i got 20 of them in my list, a commander, command squad and 3 regular squads) forwards and push them as far forward as I can so they are on a turn 2 charge followed up by 3-4 infantry squads also rushing forwards behind the riders.

 

With that, the enemy now has 3 "attacking" lines to deal with along with the gunline which is sat back firing aswell, its a case of overwhelming units to choose to fire at. Grenadiers were pretty handy back in 7th when used in centaurs, now they are more useful in my view. Same applies to the death riders, rarely did I suffer massive losses to them when they advanced as the first wave in the past when they were weaker, now I suspect they will do much better aswell.

 

It isnt really about ambush, but sheer aggression and knocking your opponent off balance, I highly doubt people would expect such aggression from an army that traditionally is a gunline army.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Mitchverr

[Jam Master Flex]

I emailed Forge World yesterday, got this response just now:

 

" Hi ,

Thank you for contacting us about DKK Grenadiers Squad. As you've seen, we have recently removed several product from the Forge World web store that have been out of stock for some time. All of these products will need substantial work for us to be able to produce them again.

 

We hope to have many of these products back on sale in the future. Unfortunately we don't yet have a timescale for this work."

 

Looks like I'll be getting normal squads as proxy for now :(