DKoK in 8th!

[Die4Emprah]

Only played one game of 8th so far, but I did manage to use a lot of popular items-

 

On Yarrick:

I don't like blending codexes, but I was kind of skittish about fighting orks, whom I watched destroy a few Guard players in battle report games.. so I added him. Well worth it. Rerolling ones against anyone, but all misses against orks? dont mind if I do. I parked him next to a battery or two of earthshakers, and two tanks (which I also snagged from the Astro Mil codex)... rerolling guard BS on a punisher tank is rather satisfying. 

 

LR Tanks:
Bought them as Astro Mil via spearhead with Yarrick. Well worth it, I went shooty over flamey because I don't like being 8" from orks. 

Punisher cannon did good work, but the lascannon prow gun really paid off.

-Would take again if I needed an edge

 

Quartermaster:
FNP bubble paid out, only got one rez point during the other phase. He was useful mostly because my opponent was taking into account his bubble, which I like messing with their minds.

-Would take again

 

Earthshaker Crews:
The rules are wonky (again) but meh. The crew are now kind of like characters, meaning that if they're not the closest model to the unit, they can't be targeted, meaning your opponent has to shoot at the gun.. (T7 again, sweet). Cant argue with the better of 2d6 shots, also. Yes, never felt like I needed to move them ever, so I didn't care.  

-I don't think I'll ever make a DKoK list without some. I typically take 3 sets of 2. 

 

Death Riders:
I used a DR commander, Command Unit, and a single unit of 5. Waited for turn 3 to outflank onto some objectives, and managed to 9" charge onto an enemy HQ. Also some seriously badass looking models, they impress the natives.

-Definitely a staple.

 

Infantry:
2 Lieutenants, 1 commander, 3 command squads (pimped out with melta and plasma), 4 units of 10 inf with flamers. 

I used the 10 man flamer units to bubble wrap my tanks and guns. When they can, charge, or leave them back and let them flame.
Fix bayonets pays out,  The "turns las to pistols" is meh. If it did it for all the guns (flamers, etc) I'd use it.  Most importantly is being able to rally after falling back. Your unit can just dip out, flame, shoot, and another unit can flame, shoot, charge in its place... wash repeat. 
 

Things I want to  use:
I'm going to try out the Hades (because why not)

I need to remember that I have acid bombs with the engineers.
I bought some soviet "anti tank bomb dog" models to proxy as cyclops, and I want to use those for Psy-Ops. 
I want to use that demo charge from the Rider Commander, and see my opponent spit beer. 

 

Things I miss: 

There's less ways to blow up your own guys in this edition, I always find it hilarious to kill a bunch of your own...

Edited July 17, 2017 by Die4Emprah

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Question for you vets... did FW ever make a Death Rider Command Squad? ...and if not, how do you guys distinguish them from normal Death Riders?

[Alcyon]

Six Earthshakers. Wow. I have been imagining guard totally wrong. I love the idea of a static artillery line, fully bubblewrapped, with the enemy breaking across it as they run up the field and Death Riders flanking to seize objectives and clean up the remnants. Very cinematic. Thanks for the report!

[TheTrans]

Question for you vets... did FW ever make a Death Rider Command Squad? ...and if not, how do you guys distinguish them from normal Death Riders?

They did not mate, but they did have rules for them in the original Vraks book as well as the 2nd edition version also (both also had the ability to take standard bearers, which is a little annoying as they can't take them now...).

 

I converted mine up to be a bit different. I game them all sashes (similar to the Krieg Senior Command Squad) as well as the command shoulder pads. I have one with the large standard, one with a vox set and data slate and two 'body guards' with slung las rifles (i realise this isn't strictly WYSIWYG but I figured that the command squad (fluff wise) would generally be sitting on a hill with the Commander, directing the battle, so lasguns would be suitable for keeping any harassing enemies away. 

 

The vox operator will have an aerial sticking out of the vox with a flag on it to 'blend' him in with the other Riders

 

Both Bodyguards will also have lances in a sling thing built into the air tank behind them

 

Hope this helps in some way.

 

Also thoughts on Tank Destroyers gang? 

[Withershadow]

That's nice.  I have done the same conversion with the banner, but the rest will stay with lances.

[Die4Emprah]

Question for you vets... did FW ever make a Death Rider Command Squad? ...and if not, how do you guys distinguish them from normal Death Riders?

 

I was going to paint mine slightly different, so that I can use them as "Fast attack" or as "hq" when needed, and not confuse myself or my opponent.  none of my games are full WYSIWYG anymore. I do like the look of what theTrans is doing though.

 

 

Six Earthshakers. Wow. I have been imagining guard totally wrong. I love the idea of a static artillery line, fully bubblewrapped, with the enemy breaking across it as they run up the field and Death Riders flanking to seize objectives and clean up the remnants. Very cinematic. Thanks for the report!

 

Yeah, having 6 carriage batteries takes up a lot of space, but now that AOE isn't a thing, cramming them into a corner is fine, or spreading them out works also if you want to thin out the bad guys. Regardless, no matter if they've got armor or infantry, they don't want those guns firing because to the enemy - they get quite tiring. 

 

As to the Reinforcements: now that you can bring in reserves pretty much whenever you want to: AVOID THE TEMPTATION of bringing them in turn 1. Yes, things look bleak, yes you're outnumbered. Let it happen. Wait until a decisive moment to bring them in. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Die4Emprah

[major higgins]

Great victory yesterday night against a Homunculus Coven at Kill points.

 

The final Score was 15 - 8

 

He started and got first blood, destroying one of my sentinel and crippling other one with dark lances, than artillery and lascannon open up and started to tear apart his army.

 

By the end of turn five (when we call it due to the late night) I've lost one Stygis Tank Hunter, three scout sentinels, Tempestor Prime and one squad of Scions and conceded first blood.

 

I have destroyed three Venoms with the relative squads, 1 Grottesque squad, 1 Homunculus, 3 Riders, a Talos, 10 Wrecks, 7 Mandragores, and reduced one unit of Wrecks to two models and one unit of Grottesque to a single one model. 

 

Both scored Breakthrough

 

All in all a real fun game, everything in the list worked well, except the pair of Stygis Tank Hunters which managed to put a couple of wound out in all the game...

 

Really I cannot find a good armored support for my list. I tried Conqueors but they lack of punch, I tried Annihilators but are really expensive, now I've tried Tank hunters but again they lack of precisions (ok may be the dice), and D3 shots are randomic....

 

What kind of armor you use in your krieg list? Do you think that better will be to set more Heavy weapons team and skip the armors entirely?

[Withershadow]

Earthshakers got somewhat of a buff, I think.  Now all the guns are one unit, and all the crew another.  On one hand it's a disadvantage, because if they get shot angles at the crew, extra wounds beyond 4 casualties aren't wasted but roll over to the rest of the crew.  On the other hand, it's easy now to place several guns in a way that they are almost always the closer unit.  Also means they have to kill all of the crew to silence the guns, and the crew being one big blob makes them a good target for Orders. FRFSRF means an additional 24 lasgun shots at 24" if you're rocking a full 3 guns in a squad.

 

I may have to get a 3rd earthshaker.

[depthcharge12]

Earthshakers got somewhat of a buff, I think. Now all the guns are one unit, and all the crew another. On one hand it's a disadvantage, because if they get shot angles at the crew, extra wounds beyond 4 casualties aren't wasted but roll over to the rest of the crew. On the other hand, it's easy now to place several guns in a way that they are almost always the closer unit. Also means they have to kill all of the crew to silence the guns, and the crew being one big blob makes them a good target for Orders. FRFSRF means an additional 24 lasgun shots at 24" if you're rocking a full 3 guns in a squad.

 

I may have to get a 3rd earthshaker.

See I just ordered my first Krieg models and Athrawes just sold me on a Minotaur of all things. With tanks being as strong as they are, especially super heavies, you can't go wrong. T8, 22 wounds, and the ability to fire earthshaker cannons at 1" and move out of combat is hilarious XD

 

I'm taking between two detachments:

 

Karis Venner

DKoK death rider commander

DKoK commissar death rider

Death rider command squad

3x10 lasrifles

1x10 engineers (waiting to get Hades for them)

3 autocannon HS dudes

3 Lascannon HS dudes

2 Heavy mortars

Minotaur

Mars alpha LR commander

Executioner alpha

 

Sort of a piecemeal force but it has a bunch of heavy artillery and big guns to support the advance of the gribblies, engineers, and death riders.

[Withershadow]

I've been collecting Krieg models on and off since 5th edition, so I've accrued a pretty ridiculous amount of stuff.  There's over 100 regular infantry dudes, another 20 or so crew for the thudd guns and earthshakers, 12 heavy weapon teams, 40 grenadiers, 30 engineers, and 20 deathriders.  I'm having most of it painted via commission just to deal with all the volume.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Withershadow

[depthcharge12]

I've been collecting Krieg models on and off since 5th edition, so I've accrued a pretty ridiculous amount of stuff. There's over 100 regular infantry dudes, another 20 or so crew for the thudd guns and earthshakers, 12 heavy weapon teams, 40 grenadiers, 30 engineers, and 20 deathriders. I'm having most of it painted via commission just to deal with all the volume.

Being the generous person I am, I will promise to paint your models for you and send you pictures of them as long as I get to keep them :P I just have a bunch of money sunk into 2500 points of both 30k DAs, SoH, and some WS, not to mention a tau force...

 

 

They never told me the 40k stands for how much you'll spend on the hobby :/

[depthcharge12]

Do y'all think that DKoK infantry squads are pretty good at assault...meaning that they can stick around and actually do something? I honestly think with their cc buffs that they can tarpit things that want to kill your artillery and tanks and still threaten them to a degree. Considering you can fire into cc with orders (without mercy), in curious if this is better than doing the order that lets you fight as if itsthe fight phase - 2 lasgun shots at Bs4 or 1 extra attack at WS3+. The damage potential mathwise would be the 2 shots, but averaging dice rolls, you're more likely to get the one attack at WS3+...

 

Oh dear...I've spent too much time on ATT haven't I? :O

 

I'm just glad most options for us are just that, options. There's no one right way to do them!

 

 

Has anyone used death riders to good effect? Do you prefer to run them on the board or outflank them?

[TheTrans]

Mate Death Riders are the ducks nuts!! Played some small scale games the other day.... they smashed the crap out of wyches, Succubi, Chaos Lords, Plague marines and murdered the hell out of swathes of guardsmen.

 

 

They are super resilent against S4 with -AP and nearly untouchable by s3!!

 

All in all we had a 3 way game and a 3v3 game.

 

Game 1 I lost 5 riders to wyches and succubus, but they in turn killed the succubus, 15 wyches and 20 guardsmen.

 

Game 2, I lost 2 to lascannon fire, they then butchered 7 Plague Marines, Chaos Lord and rando wyches and pox walkers. I totally forgot to use orders the whole time also!

[Die4Emprah]

Six Earthshakers. Wow. I have been imagining guard totally wrong. I love the idea of a static artillery line, fully bubblewrapped, with the enemy breaking across it as they run up the field and Death Riders flanking to seize objectives and clean up the remnants. Very cinematic. Thanks for the report!

 

So far the carriage batteries have been my MVP for every game I've played (7th & 8th).  Their wounding rules make them a hard choice for enemies (not wanting to dump fire into a T7 model). My last nights game vs  "Imperial alliance soup" they dished out the most damage for the points, hands down.  I'm considering using more.  I mean, why not? 

 

I should also say, I use alternative models for the DKoK artillery, as they're hard/expensive to find. I found some great howitzer models to paint and mod for use. 

Do y'all think that DKoK infantry squads are pretty good at assault...meaning that they can stick around and actually do something? I honestly think with their cc buffs that they can tarpit things that want to kill your artillery and tanks and still threaten them to a degree. Considering you can fire into cc with orders (without mercy), in curious if this is better than doing the order that lets you fight as if itsthe fight phase - 2 lasgun shots at Bs4 or 1 extra attack at WS3+. The damage potential mathwise would be the 2 shots, but averaging dice rolls, you're more likely to get the one attack at WS3+...

 

Oh dear...I've spent too much time on ATT haven't I?

 

I'm just glad most options for us are just that, options. There's no one right way to do them!

 

 

Has anyone used death riders to good effect? Do you prefer to run them on the board or outflank them?

 

Death Riders are worth their weight in space gold. The demo charge on the DR Commander is a sweet "how do you do" also. It's kind of funny how T4 and 2 wounds makes these things beast, but they really do work. Both times I used them to outflank (1 commander/ command squad, and a 5 man of riders). I tend to bring them into terrain (for that +1 save) or out of sight. 

The bad guys really forget what they're doing when there's five horses wearing gas masks in their back yard.

 

To DKoK in assault? Sure, but you can't piss about. Be prepared to die. I tend to LET them hit me first round and try to survive. (luck, quartermaster). That way I can "fix bayonettes" and hit the stuck in bad guy squad with another unit  (Give them Duty unto death). I also have been trying to keep the Regimental Standard as close to the rumble as possible.  

Put a pin in all that, though.... 

 

So you hit some space marines. They're bad and hard to hurt. You might kill one or two ( likely one). Just fall back.  

Remember those guns? The big f*ckall ones? Yeah. 

Drop best of 2d6 hot ones in their laps, then if any of them are still there, pepper them with lasgun and flamer. 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Die4Emprah

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Hey guys... so the Centaur Light Assault Carrier and the Centaur Light Carrier (now FAQ'd to have <DKOK>)... are the same model with 2 different dataslates? ...the latter (in the current rules) can transport <AM> units and the former can transport <DKOK> with the bonus move for Grenadiers... am I missing something?

 

Why would we even need access to the CLC when we have the CLAC? ...they can both tractor artillery right?

 

Sorry for all the newb questions.

[Mitchverr]

Maybe they plan to return the grenadier assault centaur some day, so having rules for both models?

[The Prince]

Finally got a decent game in with the DKoK post FAQ, although it was against another Guard Force :P

 

My List: 1500pts

Battalion Detachment

Marshal w/Psword, memento mori

X2 Field Officers w/Pswords

X4 Infantry Squads w/vox+ grenade launcher

X2 Infantry Squads w/vox+ flamer

X3 Quad Mortars

Mars Alpha Demolisher

Mars Alpha Vanquisher

Quartermaster w/ servitors

Command Squad w/ melta, plasma, regimental banner, vox

7 Engineers with Mole Launcher

 

Spearhead Detachment

Field Officer w/PSword

X2 Basilisk Carriages

X3 Heavy Weapons w/ Mortars

 

He brought:

Knight Titan

Yarrick

Platoon Commander

Infantry w/melta in chimera

Infantry w/missile launcher

X2 Quad Mortars

Vulture Gunship

Leman Russ w/Battlecannon

Ratling Squad

 

 

Game was a huge loss for me (complete wipeout turn 5) However a huge learning curve.

- Basilisk carriages arent as tanky. I do miss that 3+ save of theirs. Definitely need some decent cover save to stay alive (mine died turn 2 to battlecannons, as the guns had to be hit first).

+ Quad Mortars meanwhile, feel a lot tankier. At 7 wounds apiece they took some serious flak.

+ The Quartermaster is godly. That additional 6+ catch all save is beautiful when youre being constantly peppered with small arms fire. It does rely on luck, but there's some luck in sheer numbers.

+ Engineers with carcass shot is great anti-infantry. But without the ability to reroll 1s its a huge risk.

- Lack of FRFSRF is annoying as sin when youre not really close enough to charge.

+ The Vulture is a horrifying piece of work, pumping out so many anti-infantry shots.

+ 3+ to hit is brilliant,especially when everything can be wounded. The Imperial Knight lost around 6 wounds to a variety of lasgun shots, chainswords and a field officer with a psword. Obviously a bit lucky, but the bonus to hit does catch more than a few units offguard.

 

Also notable thing was I didnt take a single morale check all game. Meanwhile my opponent lost his ratlings and both infantry squads to battleshock.

[Otto von Bludd]

Make sure you bring along that Krieg Regimental banner for your Death Riders. 

[Withershadow]

Not sure how beneficial that is, command squads are very easy to snipe out because unlike space marines, our banner bearers are not characters.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Not sure how beneficial that is, command squads are very easy to snipe out because unlike space marines, our banner bearers are not characters.

 

Actually the sniper cannot choose any model - only any character, so I think it's actually better in that regard. If the target is not a character the owning player still gets to choose who takes the wounds.

 

It also means we don't have to worry about the unit making a charge, and then the character failing the charge and getting left behind... which has happened to me so often with Blood Angels and their buff characters so far in 8th.

[depthcharge12]

What is your experience with battle cannons this edition? Do you guys find them doing work or being way too random? Are there better options?

[Withershadow]

 

Not sure how beneficial that is, command squads are very easy to snipe out because unlike space marines, our banner bearers are not characters.

 

Actually the sniper cannot choose any model - only any character, so I think it's actually better in that regard. If the target is not a character the owning player still gets to choose who takes the wounds.

 

It also means we don't have to worry about the unit making a charge, and then the character failing the charge and getting left behind... which has happened to me so often with Blood Angels and their buff characters so far in 8th.

 

By snipe, I mean target specifically.  A command squad is just a regular unit.  If you can see it, it evaporates, because it's only 4 guardsmen.

 

That is also currently my problem with the Quartermaster.  He is a character, but his stupid servitors are not, so technically they can be targeted with impunity and the wounds would roll over onto the Quartermaster since he's in the unit.

[Tyr13]

Actually... not true. The FAQ says that the character keyword counts for the whole unit (they give the example of a genestealer patriarch and his familiars. Patriarch has character, familiars dont. As long as the patriarch is alive, they all count as characters. Familiars lose the keyword when the patriarch dies though.).

[Withershadow]

Ah, good catch on that.  That makes me feel a lot better about the Quartermaster, especially since my second one was going to be an understrength unit to avoid the servitors.  Still doesn't help the command squad, though.

[micahwc]

edit: wrong post Edited July 23, 2017 by micahwc