Grey Knight 8th

[Blakklist]

Let me start off by saying I am extremely green/new to 40k. My experience consists of about a dozen games last edition and lost them all and so far 3 games this edition and won them all. I have been fielding pure GK's the whole time. So I could be talking out my butt.

 

But, I'm lost as to why people are so negative about GK still. I have notice my DK is not the power house it once was, my GKT are obsolete and becoming Pali's and I will probably never field purifiers because I just don't see what they bring that the other squads don't and I will probably field other HQs besides Libby's. With that said last edition everything was broken except for termies, DK's, draigo's Death Star and libby's. Last edition we had to get first strike or we lost immediately. I think we really came out ahead of most and are very competitive now. My last game I played against a very experienced competitive player. He was fielding a Dark Angels army. Got first strike, I had an interceptor squad gate draigo next to 3 dreadnoughts and I use the teleport chamber to drop in a Pali ancient and two 5 man Pali squads equips with falchions. In that first turn I wiped all 3 dreadnought's. Casted hammerhand on a Pali squad and about 4 Smites, storm bolter's fire raining down from everywhere and 5 attacks for each paladin, and let's not forget draigo and the ancient I wiped all of them and some. After that I teleport chambered in an apothecary the next round and won the game without a single Pali dead.

 

My first game I wanted to try out a crusader filled with 3 purgation squads with psilencers. I was playing orcs. I had an interceptor squad gate the crusader. Killed quite a bit of orcs but didn't really make much of a dent in the horde. Unloaded the purgation squads next turn and wiped over half his army.

 

And my second game I used the stormraven and a venerable dread to extreme effectiveness. That's not to mention that with ancients and using falchions our strike and interceptor squads get 3 attacks each at -2 AP. With the focus of 8th edition clearly being to make vehicles relevant again this is huge for us. We aren't reliant on Psycannons any more for dealing with them.

 

The point I am trying to make is that most models or weapons we didn't play or use to much effect last edition works in this one. I agree the techmarine is broke but let's be real no one really used him last edition either. I also agree we will never be able to field a brigade detachment of GK models with 2k points. So we will always have less models and less command points. I think if they fixed all the GK issues people have then we would be too OP anyway. My favorite part about what 8th did for us is that I am not reliant on a Death Star or DK spam to have a shot at winning. I used to read battle reps and see so many posts and get the same advice in 7th that all said if I wanted to win a game I should field one of those, and even then it's a long shot. So much of our force has relevance again that the lists can be quite difference but just as effective. Just my two cents, by far not a professional but definitely see lots of hope for this army!

Edited June 25, 2017 by Blakklist

[Adeptus]

I am SOOO glad that DK spam is gone. Those models are hideous and the lore is pretty lame, so I'm glad to be able to run an army that is effective without them! I also agree with you that the Grey Knights have done very well out of this edition, but we really won't know how well we stack up until our opponents have all had a good chance to look at their own rules and work out what the winning and losing units are from their Indexes and then stack them against our own.

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

But, I'm lost as to why people are so negative about GK still. I have notice my DK is not the power house it once was, my GKT are obsolete and becoming Pali's and I will probably never field purifiers because I just don't see what they bring that the other squads don't and I will probably field other HQs besides Libby's

 

That's your answer. ;)

 

It's not the 'effectiveness' of the GK, I'm pretty sure we'll do well with Sorm Bolter spam and d3 CC weapon.

 

It's that the year of playtesting and focus on balance that GW touted for 8th simply hasn't materialised for the Grey Knights.

 

Our GKT are obsolete, Paladin outperform them in every aspect.  Same for our PAGK wth Interceptor being head and shoulders the best choice.

 

We've gone from one mono-build (Libbies, GKT and NDK) to really another mono build (Voldus, Paladin, Interceptors and Dreadnoughts).

 

Plus our Special Weapons are lack luster, and we're ham strung in the Psychic Phase, which should be our place to shine.

 

Yeah, we're going to win battles, and I'm gonna have a lot of in with Dreadnought Heavy lists.  And I love the 8th edition ruleset.

 

But I'm not enamoured with the current design of the Grey Knights themselves.  Nor what they can bring that other Imperial models can't.

 

 

On the other hand, Gating a fully loaded LR (to abuse the 1 Gate per round restriction) is pure trollface. ;)

[Blakklist]

 

On the other hand, Gating a fully loaded LR (to abuse the 1 Gate per round restriction) is pure trollface. ;)

 

The look on my opponents face when I gated the LR was priceless. He went through the rules for a solid 20mins to see if there was something that said it wasn't allowed. Last edition he smashed me twice with Eldar so I will admit I might have enjoyed this win a little too much.

[Blakklist]

I am SOOO glad that DK spam is gone. Those models are hideous and the lore is pretty lame, so I'm glad to be able to run an army that is effective without them! I also agree with you that the Grey Knights have done very well out of this edition, but we really won't know how well we stack up until our opponents have all had a good chance to look at their own rules and work out what the winning and losing units are from their Indexes and then stack them against our own.

Yeah I chose GK's for their lore and how awesome the models look. I built 2 DK's and have 2 left in their boxes. Now I'm trying to unload them and going to pick up another dreadnought and stormraven instead since I only have one of them. I am also looking at buying a few razorbacks since I don't have any of them but I am hearing they are quite effective as well.

[Waking Dreamer]

I love the dreadknight models! They have the best-looking melee weapons from "mech" models aside from the recent HH Custodian Dreadnoughts. I liked how our Grey Knights had the only Monstrous Creature models out of all the Imperium! Makes sense we spend the time and resources developing a fighting platform that uses psychically charged greatswords and greathammers - when any daemon incursion of note had a few greater daemons among their ranks.

Personally, I'm definitely keeping them in my lists because I spent a good deal of time painting them up to look great. Not to mention I loved challenging them up against other MC/GMCs back in the day...very cinematic on the table for me - but hey, I loved the movie Pacific Rim, "To fight monsters, we created monsters of our own", and can't wait for the sequel! I'm glad people get to use / spam their dreanoughts now, I guess that would leave my multiple NDK lists a unique sight in the meta then. I just hope they get a little buff in our codex so I'm not too disadvatage in using them (if you have good suggestions for them post it in the GW feedback thread).

Edited June 25, 2017 by Waking Dreamer

[Myunch]

I too am a big fan of our Dreadknights. I am also one of the few that actually loves the look of the model... weird I know lol. While obviously not the auto-includes of 7th they do very well in several situations. I find running them without any shooting weapons keeps them relatively cheap and forces my opponent to make a decision. They are still very strong in cc.

 

Paladins, imo, are the biggest winners of 8th for GK. The 3 wounds, 2+ to hit are just so damn good for infantry. Sadly they do outshine our Terminators in every conceivable way for only 9 points extra per model. I'm not complaining though, as Paladins have been my favorite GK units from a lore perspective.

[Seizeman]

Strike squads are also a lot better. They are cheaper than before (21 instead of 20 but you don't have to pay 10 for the justicar) but shoot twice as much, have free falchions and their new powers are usually better, as you can cast smite every turn for free, while in 7th most times you did not have enough dice to use on them. Also they are usually more durable because of the changes in ap and cover.

The Grand master was unplayable before, and now is almost mandatory. Also, dreadnoughts and vehicles in general are better than before.

[Waking Dreamer]

Paladins are great and they dont need to change, aka get nerfed *cough*like our nerfed dreadknights*cough* in our coming GK codex. I think they do need to up our GKT to Ld 8/9, and keep their points down to 40 ppm. Do you think having 75 points to spare between a 5man GKT and a paladin squad is enough of an incentive? Another advantage in using GKTs is if you're going for those Command Points in the Battalion detachment. They can help fill in the 3 Troops tax, while being more capable than our Strike squads. 

Edited June 25, 2017 by Waking Dreamer

[Valerian]

I too am a big fan of our Dreadknights. I am also one of the few that actually loves the look of the model... weird I know lol. While obviously not the auto-includes of 7th they do very well in several situations. I find running them without any shooting weapons keeps them relatively cheap and forces my opponent to make a decision. They are still very strong in cc.

Yeah, I played a game a few days ago with what I have, and my two Dreadknights did just fine. One destroyed a Battlewagon that was causing me fits (Deffrollas are nasty, and killed 4 out of 5 of my Interceptors on the charge), and he helped finish off a nasty Nob Biker Mob. The other DK had the other Battlewagon locked, and was on its way to destroying that one, too, when we called the game. I was able to successfully make use of GoI on one and teleported him right over to secure an Objective, once he was finished destroying the Wagon.

 

Paladins, imo, are the biggest winners of 8th for GK. The 3 wounds, 2+ to hit are just so damn good for infantry. Sadly they do outshine our Terminators in every conceivable way for only 9 points extra per model. I'm not complaining though, as Paladins have been my favorite GK units from a lore perspective.

The Paladins were definitely the MVPs of the game - they were so, so, good. I've got one Apothecary modeled, but not painted. My first priority is to get a second one modeled up and both painted, so each can escort a separate Paladin squad. I used a Paladin Ancient in the game, but frankly the extra attack wasn't necessary on the Paladins, and I think the Apothecary would have been much more useful. Paladins are already ridiculously resilient, though, and I still had 3 out of 5 remaining in both of my squads by the end of the game.

 

Other takeaways:

 

Being able to spam the nerfed version of Smite is still really powerful. I didn't Perils once, and got off all of my casting attempts but 1, so I had like 12 free mortal wounds to dish out every single Psychic phase, and averaged an additional mortal wound from Voldus' use of Purge Soul each turn.

 

Being able to precision deep strike half your army exactly when and where you want them is really powerful. Being able to do it again later in the game with Interceptor shunts and GoI can be game-changing.

 

Interceptors really need Falchions (I have none modeled that way, unfortunately). With a single attack, they are completely underwhelming in close combat, even against weak basic troops, even when you get the charge.

[Myunch]

I'm not sure 75 points would be enough tbh. 3 wound infantry is so strong. Also, Ii will not even allow the thought of the nerf-stick being swung at our Paladins... noooooo!

 

On the flip side using termies at 75 points less would definitely help with fitting more on the battlefield, especiallly in the Battalion Detachment, Command points are so strong/invaluable if used properly.

[Valerian]

Paladins are great and they dont need to change, aka get nerfed *cough*like our nerfed dreadknights*cough* in our coming GK codex. I think they do need to up our GKT to Ld 8/9, and keep their points down to 40 ppm. Do you think having 75 points to spare between a 5man GKT and a paladin squad is enough of an incentive? Another advantage in using GKTs is if you're going for those Command Points in the Battalion detachment. They can help fill in the 3 Troops tax, while being more capable than our Strike squads.

If you go for a Battalion detachment you start the game with 6 Command Points, but if you combine an Outrider (Interceptors) and Vanguard (Paladins) Detachments, or take double Vanguard, etc., you'll start the game with 5 Command Points. The difference of a single CP isn't enough to override the advantages of taking Paladins over GKTs.

 

V

[Seizeman]

For me the biggest problem in getting extra CP are the HQ. I can't justify picking a second one when it adds so little to the army and are so expensive. If atleast the apotecary was one, it could be a possibility.

[Captain Coolpants]

I suppose that's finally a use for crowe? 125pts gets you access to use a bigger detachment for more cp lol.

 

 

 

 

Edit: just just realised a champ is cheaper

Edited June 25, 2017 by Captain Coolpants

[Valerian]

I suppose that's finally a use for crowe? 125pts gets you access to use a bigger detachment for more cp lol.

 

 

 

 

Edit: just just realised a champ is cheaper

 

Yeah, I'm going with the Champion for 115 points.  It's not a complete waste.  

[Zamtro]

 

I suppose that's finally a use for crowe? 125pts gets you access to use a bigger detachment for more cp lol.

 

 

 

 

Edit: just just realised a champ is cheaper

 

Yeah, I'm going with the Champion for 115 points.  It's not a complete waste.  

 

Could always take an Inquisitor, he can roll in Grey Knight vehicles, fits the theme and if you want to leave him bare bones is a HQ for just 55 points! And a psyker to boot :) Spend an extra couple points if you want him to be a bit shooty :) he is only 4+ with no invul, but you can sit him behind some other units and take advantage of his LD too!

[Valerian]

I've got a painted Coteaz model, so could use him, but figure I'd rather take the in-house Champion.  Think I can make him work for me.  Unless I'm really short on points and need to go for the super-budget 55 point Inquisitor.

[jeffersonian000]

I'm still picturing 15 Purgators in a Crusader with max Psilencers.

 

Day-yam.

 

SJ

[Blakklist]

I'm still picturing 15 Purgators in a Crusader with max Psilencers.

 

Day-yam.

 

SJ

I had a blast that game. I never used the purgation squad before nor the psilencers. I got the idea from a lad I played in 7th edition where he had 4 devastator centurions and Lysander drop out the back of a crusader and wreck everything I had on the board. I think I will be using this on horde armies a lot. Not sure what this will look like for competitive play but I feel that 634 pts in these 4 units was well spent. The number of shots was insane.

[jeffersonian000]

 

I'm still picturing 15 Purgators in a Crusader with max Psilencers.

 

Day-yam.

 

SJ

I had a blast that game. I never used the purgation squad before nor the psilencers. I got the idea from a lad I played in 7th edition where he had 4 devastator centurions and Lysander drop out the back of a crusader and wreck everything I had on the board. I think I will be using this on horde armies a lot. Not sure what this will look like for competitive play but I feel that 634 pts in these 4 units was well spent. The number of shots was insane.

I use to run 16 Battle Sisters in a Crusader back in 4th, all that Rapid Fire was glorious! Felt like an Ork player rolling cubes of dice.

 

SJ

[Zamtro]

 

 

I'm still picturing 15 Purgators in a Crusader with max Psilencers.

 

Day-yam.

 

SJ

I had a blast that game. I never used the purgation squad before nor the psilencers. I got the idea from a lad I played in 7th edition where he had 4 devastator centurions and Lysander drop out the back of a crusader and wreck everything I had on the board. I think I will be using this on horde armies a lot. Not sure what this will look like for competitive play but I feel that 634 pts in these 4 units was well spent. The number of shots was insane.

I use to run 16 Battle Sisters in a Crusader back in 4th, all that Rapid Fire was glorious! Felt like an Ork player rolling cubes of dice.

 

SJ

 

Now you've got me excited at the concept of Gating a LRC with a Grandmaster and 2x 7 man strike squads into enemy lines for 60 storm bolter shots re-rolling 1's! And I have the models for it

[Reclusiarch Darius]

If you really wanna drop buckets of dice on people, take a Raven with twin assault cannons and hurricane bolter sponsons. Disgusting amount of mobile firepower, plus it can transport a squad and a Dreadnought into enemy lines Turn 1. Good for getting around the 'half Reserves' issue. 

 

And yeah, the alpha strike with Grandmaster+multiple Strikes is brutal. Storm bolters are fantastic this edition. 

[Happy-inquisitor]

 

But, I'm lost as to why people are so negative about GK still. I have notice my DK is not the power house it once was, my GKT are obsolete and becoming Pali's and I will probably never field purifiers because I just don't see what they bring that the other squads don't and I will probably field other HQs besides Libby's

 

That's your answer.

 

It's not the 'effectiveness' of the GK, I'm pretty sure we'll do well with Sorm Bolter spam and d3 CC weapon.

 

It's that the year of playtesting and focus on balance that GW touted for 8th simply hasn't materialised for the Grey Knights.

 

Our GKT are obsolete, Paladin outperform them in every aspect.  Same for our PAGK wth Interceptor being head and shoulders the best choice.

 

We've gone from one mono-build (Libbies, GKT and NDK) to really another mono build (Voldus, Paladin, Interceptors and Dreadnoughts).

 

Plus our Special Weapons are lack luster, and we're ham strung in the Psychic Phase, which should be our place to shine.

 

Yeah, we're going to win battles, and I'm gonna have a lot of in with Dreadnought Heavy lists.  And I love the 8th edition ruleset.

 

But I'm not enamoured with the current design of the Grey Knights themselves.  Nor what they can bring that other Imperial models can't.

 

 

On the other hand, Gating a fully loaded LR (to abuse the 1 Gate per round restriction) is pure trollface.

 

 

I think it is way too early for anyone to think they have found the mono-build of any faction for 8th. Ultimately in any static meta a mono-build will emerge that is considered the strongest for most of the factions - only the really extensive factions like SM have so much variety that multiple "best" builds are ever likely in a stable or static meta. What I do not expect to happen is for the meta to become static for at least a year due to things settling down with the new rules and then a steady trickle of releases to keep things changing. Then with revised points on a roughly annual basis there will be further shake-ups to prevent the meta calcifying too much.

 

Troops are a bit lacklustre in all the factions I have looked at so far, the balance is supposed to be that they open up the ability to get more CP but until we get codex releases with more strategems I am not sure the extra one or two CP are worth it in a lot of cases. Of course other players think CP are pure gold dust and disagree, that is part of why nobody really knows what the best build for any faction is yet ;)

 

The rule of one is a hurdle for now. If AOS is anything to go by we may be waiting for a year or so until we get relief on that - probably in the form of some release giving a better spread of powers rather than a review of the core rule of one. I actually think it is necessary and justified for matched play, it is just going to feel a bit limiting by comparison with narrative games where our GK can let loose with all the crazy stuff.

[the jeske]

Troops are a bit lacklustre in all the factions I have looked at so far, the balance is supposed to be that they open up the ability to get more CP but until we get codex releases with more strategems I am not sure the extra one or two CP are worth it in a lot of cases. Of course other players think CP are pure gold dust and disagree, that is part of why nobody really knows what the best build for any faction is yet

 

 

orcs, guants, stealers, IG dudes, conscripts are great. necron warriors and imortals are ok too. Even the humble sobs can be valid, maybe just not in a pure SoB army.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I think GK Strikes are pretty good Troops. For 105 points with full falchions, they're excellent value. Teleport Strike in Turn 1, Smite, follow up with storm bolter, then a charge if you're lucky (or re-roll one of the dice with a Strategem).