Ferrus Manus: Gorgon of Medusa

[Fedor]

Well, going back to that, i worry Guymer buried the 30k Hands and Ferrus character with this book. Especially after re-reading the Gardinaal lore recently, i just wonder why he went about the changes to it the way he did. The lore is a straight forward showcase of the strength of the Iron Hands and Ferrus approach and the merit of it within the context of great crusade, so i can see the interest in messing things up a bit to make it a bit more interesting, tell a wider story of strengths and flaws....but did he really have to go so far as to have the guy just go ":cuss it" halfway through, destroy almost the whole planet then act so stupidly as to get his entire task force and himself wiped out by the remnants left were it not for the foresight of the EC character?.

 

It's like he was working from a brief to make sure we all get it loud and clear Ferrus really is just a brute that can't help but rush in...make the internet tongue in cheek/troll side of the istvaan lore the reality. We already have Angron for a much better(and actually lore accurate) depiction of a primarch brought down to that level of generalship. Manus in the lore we already had of him was meant to be a brutal, yet calculating and intelligent field commander that kept his "medusan fury" under a tight controlled leash, someone that while not as versatile in compliance approach as Horus, Guilliman or Fulgrim, was far from an Angron or Curze sort of specialist either. His bellicose nature was only supposed to have got the better of him to the extent of compromising things after the Fulgrim betrayal.

 

 

Imagine approaching something like the classic Sanguinius defending eternity gate lore the way Guymer approached Gardinaal. Instead of altering a few things here and there to make it more battlefield plausible and less mythical, he'd have him pay for his hubris in thinking he could hold back the traitor hordes almost alone by getting mercilessly bracketed by titan/tank fire and needing to be saved by the Khan on a jetbike within 10-15 minutes.

 

A shame, as his approach to 40k Iron Hands seems very interesting from some of the posts i've read.

[Indefragable]

Well, going back to that, i worry Guymer buried the 30k Hands and Ferrus character with this book. Especially after re-reading the Gardinaal lore recently, i just wonder why he went about the changes to it the way he did. The lore is a straight forward showcase of the strength of the Iron Hands and Ferrus approach and the merit of it within the context of great crusade, so i can see the interest in messing things up a bit to make it a bit more interesting, tell a wider story of strengths and flaws....but did he really have to go so far as to have the guy just go ":cuss it" halfway through, destroy almost the whole planet then act so stupidly as to get his entire task force and himself wiped out by the remnants left were it not for the foresight of the EC character?.

 

It's like he was working from a brief to make sure we all get it loud and clear Ferrus really is just a brute that can't help but rush in...make the internet tongue in cheek/troll side of the istvaan lore the reality. We already have Angron for a much better(and actually lore accurate) depiction of a primarch brought down to that level of generalship. Manus in the lore we already had of him was meant to be a brutal, yet calculating and intelligent field commander that kept his "medusan fury" under a tight controlled leash, someone that while not as versatile in compliance approach as Horus, Guilliman or Fulgrim, was far from an Angron or Curze sort of specialist either. His bellicose nature was only supposed to have got the better of him to the extent of compromising things after the Fulgrim betrayal.

 

 

Imagine approaching something like the classic Sanguinius defending eternity gate lore the way Guymer approached Gardinaal. Instead of altering a few things here and there to make it more battlefield plausible and less mythical, he'd have him pay for his hubris in thinking he could hold back the traitor hordes almost alone by getting mercilessly bracketed by titan/tank fire and needing to be saved by the Khan on a jetbike within 10-15 minutes.

 

A shame, as his approach to 40k Iron Hands seems very interesting from some of the posts i've read.

 

Here here.

 

Yea, it's almost like GW has an apologist tone towards Ferrus' early Heresy death. "Look guys, it's ok he died first because he was kind of a brute and not that smart anyways."

 

...which, if so, as perhaps demonstrated by this Primarchs outing, is the exact opposite of what I hoped they'd do. I hoped Ferrus would be shown to be a top 5 commander or so, an absolutely indispensable asset to the Crusade as a whole, and a grievous blow to the Imperium that was probably a major factor leading to Horus' ability to reach Terra at all. But it's unfair to go into a novel with those expectations when the author apparently had very different ideas in mind. <shrug>.

 

This one is still way better than the Roboute Guilliman primarchs novel.

[Fedor]

Yeah i wouldn't have any issues if the character had always been portrayed as a notably less astute primarch, or one who was a lot less martial like Great Crusade era Lorgar. That kind of thing could have been a potential starting point to lead into the 40k Iron hands hatred of weakness, the flesh etc

 

But the old index astartes, Collected Vision Gorgon and the Pheonix, Fulgrim Novel + the various other HH mentions of Ferrus like Guilliman's dauntless few and especially subsequent Forgeworld lore all went in a different direction, one of him being a highly respected, senior primarch that could actually back up his and his legion's attitude. Which is imo a better, more tragic starting point for istvaan and the Hands subsequently going down a dark path when their cult of personality is shattered than them being salty about having a primarch that could never really cut it.

 

This book just seems an odd step away from that, and more a subtle dismissal/critique of certain traits in the primarch and Legion, especially with the idea of this being his claim to Warmaster added in out of nowhere for it, despite it being about a half century before Ullanor. Read in that context, i don't think it's a bad book at all, just not what i expected or wanted to see for the Tenth who are hardly a legion that could have been accused of getting overly favourable treatment from GW.

 

I think it's an approach that would have worked better for the Ultramarines/Guilliman who have had far more showings of them doing their usual thing with great success(albeit more so in 40k). Not in the sense of making them less competent, but maybe a story looking a troubled compliance that merited or otherwise brought out a darker, less civilized side we aren't often shown. Something along those lines. I think Annandale hinted at the struggles between Guilliman's idealism and the realities of the more brutal side of the crusade, but didn't take it far enough. That kind of thing during a compliance of a human empire, instead of a battle with orks taking up so much space would have been very interesting.

[bluntblade]

The worst thing about that is that it overturns how Gardinaal was portrayed by Bligh and French (or whichever one of them penned it). The take in Massacre was very much "OK, he wasn't subtle, but there's a very good reason he was in charge of what was meant to be seven Legions at Isstvan and why Horus wanted him on side".

 

I'm actually quite hoping that the Horus novel involves the Castigation of Terentius, so we can see the Iron Hands played as competent in a full novel.

[Bulwyf]

I hated how they showed Manus in this novel. It went from being "Those arrogant pups, I'm an elder primarch, Big E should make me Warmaster and I'll prove it by winning this war before Bobby G shows up" as to what Manus was thinking to "Naw, the hell with this crap, let's just literally obliterate the planet with all of its priceless archeotech because I got pissed they tried to assassinate me."

 

And even then the EC swordsman guy was the only reason Manus pulled it off at the end. I mean...wow. Manus went from being one of the most respected primarchs out of all them from literally every other depiction to being boiled down to, frankly speaking. an outright bully that threw temper tantrums when he couldn't get his way.

 

If I can use a Simpsons reference from Nelson the bully in a classic episode...after the attempted assassination I fully expected him to dab at his nose and go...

 

https://youtu.be/b-JQD15xtL0

 

 

That's what we get in this novel. A childish, petulant bully that couldn't stand someone else getting what he felt he was owed. There's no notes of any of the rough sense of honor fellow we've seen in every other depiction of him.

 

 

[mc warhammer]

all this hate makes me want to read it more

[Mellow]

I never respected Ferrus Manus. He’s never been shown to be good at anything in particular (other than being angry) and if you want angry then Angron is the one for you. He’s way better at it! (because he wins).

 

A terrible Legion with a terrible Primarch who collectively are terrible at performing the one act they were designed for (conquest) and also the assassination attempt was terrible as well. He literally nearly loses and that is awful ... almost as awful as Corax being tripped up and nearly being finished off by Astartes v2.0

[Orwell84]

I never respected Ferrus Manus. He’s never been shown to be good at anything in particular (other than being angry) and if you want angry then Angron is the one for you. He’s way better at it! (because he wins).

 

A terrible Legion with a terrible Primarch who collectively are terrible at performing the one act they were designed for (conquest) and also the assassination attempt was terrible as well. He literally nearly loses and that is awful ... almost as awful as Corax being tripped up and nearly being finished off by Astartes v2.0

 

+1

 

Ferrus Manus IMHO is one of the best, or worst, examples of Black Library and Forge World telling one thing and actually showing another.

 

In FW sources Manus is shown as a rough warlord lacking the polish of Horus or Roboute but a competent general nonetheless - enough that he was entrusted with one of the three major fronts of the early Crusade and later with overall command of the Isstvan Retribution Force. Two more examples from BL: Guilliman (no mean tactician himself) ranked Ferrus over most of his brothers, and it seems even Horus would have gladly traded Curze, Angron and possibly Alpharius and Lorgar if he could have Ferrus at his side instead.

 

But when BL actually shows us Ferrus in action, he nearly always comes across as a wrathful blunderer who should be used as a (trans)human battering ram, not as a general. Perhaps his real forging skills lay in spin-doctoring and the Forge World account of Gardinaal is just the official version produced afterwards.

[DarkChaplain]

I mean, ALL FW Black Book accounts are written from an in-universe perspective, with one notable author being one of Malcador's inner circle. They are, in many ways, propaganda.

[bluntblade]

But at the same time, that doesn't serve Ferrus'character at all, or that of any of the brothers who respected him (Horus, if Ferrus were an idiot, shouldn't have had Fulgrim put so much effort into trying to persuade him).

 

The Iron Hands have definitely come off ultimately worse, in my view, for Black Library's efforts, rammed home with the parallels at the end of their arc which damn them as never really learning from setbacks. If only the authors who did such excellent work with them in the Shattered Legion shorts and Meduson novella had got a chance to set things straight.

[Orwell84]

But at the same time, that doesn't serve Ferrus'character at all, or that of any of the brothers who respected him (Horus, if Ferrus were an idiot, shouldn't have had Fulgrim put so much effort into trying to persuade him).

 

The Iron Hands have definitely come off ultimately worse, in my view, for Black Library's efforts, rammed home with the parallels at the end of their arc which damn them as never really learning from setbacks. If only the authors who did such excellent work with them in the Shattered Legion shorts and Meduson novella had got a chance to set things straight.

 

I fear that train has passed its last stop and is now disappearing into the sunset. Good ol' Iron Hands and the Iron Hands Legion have both been fixed as more rep than substance. All we need now is for somebody to have Horus imitate Perseus and try freezing people with the mere gaze of the Gorgon's head.

 

As an aside, does anybody else find it odd that such a hulk of manliness bears the name given to a female monster? In-universe it could be rationalised as another humorous mistake, like when somebody waxed exultant over finally compiling Shakespire's complete works ('all three of them' ). Out of universe, from a reader's standpoint, it always seemed slightly jarring to me.

[bluntblade]

Never bothered me, really. Now you mention that, my first thought is that Medusan hardness is undoubtedly shared across the gender divide.

[b1soul]

@ Orwell84

 

Agreed....except I'd say in FW, Ferrus is more than competent. He's supposed to be excellent. Good enough to Warmaster if he weren't so brusque

[DarKnight]

This book frustrated me so much because I was looking forward to that portrayal of Ferrus, and any of the primarchs for that matter, as true generals and planners and strategists (at least the saner ones). The notable battles stories in the FW black books are awesome at displaying each Primarch's particular predilections for warfare without being generic or cliche. I'm a military history aficionado so that part is of great importance to me and how each legion culture shapes their outlook on conducting compliances, but from either inability, insufficient available word count, or it not being a priority, not many of the Primarch novels or the Horus Heresy books themselves have done a good job of this. We constantly are told Horus is the greatest of his brothers, but we never really get to witness him set up a battle zone to prepare it for one of his patented speartip attacks, much less a Corax or Vulkan. (Jump packs and flamers yay *yawn*)

[bluntblade]

And so brutally unappreciative of lesser men. He was a hard :cuss, no doubt about it, but too little was done to demonstrate why he was so important to both sides.

[Hit0k1ri]

Recently re-read "The Gorgon" on a fresh head ... Perhaps I was wrong about David's book ... Rather, I expected something completely different after the statement of Ferrus that he will show everyone how good he is, so all this disappointment ... Guymer managed to show in this novel the character of X Legio, the differences between Storm Walkers and the natives of Medusa, Unification Wars veteran vs new-types  as well as the "Achilles' heel" of their primarch and those of his specific features, which led to a catastrophic rout on Istvan. 

[Marshal Rohr]

When in doubt, defer to the black book account.

[DarKnight]

When in doubt, defer to the black book account.

Has the fluff in those been collected anywhere yet?

[Orwell84]

 

When in doubt, defer to the black book account.

Has the fluff in those been collected anywhere yet?

 

 

I went looking for that a while ago. Unfortunately, FW has only collected the rules into ebook format - the fluff is still only in the printed black books.

 

Lexicanum does have most of this material distilled, including the battle in this book, so you can read the essentials.

[bluntblade]

When you look at it, Gaardinaal is really a less than stellar choice for a story. FW correctly had Ferrus smashing tanks and taking cities, but BL could only really make that compelling by adding bits where he nearly loses.

 

Better to have him go up against an enemy which is inherently more threatening, and through that we can dig deeper and see what the Iron Tenth are really made of. Or Ferrus having to make two disparate forces (Alpha Legion and Dark Angels, maybe?) function together.

 

Conversely, the scenario for Corvus's novel has that factor built in already, and is therefore a better fit.

[mc warhammer]

. Or Ferrus having to make two disparate forces (Alpha Legion and Dark Angels, maybe?) function together.

 

 

that's interesting

[bluntblade]

The Iron Hands and DA are noted as being about the only non-SoH forces which the Alphas managed to work with amicably.

 

Also having Vulkan in the mix could be good, and help highlight that indeed, the Salamanders are quite capable of being Angels of Death when necessary.

[Brother Lunkhead]

Just finished this novel and my reaction was huh ……. I have to consider this a aberration and move on. This novel gives us as much insight on Ferrus Manus as Roboutte Guilliman: Lord of Ultramar did for Big Bobby G.  If anyone doubts the importants of Ferrus Manus, and why his death was so important to Horus and his loss was a tragedy to the Imperium check out the sections of the HH novel Fulgrum dealing with Ferrus and the reference to him in the audiodrama Grey Talon. Ferrus was an astute tactician, thoughtful leader, and loyal to the core.

[DarkChaplain]

If the novel gives as much insight into Ferrus as the Guilliman novel did into Roboute, then I'll be pleasantly surprised and happy with it, considering I seem to have taken away more about Guilliman as a character and person than the majority of folks here (as detailed elsewhere). I really should put this higher up the list, now that Slaves to Darkness is done and dealt with..

[nagashnee]

If the novel gives as much insight into Ferrus as the Guilliman novel did into Roboute, then I'll be pleasantly surprised and happy with it, considering I seem to have taken away more about Guilliman as a character and person than the majority of folks here (as detailed elsewhere). I really should put this higher up the list, now that Slaves to Darkness is done and dealt with..

Yeah but what about the rest of us  .