Why Recent Noblebright Lore Additions are Good for 40k

[Jackalwolf]

I mean, sure to all, fair points and so on but... don't you have half the imperium more Grimdark than ever and another half of the imperium with a faint glimmer of hope?

[Marshal Rohr]

I mean, sure to all, fair points and so on but... don't you have half the imperium more Grimdark than ever and another half of the imperium with a faint glimmer of hope?

This is where the studio needs to tread carefully. If the grimdark Imperium is treated as a throw away and meaningless, it invalidates the seperate but equal intent of the division.

[Bryan Blaire]

There have been glimmers of hope in the setting before...

 

They are usually mercilessly quashed, but they've been there.

 

Honestly, as has been said before, the setting really isn't a lot different, if anything it has gotten worse, not better. The studio can play up this "Guilliman and the Primaris are a bright ray of hope to the galaxy" all they want, it doesn't change that much. The situation still seems to be less than one Marine per world in the Imperium, the operation of the Administratum is still as borked as it ever could be, and while it may be "cut in half", there are passages through the Great Rift and life may be crappy on the other side, chances are the folks there don't know any better because it was already pretty crappy. There probably wasn't a lot of food goods, etc., moving that way anyway, because it's too far. Maybe the locales in the "Dark Imperium" have to set up another green jello paste factory or two to help with food shortages that used to come from off world, but there wasn't a known unified galactic government that personally impacted the lives of its citizens directly every day anyway, so it's very likely that a third of the entire Imperium doesn't even realize something has happened, and that could be low-balling it.

 

For every world directly touched by Guilliman and his changes, or even a system of planets indirectly impacted by them, there are probably five+ times as many worlds that haven't been impacted in the slightest. The same probably holds true for the Great Rift. About the only thing people may have noticed might be the tax man might be coming around less or undesirable spacers just don't leave as much like they used to. They may even be impacted i a relatively major way and have no comprehension about what's going on.

 

After all, the universe is a big place and you will not be missed, and that would apply to Primarchs/Aeldari death cult abominations as well. Sure, some people at the top might notice, but the Imperium at large - unlikely.

[Walter Payton]

I've only skimmed over the background in the 8th edition book, but all that seems to have changed is that the Time of Ending is downplayed.  The Imperium is still, Guilliman or no, grim and awful.  The closest to noblebright we get is "as long as the Emperor still lives, there remains one small ray of hope".  Which is a poetic way of saying what we already knew.  It's also specifically noted that the Rift means no more shield worlds or fortresses - now everywhere might get attacked by a bunch of gribbly Chaos worshippers at a moment's notice.

 

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Something that I do find interesting is that the new lore additions have been mostly positively received on the Reddit 40k communities, whilst the general tone here seems to be negative.  I wonder why this is.

[Claws and Effect]

Reddit users tend toward the younger end of the spectrum and don't have decades of playing in a setting that coined the term grimdark.

 

That's my guess anyway.

[Frater Cornelius]

Hm, looks like the GW thought detection van has driven past my house, because the reason 40k was turning me off was too much Grimderp, being a major source of complaints from me for better than a year or so. Grim darkness is only effective if juxtaposed with light. Without it, you can not see the contrast. This is refreshing and I share the sentiment of OP :)

 

Yes, sue me :P

[Gorthaur]

I've only skimmed over the background in the 8th edition book, but all that seems to have changed is that the Time of Ending is downplayed.  The Imperium is still, Guilliman or no, grim and awful.  The closest to noblebright we get is "as long as the Emperor still lives, there remains one small ray of hope".  Which is a poetic way of saying what we already knew.  It's also specifically noted that the Rift means no more shield worlds or fortresses - now everywhere might get attacked by a bunch of gribbly Chaos worshippers at a moment's notice.

 

--------

 

Something that I do find interesting is that the new lore additions have been mostly positively received on the Reddit 40k communities, whilst the general tone here seems to be negative.  I wonder why this is.

One of the reasons they split the galaxy with a rift is to make chaos a more present threat. Previously they were isolated to the eye of terror doing raids and black crusades that failed often/or always. I think GW wanted to make chaos a serious danger to everyone again. So the imperium is in a sense in greater danger than ever, but they also regained an old hero and have started innovating technology. So I wouldn't say the imperium is in any better or worse shape...but the galaxy is different now and if they fail it will happen even faster now that the warp can reach across the galaxy.

[the jeske]

yeah, but chaos is kind of a busy with their all out civil war right now. I can't wait to see the fluff what abadon and his armies were doing the last 120+years.

[Walter Payton]

 

I've only skimmed over the background in the 8th edition book, but all that seems to have changed is that the Time of Ending is downplayed.  The Imperium is still, Guilliman or no, grim and awful.  The closest to noblebright we get is "as long as the Emperor still lives, there remains one small ray of hope".  Which is a poetic way of saying what we already knew.  It's also specifically noted that the Rift means no more shield worlds or fortresses - now everywhere might get attacked by a bunch of gribbly Chaos worshippers at a moment's notice.

 

--------

 

Something that I do find interesting is that the new lore additions have been mostly positively received on the Reddit 40k communities, whilst the general tone here seems to be negative.  I wonder why this is.

One of the reasons they split the galaxy with a rift is to make chaos a more present threat. Previously they were isolated to the eye of terror doing raids and black crusades that failed often/or always. I think GW wanted to make chaos a serious danger to everyone again. So the imperium is in a sense in greater danger than ever, but they also regained an old hero and have started innovating technology. So I wouldn't say the imperium is in any better or worse shape...but the galaxy is different now and if they fail it will happen even faster now that the warp can reach across the galaxy.

 

 

This actually makes a lot of sense, and seems like quite a useful addition to the setting.  Although we did already have the Maelstrom.

 

 

Reddit users tend toward the younger end of the spectrum and don't have decades of playing in a setting that coined the term grimdark.

 

That's my guess anyway.

 

That's my theory too, but Reddit's youth doesn't necessarily invalidate their perspective.

[Trevak Dal]

Noblebright? The galaxy has been torn asunder, thousands of worlds lost in warpstorms more severe than what happened in Old Night, trillions of lives lost.

 

And Gmoney is outnumbered, there are a lot more active traitor daemon primarchs than loyalist primarchs. And they can respawn.

 

Add to that, that during The Black, the Astronomicon blinked off. Anybody in the warp using it died.

 

Thousands of newly emerged space hulks with ship wreckage older than humanity emerged all at once. It seems like a real :cuss show going on there.

[Adeptus]

What I desperately want is for there to be a critical flaw in the new Primaris marines, and for them to have an "Order 66" moment where they are all corrupted by the Ruinous powers, mimicking the Heresy that Guillaman was trying so hard to defeat, turning his glorious comeback into tragedy and returning the Astartes to their rightful place at the front line of defence against the Imperium's enemies, instead of being relegated to second hand heroes by these new, bigger, stronger, tougher super marines.

[Trevak Dal]

Eh I'll get behind buying Primaris Marines when they have multipart kits in 10 man squads. And proper jump pack marines.

[Doghouse]

What I desperately want is for there to be a critical flaw in the new Primaris marines, and for them to have an "Order 66" moment where they are all corrupted by the Ruinous powers, mimicking the Heresy that Guillaman was trying so hard to defeat, turning his glorious comeback into tragedy and returning the Astartes to their rightful place at the front line of defence against the Imperium's enemies, instead of being relegated to second hand heroes by these new, bigger, stronger, tougher super marines.

 

With mine I am taking the approach that the chapter they are reinforcing was on the brink of destruction but the original Astartes had accepted this fate and were hell bent on going out in a blaze of glory. Suddenly their Chapter is at full strength and the original guys are resentful of the fact they are handing their history and future over to these news guys that are basically members of the chapter in uniform and name only. It kind of mirrors my thoughts on Primaris in general but I might as well channel that feeling into something positive.

 

Seeing some turn to chaos might be interesting but I can't help but see these guys being painted in the noble hero light right now, a lot could happen in the 100 years that has passed where some could turn to chaos so I wouldn't rule that out. I'm not sure if I just want to see them fail because part of me is still bitter though. :D

[Closet Skeleton]

Noblebright? The galaxy has been torn asunder, thousands of worlds lost in warpstorms more severe than what happened in Old Night, trillions of lives lost.

 

Grimdark = the status quo.

 

Any change = the end of grimdark.

 

That seems to be how some people think. There's a lot of individual taste going on underneath that but the trend is there. The fact that grimdark is kind of supposed to be a aesthetic of totality probably bares a lot of the blame. Its all advertising/marketing hype of course when the basic message is that 40k is supposed to be 'the MOST extreme and MOST hardcore dystopian setting" then since you can't be MORE than MOST (even though the MOST is just marketing hype) then any change must be going backwards from what the marketing originally promised.

 

The amount of people who just ignore what's actually been said about Guiliman's reign and just assume that he's thrown around massive reforms or bound the entire Imperium to his vision seems to be quite high.

[Commander Dawnstar]

I think it's more a matter of GW's presentation. The galaxy is in a far worse state than before, but so much of the focus goes onto hope spots and the radical changes that have been brought about by Guilliman and Cawl in the last century or so that it ends up feeling like that is the heart of the setting rather than the big picture beyond it.

 

Sometimes it can be hard to see the darkness for the light, if you will, even if we're only staring into the last flickering flame in an endless night.

[Adeptus]

I just don't like being told that the Astartes that we've all known and loved for so long are now only the second best warriors the Imperium can muster. It'd be like DC comics introducing a new Batman who was bigger and stronger and faster than Bruce Wayne, and just better in every way. It feels kinda lame, and the only way I can see such a Mary Sue addition to the lore actually becoming interesting is if they suffer a catastrophic systemic failure, forcing the Imperium to come crawling back to the original Astartes and forcing them to fight against these newer, bigger, stronger and better in in every way Super Marines.

 

Just having them being Marines +1 is boring, and devalues the current crop of Astartes.

[deathspectersgt7]

I just don't like being told that the Astartes that we've all known and loved for so long are now only the second best warriors the Imperium can muster. It'd be like DC comics introducing a new Batman who was bigger and stronger and faster than Bruce Wayne, and just better in every way. It feels kinda lame, and the only way I can see such a Mary Sue addition to the lore actually becoming interesting is if they suffer a catastrophic systemic failure, forcing the Imperium to come crawling back to the original Astartes and forcing them to fight against these newer, bigger, stronger and better in in every way Super Marines.

 

Just having them being Marines +1 is boring, and devalues the current crop of Astartes.

Ran out of  likes.

[DogWelder]

I just don't like being told that the Astartes that we've all known and loved for so long are now only the second best warriors the Imperium can muster. It'd be like DC comics introducing a new Batman who was bigger and stronger and faster than Bruce Wayne, and just better in every way. It feels kinda lame, and the only way I can see such a Mary Sue addition to the lore actually becoming interesting is if they suffer a catastrophic systemic failure, forcing the Imperium to come crawling back to the original Astartes and forcing them to fight against these newer, bigger, stronger and better in in every way Super Marines.

 

Just having them being Marines +1 is boring, and devalues the current crop of Astartes.

 

Can't original marines undergo a procedure to turn them into new marines tho? I heard Cato Sicarius was turned into a Primaris Marine already

[Guest Triszin]

What I desperately want is for there to be a critical flaw in the new Primaris marines, and for them to have an "Order 66" moment where they are all corrupted by the Ruinous powers, mimicking the Heresy that Guillaman was trying so hard to defeat, turning his glorious comeback into tragedy and returning the Astartes to their rightful place at the front line of defence against the Imperium's enemies, instead of being relegated to second hand heroes by these new, bigger, stronger, tougher super marines.

 

 

 

What I desperately want is for there to be a critical flaw in the new Primaris marines

 

With mine I am taking the approach that the chapter they are reinforcing was on the brink of destruction but the original Astartes had accepted this fate and were hell bent on going out in a blaze of glory. Suddenly their Chapter is at full strength and the original guys are resentful of the fact they are handing their history and future over to these news guys that are basically members of the chapter in uniform and name only. It kind of mirrors my thoughts on Primaris in general but I might as well channel that feeling into something

 

I've been thinking that the flaw might be the original flaws but multiplied by 10.

Templars/fist Zeal x10, maybe their very zeal now manifests as warp energy, similar to acts of faith.

Primaris Wulfen: huge monstrous things that rampage, Primaris black rage: they beleive they are sanguinious and manifest a similar appearance to sangunious.

 

and so on

[civsmitty]

My problem with the fluff is it confirmed the worst thoughts I've ever had about the GW fluff team: that the Ultras, and only Ultras, should be the army you take. Guilliman finally gets his empire, and masquerades under the pretense of being a steward, instead of the de facto Emperor he is. 

 

I freely admit I loathe the Primaris Marines because of Cawl and Guilliman's "improving the Emperor's designs." This could have had the same result (bigger marines) with less foolishness by having the Emperor psychically upload (or have Cawl unearth) Corax's work into creating Astartes to Guilliman. You could even still include Cawl in the setting this way! 

 

Mainly, I think I hate the fact that it doesn't "feel" like Chaos or the various Xenos races are a real threat. The Imperium is torn asunder by a warp rift and it's treated like a speed bump. The three "gathering storm" books focused on HOW AWESOME the Imperium is when it loses, instead of the Chaos victory. The Indomitus Crusade ends with a "Triumph at Ullanor" moment, with Guilliman acting as Horus & the Emperor. There's simply no credible threat. 

 

And it's kinda boring.

[Master Commander Ajax]

To me, it feels like they are taking too many elements from 30k and shoehorning them into the 41st millennium. 

[DogWelder]

My problem with the fluff is it confirmed the worst thoughts I've ever had about the GW fluff team: that the Ultras, and only Ultras, should be the army you take. Guilliman finally gets his empire, and masquerades under the pretense of being a steward, instead of the de facto Emperor he is. 

 

I freely admit I loathe the Primaris Marines because of Cawl and Guilliman's "improving the Emperor's designs." This could have had the same result (bigger marines) with less foolishness by having the Emperor psychically upload (or have Cawl unearth) Corax's work into creating Astartes to Guilliman. You could even still include Cawl in the setting this way! 

 

Mainly, I think I hate the fact that it doesn't "feel" like Chaos or the various Xenos races are a real threat. The Imperium is torn asunder by a warp rift and it's treated like a speed bump. The three "gathering storm" books focused on HOW AWESOME the Imperium is when it loses, instead of the Chaos victory. The Indomitus Crusade ends with a "Triumph at Ullanor" moment, with Guilliman acting as Horus & the Emperor. There's simply no credible threat. 

 

And it's kinda boring.

 

But haven't you seen the Plague Wars?

 

The Ultramarines were barely holding Mortarion and the Death Guard arrived and turned things around.

[civsmitty]

 

My problem with the fluff is it confirmed the worst thoughts I've ever had about the GW fluff team: that the Ultras, and only Ultras, should be the army you take. Guilliman finally gets his empire, and masquerades under the pretense of being a steward, instead of the de facto Emperor he is. 

 

I freely admit I loathe the Primaris Marines because of Cawl and Guilliman's "improving the Emperor's designs." This could have had the same result (bigger marines) with less foolishness by having the Emperor psychically upload (or have Cawl unearth) Corax's work into creating Astartes to Guilliman. You could even still include Cawl in the setting this way! 

 

Mainly, I think I hate the fact that it doesn't "feel" like Chaos or the various Xenos races are a real threat. The Imperium is torn asunder by a warp rift and it's treated like a speed bump. The three "gathering storm" books focused on HOW AWESOME the Imperium is when it loses, instead of the Chaos victory. The Indomitus Crusade ends with a "Triumph at Ullanor" moment, with Guilliman acting as Horus & the Emperor. There's simply no credible threat. 

 

And it's kinda boring.

 

But haven't you seen the Plague Wars?

 

The Ultramarines were barely holding Mortarion and the Death Guard arrived and turned things around.

 

Sure, that happened. But like I said, no credible threat. The imperium and guilliman simply won't be allowed to lose any major battle or system without some moral victory to lessen the sting. 

 

Knowing that just puts a damper on the entire in-game universe. They can fluff up the xenos races all they want, but until a Hive Fleet or Waaagh annhilates a flagship world or kills a popular chapter or character and makes it stay dead....there's no real danger, and therefore no real drama to this story. 

 

The new fluff reads like a parent explaining something bad to their toddler, then hurredly explaining why it's all okay, there's nothing to be afraid of, I promise Timmy!

[SpAcEGhOsT095]

GW killing off a popular chapter permanently. A toddler has a better chance of defeating a chainsaw wielding Mike Tyson. Not to say I'm against it, but money talks real loud. As awesome of a story that could be, deliberately inflicting long term harm on your business isn't the best of moves. But who knows, they could just be crazy enough to do it.

[DogWelder]

I'd like to expand on that actually. I would say that, as the 40k franchise goes mainstream, very few people usually want to read about the bad guys winning.

 

I know I know. There's supposed to be no bad guys just different sides but with the Imperium basically being mankind's last hope for survival and every other major faction just being downright insane (chaos) or intent on wiping out humanity, the Imperium are the closest to the good guys you can get.

 

As someone who is in a lot of mainstream fandoms (DC and Marvel Comics/Anime, TV shows etc.), I would say people like to see the villains story expanded upon but stop just short of seeing them win because it ruins the mood for them.

 

Not saying whether this is a good or bad thing but this is the trend I have noticed.