BA: A Gathering of Suggestions

[Arkangilos]

It's the weapon options that lend to utility Edited July 14, 2017 by Arkangilos

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

It's the weapon options that lend to utility

 

I don't disagree, I just don't think that the Power Level difference is a remotely accurate reflection of how much added utility there is, of all the DC weapon options Bolters separate them the most from Berserkers (given that Berserkers are base S5), but Vanguard / Sternguard veterans are PL 7 and Tactical marines are PL 5 (like Khorne Berserkers) - while DC are base PL 9... PL 10 with jump packs.

[Aothaine]

Friendly reminder. Lets keep this thread with just suggested ideas. If you want to debate those ideas please start a new thread and link it to your suggested idea here.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

True, at least Arkangilos has made me realize that I need to rephrase my suggestion, I do that tonight...

[Death Dealer 101]

Did you send this to GW? Get any reply?

[Aothaine]

Did you send this to GW? Get any reply?

 

I posted onto the GW facebook page where they asked us to post info. Advised them this is a living doc that I will be updating on a regular basis so they have easy access to information from Blood Angels & Successor players. 

 

I have been keeping an eye on the thread and have been updating the doc when I see suggestions being made. Sadly, the suggestions seem to have died out a bit. I'll be keeping my eye on here still looking for things to add to the sheet.

 

They did not respond but I would be very surprised if they did not look at it.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Aothaine

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Ok - tried to make this one a little more coherent...

 

Unit: Death Company

Description of Desired Change: Decrease in Points and Power Level.

Argument Supporting Change:

Power Level -

Let's compare Death Company to Khorne Berserkers... naked the Khorne Berserkers are significantly better, but much less Power Level. DC are Power Level (PL) 9 stock while KB are PL 5... that's a big difference. Ok well DC have access to more weapons and jump packs. However DC also increase in Power Level when they take jump packs. Why do they essentially pay twice? KB are the same Power Level as tactical marines, and currently it's far more efficient to take Vanguard Veterans than Death Company if you want more weapon options.

 

Bottom line: Is a unit of DC with jump packs worth TWICE a unit of KB without jump packs? ...no.

 

Points -

Let's compare Death Company to Khorne Berserkers... naked the Khorne Berserkers are 16points while the DC are 17points. While I firmly believe S5 base and hitting Twice in combat is better than a 6+ FnP to damage and an extra attack on the charge; we come again the idea that maybe DC are more expensive because they have more weapons options and jump packs - but they also pay more for weapons and become very expensive with jump packs. The lack of weapon variety is also less an issue for the KB because of their Strength. For a DC to hit at S6 he needs at least a Power Maul (4points)... the KB are already S5, and the ChainAxe makes them S6 for 1point. Further the KB unit point cost includes a Champion who can take a greater variety of weapons, has an extra attack and gives the unit better Leadership, they also have access to the Icon that let's them re-roll charge rolls, which would cost the DC 129points for Lemartes to achieve.

[IntoBread]

I'm relatively new to the forum but is this entire thread just people crying over why the entire game should be changed so that your army doesn't lose games? Some of the suggestions are pure stupidity, descent of angels where you're units get cover? There's no logic to that at all, something like a few editions ago where they only scattered 1D6 so instead of nine away they have to be six would be fine. These threads inevitably devolve into people coming to the conclusion that they need to be better at the game so hopefully we can speed up the process

[Palwatch]

@intobread this forum is for constructive ideas.

 

The DC with 5+ fnp would bring them in line with the costs I think.

[IntoBread]

Improving at an aspect of the hobby isn't constructive?

[Panzer]

I'm relatively new to the forum but is this entire thread just people crying over why the entire game should be changed so that your army doesn't lose games? Some of the suggestions are pure stupidity, descent of angels where you're units get cover? There's no logic to that at all, something like a few editions ago where they only scattered 1D6 so instead of nine away they have to be six would be fine. These threads inevitably devolve into people coming to the conclusion that they need to be better at the game so hopefully we can speed up the process

Way to make a first impression.

Improving at an aspect of the hobby isn't constructive?

No, telling people to get good is not constructive.

[IntoBread]

And telling people that nothing is their fault and to put it in a list of whines somehow is?

[Panzer]

And telling people that nothing is their fault and to put it in a list of whines somehow is?

So you are implying that everyone who is playing Blood Angels here simply sucks at it and that there is no reason to complain? Well was good talking to you then.

[Karhedron]

I think the DC definitely need to ignore all Morale tests. Not only are they barely sane, they actively want to die since they know it is better than the alternative.

 

Secondly, I would like to see something to represent a final heroic strike in their death throes. Something like the Wulfen rule that each model that dies can make one final round of attacks as they go down would be cool and thematic.

[Jolemai]

Play nice folks.

[Charlo]

I'm relatively new to the forum but is this entire thread just people crying over why the entire game should be changed so that your army doesn't lose games? Some of the suggestions are pure stupidity, descent of angels where you're units get cover? There's no logic to that at all, something like a few editions ago where they only scattered 1D6 so instead of nine away they have to be six would be fine. These threads inevitably devolve into people coming to the conclusion that they need to be better at the game so hopefully we can speed up the process

 

The cover from deep striking units is actually inspired by the Horus Heresy rules, where Blood angels can get cover the turn they arrive from deep strike, to represent the masses of dust/ debris kicked up by landing pods/ jump pack exhaust as well as the sheer confusion caused by a mass drop assault on an unsuspecting enemy.

 

Other than the "D6 scatter" suggestion, which, lets face it would be far too powerful - do you have any other ideas? Happy to hear them! I mean, giving us ideas will lead to some more discussion, other than us just moaning eh? ;)

[Palwatch]

The DC Ld stat I think is to represent that they need a chaplain or asteroth to keep them under control. Rather than it being about them being afraid, its about them being uncontrollable. Im happy enough with that aspect fluff wise. If I was a BA Captain I wouldnt be purposely bringing a squad of raving madmen if I didnt have some way of keeping them focused.

[Charlo]

The DC Ld stat I think is to represent that they need a chaplain or asteroth to keep them under control. Rather than it being about them being afraid, its about them being uncontrollable. Im happy enough with that aspect fluff wise. If I was a BA Captain I wouldnt be purposely bringing a squad of raving madmen if I didnt have some way of keeping them focused.

 

Okay, that is an excellent point.

 

But here is a hilarious rules idea... Any DC squad that isn't within range of a chaplain... What if for every model you lose to battle shock it has a chance at doing a mortal wound to the closest enemy unit within X", to represent the guy running off into them in a blind fury?!

[Palwatch]

That could potentially be massively op. So I doubt it

[Panzer]

 

The DC Ld stat I think is to represent that they need a chaplain or asteroth to keep them under control. Rather than it being about them being afraid, its about them being uncontrollable. Im happy enough with that aspect fluff wise. If I was a BA Captain I wouldnt be purposely bringing a squad of raving madmen if I didnt have some way of keeping them focused.

 

Okay, that is an excellent point.

 

But here is a hilarious rules idea... Any DC squad that isn't within range of a chaplain... What if for every model you lose to battle shock it has a chance at doing a mortal wound to the closest enemy unit within X", to represent the guy running off into them in a blind fury?!

 

I'd be fine with that as opponent. Since it's restricted to losses from battleshock and since they are so expensive that you are unlikely to see them in big units you won't see many of those mortal wounds in a match anyway. In return they should be immune to LD modifier tho.

[Charlo]

That could potentially be massively op. So I doubt it

 

I don't see how personally.

 

It would only activate on a chance (4+ maybe?) and to casualties inflicted purely by battleshock, so you might see a couple wounds tops if you are even in range.

 

Just a fun and characterful rule!

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Just got back from Nova, I just wanted to add, I don't care how skilled a player you are the difference between the new codex and current BA is enormous.

 

The stuff some of these chaos armies (for example) can do, and still have cheap throw-away cultist bodies, is unreal right now.

 

It would break my heart for BA to be "op" when the new codex comes, like in early 3rd edition, but at very least we need point reductions.

 

Haters can say whatever they want, but GW made it clear one of the goals with 8th is balance, BA need better point balance, not just "to win" but to be balanced with the rest of the game.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard

[Charlo]

Just got back from Nova, I just wanted to add, I don't care how skilled a player you are the difference between the new codex and current BA is enormous.

 

The stuff some of these chaos armies can do, and have cheap throw-away cultist bodies, is unreal right now.

 

It would break my heart for BA to be "op" when the new codex comes, like in early 3rd edition, but at very least we need point reductions.

 

Would be great for some write ups buddy!

[Arkangilos]

That could potentially be massively op. So I doubt it

There are AoS units that have a fanatic rule that when they fail the leadership roll, it represents them losing control and just suicide charging the enemy, and so the enemy takes a hit. That's what we should get with death company

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Tanks (land speeders etc) of all sizes blow up and do mortal wounds, big bugs and monsters die and thrash out one last time causing mortal wounds, Lucius the F Eternal causes mortal wounds just for making saves...

 

Not to go on another Lucius rant hah, but you charge him with DC and force him to make a bunch of saves - your unit straight up dies before he even starts fighting.

Edited September 4, 2017 by Chaplain Gunzhard