Land Raider+ Jump Packs = Profit?

[ShinyRhino]

Land Raiders of all types can now transport jump pack models. Does that mean much to those of us who field a lot of Vanguard and Assault Marines?

 

Assault Marines aren't beefy enough to really warrant riding inside a Land Raider, but Vanguard are. One of the problems I've always had is that my VVets get shot to ineffectiveness in the first turn or two. Can a Land Raider help them out?

 

It feels like the ultimate delivery method, because it can move 10" a turn until its second damage track. The Vets can then disembark and move the full 12" the next turn, shoot, and then charge.

 

Each Land Raider brings its own support weaponry to the table. The Godhammer can crack open tanks and monsters to assist the Vets, the Crusader can mow down a ton of infantry, and the Redeemer can put the hurt on heavy infantry with its D2 flamestorm cannons. You've got a Land Raider to complement any Vanguard armament.

 

Let's brainstorm some ideas for this new option, or is it total garbage and not worth doing?

[mathaius]

Dunno, IMO you're paying two delivery methods for 1 unit.

I'd embark units that wants/needs to move forward but have no mobility, like Terminators (if you don't want to DS), centurions, Honour Guard and such.

With JP you can jump between terrain (no more Dangerous Terrain in 8th) and be fast enough to be there in turn 2 without any fuss.

[Mr. Poe]

Most Land Raiders can only carry 5 Vanguard with Jump packs, right? Seems like a lot of points to just move 5 models that are not Terminators. Might be better to just bring another 5 bodies with no upgrades but the jump pack and maybe some shields for ablative wounds? 

[ShinyRhino]

We do have to remember that a Land Raider isn't a Rhino. It comes with a boatload of shooting, a large footprint, and durability in spades.

[Race Bannon]

Large footprint = big target.  Sure, it's durable, and it needs to be from all the arrows and bullets people whi ... compla ... discussed would be thrown at it to kill it :lol:

[MajorNese]

An interesting concept. The 2" disembark, 12" move and 2" guaranteed charge range definitely make it a flexible unit. Considering 4" meltabomb range and 12"/6" combi melta range (captain), this is a threat to both big stuff and characters, as the move (ignoring terrain and models) might make the character the closest unit.

 

Obviously, only 3+ armour means the unit inside will die to concentrated fire the turn after they disembarked, but with the metric ton of high-end weaponry, they will get the job done. Well-timed with other intervening models, this could create quite a nice, sudden concentration of forces and overwhelm whatever part of the field, without rolling for reserves, outflanking or deep striking like back in the day. Expensive, one-trick, but lethal.

[Kua]

When jump packs on VVs some editions ago were incredibly expensive because you were paying for their heroic intervention special rule, I was thinking about footslogging VVs in a LR.

When deepstriking was as unsafe as it was until recently, I was thinking about assault terminators in a LR.

 

But now…

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Going to have to agree with brother mathaius on this one.  Dont pay for two delivery systems.  If you drop the jump packs then you can just plop your Vanguard vets into rhinos or razorbacks.  Saves you a bucket of points.  Also, Land Raiders arent very "Raven Guardy".  If you are itching to spend big... get the stormraven gunship.  In fact... get two and fill each with Vanguard vets and ironclad dreads and then cue the music!

 

[Mr. Poe]

I do think that there is something to it. LR can pack a lot of fire power all by themselves to begin with. Maybe if you don't have any terminators or dont want to bring them, I dont see a reason why not to put some vanguards in there. It would function a lot like a Stormraven, just drive it around until you get close enough to something you can charge. 

 

My only hesitation is that you would only be able to carry 5 VV's with jump packs. If you take a Crusader you can take 8 VV's or 6 with a character? 

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I do think that there is something to it. LR can pack a lot of fire power all by themselves to begin with. Maybe if you don't have any terminators or dont want to bring them, I dont see a reason why not to put some vanguards in there. It would function a lot like a Stormraven, just drive it around until you get close enough to something you can charge. 

 

My only hesitation is that you would only be able to carry 5 VV's with jump packs. If you take a Crusader you can take 8 VV's or 6 with a character? 

Yeah but with a Land Raider, no music :(

[9x19 Parabellum]

I say skip the jump packs and just put in 15 troops of your choice.

 

1st turn: land raider 10", advance 3" and pop smoke.

 

2nd turn: 3" disembark, 6" move, and 7" charge

 

means you're hitting targets that 30" away on turn 2.

 

I just finished a crusader which I plan on using often despite not being raven-guardy.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I say skip the jump packs and just put in 15 troops of your choice.

 

1st turn: land raider 10", advance 3" and pop smoke.

 

2nd turn: 3" disembark, 6" move, and 7" charge

 

means you're hitting targets that 30" away on turn 2.

 

I just finished a crusader which I plan on using often despite not being raven-guardy.

So what is your "massive tank transport" themed music?

[Khine]

I do think that there is something to it. LR can pack a lot of fire power all by themselves to begin with. Maybe if you don't have any terminators or dont want to bring them, I dont see a reason why not to put some vanguards in there. It would function a lot like a Stormraven, just drive it around until you get close enough to something you can charge. 

 

My only hesitation is that you would only be able to carry 5 VV's with jump packs. If you take a Crusader you can take 8 VV's or 6 with a character? 

Wait.. wait..you can bring characters into a transport with another unit if there is room?? Did I miss that somewhere in the rule book??

[Mr. Poe]

As far as I know, yes you can. Nowhere do they limit how many units can embark a transport. They just give a maximum model count it can carry.

[Kua]

Yes, one of the good things about the 8th.

As someone characterized it:

After some time you start wondering why all the things not even mentioned now were forbidden before.

[Nusquam]

I've had success with a Raven that had 5 LC VV and Shrike. Now that the FW rules are out and I can actually use my Storm Eagle I'm excited to try it again. 20 capacity is pretty scary. Plus it's got quality shooting.

 

As for a LR I'm not feeling it. They are tough but slow. Plus my own experience with alpha striking them. Transport flyers need exactly one turn to get them where they need to be, combo with the 15" they'll move after getting out and it's just about guaranteed to get you where you want them. And you can start them as far back as possible to avoid a large variety of fire.

[SyNidus]

If you're set on getting Land Raiders with jump packs, i'd actually suggest NOT embarking them.

Instead, i'd stick Tacticals in the land raider and advance up the field with the Vanguard vets behind it. You don't need the land raider to be facing forward, you can (and should) use it as a massive screen behind which your jump troops can advance with impunity.

I'd go with the Godhammer pattern instead of a crusader for this.

[Mr. Poe]

Plus it's got quality shooting.

 

I believe this is a good example of a euphemism.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

I say skip the jump packs and just put in 15 troops of your choice.

 

1st turn: land raider 10", advance 3" and pop smoke.

 

2nd turn: 3" disembark, 6" move, and 7" charge

 

means you're hitting targets that 30" away on turn 2.

 

I just finished a crusader which I plan on using often despite not being raven-guardy.

So what is your "massive tank transport" themed music?

 

 

I guess I'd have to go with this:

 

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

I do think that there is something to it. LR can pack a lot of fire power all by themselves to begin with. Maybe if you don't have any terminators or dont want to bring them, I dont see a reason why not to put some vanguards in there. It would function a lot like a Stormraven, just drive it around until you get close enough to something you can charge. 

 

My only hesitation is that you would only be able to carry 5 VV's with jump packs. If you take a Crusader you can take 8 VV's or 6 with a character? 

Wait.. wait..you can bring characters into a transport with another unit if there is room?? Did I miss that somewhere in the rule book??

 

 

Yes. Multiple units. The only constaint for land raiders is model count (and to a degree, type).

 

You can have a lot of fun with this, especially in the Crusader.

 

For example, how about:

 

3 Centurions (9 models)

5 Assault or VV on foot (5 models)

2 foot characters or 1 jump pack character (2 models)

 

There's a ton of fun stuff to be done now!

[9x19 Parabellum]

Re: "don't pay for 2 delivery systems"

 

I can see the logic in this, but I have to disagree a bit.

 

The jump pack is not JUST a delivery system for first turn.  Assuming you use them right, kill your primary target, the jump packs allows for subsequent distance engagements.

 

Similarly, the Land Raider is not JUST a delivery system.  It does a number of other things.

 

There is overlap, yes, and I'm not saying it's always a great move to put jump units inside a land raider, but neither should it be considered forbidden to the codex astartes either.

 

PS: Just finished listening to Ride of the Valkyries.  Man that is some epic music.  Makes me want to go do brave and heroic things on my lunch break.

[MajorNese]

Re: "don't pay for 2 delivery systems"

 

I can see the logic in this, but I have to disagree a bit.

 

The jump pack is not JUST a delivery system for first turn.  Assuming you use them right, kill your primary target, the jump packs allows for subsequent distance engagements.

 

Similarly, the Land Raider is not JUST a delivery system.  It does a number of other things.

Also, 5 VV pay the insane cost of 15p for their jump packs. Considering their remaining wargear, that's a joke. And the jump packs alone don't make the VV scary, as they have to either weather incoming fire until they've reached their destination, or deep strike and make it rarely into CC first turn, but never reach meltabomb range alive. There's potential in the combination of JP and LR, with a tough delivery system protecting the fast-moving glass cannon inside.

[Shadow Captain Vyper]

Don't they pay 2ppm for Jump Packs?

 

The land raider idea is interesting to be sure, and while it isn't exactly "fast" it is the 2nd fastest option for fire support plus speed (first being the Stormraven)

[ShinyRhino]

The Stormraven is faster, but feels less durable.

 

I'm planning to paint the LR I've had rotting in a box since 5th Edition regardless, so I'll keep folks apprised of the results when they happen.