CSM & Death Guard codeces soon

[Sception]

per warhammer community

 

10 codeces before Christmas

 

First up is Space Marines, then Grey Knights, Chaos Marines, Death Guard, seemingly in that order

 

Codeces said to include:

• Army Specific Stratagems (ways to spend command points)
• Army Specific Warlord Traits (not randomized)
• Army Specific Psychic Powers (again not randomized)
• Relics / Artefacts
• Subfaction rules (Chaos Legions specifically mentioned)

.........................................

 

Personal Speculation:

 

With that kind of blistering release rate, there's basically no way that all of these codeces will coincide with major release waves of new models.  The fact that Death Guard are seeing a major release wave is probably the reason they're set to be the fourth codex out the gate rather than the second.  I still personally expect we'll see Death Guard pre-orders up by the end of August, but I could be wrong there.

 

As such, I do not expect that we'll be seeing any new models for the regular chaos marine army (or grey knights for that matter) coming with their new codeces.  I would, of course, be happy to be proven wrong on that, but my expectation is that we'll get just the codex and nothing else.  But that's still more than I personally had expected to see for non-cult CSMs this year, so I'm super excited!

 

In a way, the lack of new models can be seen as a good thing, as it means we'll get at least one codex & set of legion rules focused on our existing armies before the inevitable chaos counterpart to primaris marines comes along to steal the show - which I personally predict we'll see summer time next year, along with a trio box including new models for Abaddon, Bile, and either Huron, Be'Lakor, or someone we've never seen before in the third slot.  But those are idle predictions I pulled out of my rear based on literally nothing at all.

[MoGuy]

Question is if the Thousand Sons will get their own codex...?

[WarriorFish]

It's a brand new day, so there's nothing stopping GW from releasing models without updated rules/codex if they want. Seems hard to imagine but we'll have to wait and see.

 

I'm pleased to see what's coming so now it's a case of waiting to see what the specifics are. I'm hoping for some solid Legion style rules to make play styles varied and viable - in particular Slaanesh. Wouldn't mind something similar to the short lived Traitor Legions book not least because it'd mean I could go back to my Apothecary counts-as IoE conversions ;)

[Zodd1888]

TSons will definitely get their own. I just hope it's before Christmas, if not I'll be calling shenanigans on GW without a good reason.

[Sception]

Question is if the Thousand Sons will get their own codex...?

 

I'm sure they will eventually.  What I'm not sure of is whether they (or the Emperor's Children or World Eaters) will be included in the generic CSM codex in the mean time.  I could see that going either way.  If I had to guess, I'd say EC and WE will be in the CSM codex, but TS will be stuck waiting for their own to appear some time later, but still likely one of hte 10 to appear this year.  But that's pure guesswork on my part.

 

It's a brand new day, so there's nothing stopping GW from releasing models without updated rules/codex if they want. Seems hard to imagine but we'll have to wait and see.

 

It's not that new a day.  

 

GW won't release rules for which there aren't models (apart from legacy things like bike lords or jump sorcerers), nor will they release new models for which there are no rules.

 

And the question isn't whether they'd release model waves without new books (they do that on occassion), but rather new books without new model waves - which would be a relatively new development, but I really can't imagine we'd be seeing 10 codeces in the span of 6 months otherwise, not when we're also still expecting new models, rulebooks, and minigames on the AoS side of things as well.

 

We'll see though.

 

Mostly, I'm just excited that we'll be seeing a proper CSM book soon, rather than having to wait until next year only to have the book appear alongside a range of Nu CSMs largely supplanting the existing line anyway.

 

Not that I'll be complaining when we inevitably get the Nu CSMs.  My annoyance at the Rievers aside, the primaris models look fantastic, and I'll be all over true scale CSMs whenever they do appear.  I'm just glad to get at least one 8e codex focused squarely on my existing dudes before that happens.

Edited July 5, 2017 by malisteen

[ElDuderino]

I'd be so pissed if we get chaos primaries instead of updated baseline minis, chaos marines and termies are all I want. Cult troopers would be great too, but berzerkers are easy enough to convert, noise marines would be cool though.

 

It'd be a bit of a bummer if a codex was all we got, especially since codices released early in a new edition seems to age rather quickly.

 

But on a positive note, there's nothing stopping at least one or two miniature-releases coinciding with the codex so I'll say I'm cautiously optimistic

[El_Dicko]

Someone asked about EC legion rules and was told they should be very happy or something to that effect, I expect "chapter tactics" type stuff will be in there for all the legions.

[Lord Abaia]

Hmm... Well I was about to pick up some daemon models for casual summoning since I already had the rules in the index, but I think I'll hold off now. I don't want to have to buy a daemon codex just for summoning if the rules/ points are likely to change by December.

 

Oh well, there's close to a hundred other models I would like to add to my army at this point anyway. And I'm WAY more excited to get Legion rules back than to do some dubious summoning.

 

Sounds good.

[Trevak Dal]

If they come out with Tau (and give us back Jump Shoot Jump without taking away anything...) By the end of the year I will have all my armies' books.

 

And if they give us updated 8th edition versions of the traitor Legion rules...

 

It would be a good day...

[Sception]

I'd be so pissed if we get chaos primaries instead of updated baseline minis, chaos marines and termies are all I want. Cult troopers would be great too, but berzerkers are easy enough to convert, noise marines would be cool though.

 

It'd be a bit of a bummer if a codex was all we got, especially since codices released early in a new edition seems to age rather quickly.

 

But on a positive note, there's nothing stopping at least one or two miniature-releases coinciding with the codex so I'll say I'm cautiously optimistic

 

Hrm.  Well, I think terminators will stay around.  After all, several key CSM characters wear terminator armor, we just got rubric termies, we're getting DG termies, etc.  So I expect we'll see updated regular terminators in the future, rather than chaos 'gravis' armor or whatever the primaris equivalent is.  It's possible long term we'll see that as a characterization split between new loyalist and new chaos models, with loyalists getting gravis and chaos sticking with terminator armor.

 

As for the power armored models, though, I mean this is all speculation, but I don't think we will ever see updated basic CSM models in the current scale.  No, I think when CSMs so get new models, they'll be in the primaris scale, or at least closer to that than the current scale.  I don't know whether they'll be presented as separate units or not, though.  Like, look at plague marines.  The new ones are practically primaris already, very nearly that size, and head and shoulders taller than the models they're replacing.  They're still just 'plague marines' rules-wise, though.  So maybe eventual new CSMs will be like that, truscale sized models but not a new or different kind of unit and without any narrative justification for the change in scale.

 

But whether they're called a new unit or not, whether they're fluffed as something different or not, they'll still effectively be Nu CSMs model wise, in a new and non-compatible scale with the old stuff.  A replacement, rather than an update in terms of models, even if not in rules or fluff.

 

At least, that's what I expect.

 

 

But there will be a wait before we find out, because again, I don't expect any new models to come with the codex we'll be seeing in the next month or two.

[DeadFingers]

Considering that we knew Codices would be released pretty soon one after another and that the Death Guard was the next big Chaos release, I don't see how anyone could possibly expect vanilla CSM to get updated models with their Codex. They'll most likely get their time in the spotlight along with Abaddon later down the line, probably after the four Cult Legions are done. I know that model releases are usually paired with books, but they could perfectly release new Chaos models without also releasing a new Codex. Or maybe we'll see a Codex: Black Legion or even Codex: Chaos Undivided. Maybe they'll break all expectations and actually keep going with the rest of the Traitor Legions, updating vanilla CSM units with them, but that's really unlikely.

[Sception]

I agree that the new CSM codex probably won't come with any new models (maybe a character or something, probably not even that).

 

When we do see new models for non-cult CSMs (I think maybe next year, but it might not be until all the cults are done, pushing it 2 or 3 years dont the line), I think we'll just get a new new codex along with them.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Honestly don't even mind that the CSM codex won't be coming along with any major model releases, I'm just happy that chaos will be one of the first armies to get a full range of relics, stratagems and most exciting of all, going back to legion specific rules. The indexes are incredibly bland which has really turned me off from 8th edition so far, but I expect the CSM codex will fix that. 

[Prot]

I'm just hoping at this point that within 6-12 months I'm not carrying 4-5 books around per army. They are claiming we may still need our indexes for example.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

Where did you see that ? Dunno why we would need an Index when playing a monofaction army. 

[Sception]

They might be planning to discontinue parts of some model ranges, in which case a new codex might not have all the rules for your old models.  And that's before you get to multi-faction armies, like CSMs plus some daemons or a renegade knight, in which case you'd still need the indeces for the units not in your new codex.

 

Personally, I'm in the middle of painstakingly reproducing the unit entries and rules from the index in table form in a Word, so that when I put an army together, I can make a file with all of that army's specific rules and unit entries, save it as a pdf, and print it to take to games.  Basically have my own mini codex of exactly and only the rules I'm using that day.  weapon profiles for exactly what I armed a squad with on their unit profile page, etc.  Less hassle even than flipping around in a single index/codex, let alone multiple ones.  If the opponent wants me to double check primary sources I have that stuff on my phone.

[Commissar K.]

10 dexes in 4,5 month. Fun errata times ahead xD

[Sception]

We're still at the start of July, and Christmas is at the end of December.  That's 6 months, not four and a half.  Codeces will be coming quick, but not that quick.  Assuming the stated order, SM, GK, CSM, DG, and an even distribution of codex releases (not at all guaranteed), we should see the CSM book in August with Death Guard in late August / early September.  Again, though, nothing says the codeces will be evenly distributed over the 6 month time frame.

[Archaeinox]

If TS keep the 3 dark hereticus powers even for Magnus and Ahriman while Deathguard get their own powers until 2018, that's a kick in the nuts to all of us who went Dragonball Z deep into Thousand Sons 6 months ago upon release.

 

In the words of that little kid from the cigarettes GI Joe PSA: "You better bring it"

Edited July 5, 2017 by Archaeinox

[Zodd1888]

I'm having to agree here. This is pretty whack that TSons, if not in the first 10, will be rolling with 3 psychic powers for half a year or more.

 

The Emperor didn't need Nikaea to disband the cults and warp meddling of the TSons, he just needed GW to forget about the lore.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Zodd1888

[Sception]

The sooner Sons get their own book with expanded psychic abilities the better, but in the mean time all three of the CSM powers are good, prescience and warptime in particular are amazing, and smite spam is good.

[the jeske]

Now I don't know if GW is going to update the csm line, but unless it gets redone like the chad marines I do not see it updated. That is why I think is that GW is going to invest first in to the cult stuff, and that that stuff is going to be updated/enhanced modelwise. What I am realy exited about are the legion rules, chaos playability more or less hangs on that. Now I know that stuff is going to be updated every year etc etc, but It would be realy nice if GW got at least the "undivided" legions right[considering the high chance of lack of new models etc].

[Sception]

We'll see.  The first few codeces are coming out way to quickly to incorporate player feedback, so I don't expect fixes to obliterators or the other units that are kind of borderline if not outright baddish in the index, and again I really don't think it's realistic to expect new models or units for generic CSMs, not with how quickly the books are coming and how far in advance GW are teasing things now.

 

So yeah, the main thing to be looking for is what the legion rules turn out to be.  I'm optimistic that they'll be cool and interesting, and give some meaningful reason to run <Legion> alignment detachments & armies instead of <Chaos> ones.  But I'm a bit more pessimistic about their chances of changing the competitive outlook for chaos generally from where it currently stands in the index.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Great,  so one of our biggest problems - a lack of 'modern' wargear is still happily being completely ignored by GW!

 

I'm sick & tired after umpteen years of having only 3 special + 4 heavy weapon options,  while Loyalists instead get new toys handed to them every 4-6 months or so!

Not to mention,  it's impossible to build over half our options from our own damn model line,  because those models don't even friggin' exist! >:(

 

Sure,  by all means,  leave the cult stuff to get redone with the proper WE's + Emp's Children codices.  But c'mon GW,  we've never even had plastic heavy weapons after waiting only a meager 18 years!?!

Hell,  we don't even have a kit for Chosen,  and Cultists are hilarious devoid of anything even resembling options!

 

At the very least,  give us some proper bloody kits for Chosen & Cultists!

[Archaeinox]

prescience and warptime in particular are amazing, and smite spam is good.

 

This we can most certainly agree upon