8e Codex Space Marine discussion

[Race Bannon]

News news news.  Sorry I can't paste a link right now but there is a growing thread in the N&R forum about it.

 

First note: in the advert, there is a half-half Chapter symbol next to the "Sub-Faction Rules" that shows Ultramarines and Raven Guard :tu:

 

Frankly, this was to be expected, yet it is certainly a confirmation to me.

 

This thread is to help us just gab about it.  No doubt other threads will be made and/or expanded once more details come to light and after it's release.

 

Let's keep the whi ... disappointments about spending money for an Index that will get trumped by the soon-to-be-released Codecies.  I'm in the boat too.

[Mr. Poe]

I wonder if they are going to be giving each of the "sub-factions", as they call them, their own strategems, relics, warlord traits, psychic powers, and tactical objectives. By the way they have the graphic it looks like all those things will be Space Marines generic and the sub-factions will only get special rules equivalent to chapter tactics?

 

Is everyone else reading this the same way?

[Bedouin2]

I didn't even notice the half Raven Guard emblem next to the Ultramarine one this morning when I gave it a read. Can't wait to dig into that, hopefully have some good lore to share as to what the Ravens are doing now.

[Race Bannon]

Yo Poe (new thing, it's happening), isn't that how it mostly was in 7e?

 

I mean, RG-specific psychic powers would be da shiznit.

[Mr. Poe]

They would be very cool indeed. I'm just a little confused because I just assumed that they would follow the way things were in 7th when each chapter had their own relics, warlord traits and objectives. But then I saw that they included psychic powers and strategems as well and thought that maybe it's too good to be true lol 

[WAR]

Adding the links from Warhammer community page 

 

Codexes Inbound

 

Questions and Answers 

 

I am for one excited for this....Here's to hoping I get decent rules for Raptors (come on FW give me awesome rules!) Imperial Fists and Crimson Fists (I hate the fact they use the same chapter tactic as it makes little sense to me). Unique Relics, Traits, tactical objectives, would be cool and plausible. Unique Psychic Powers would be awesome but doubtful . Chapter Traits are a given.....hopefully better than the last one for some of the other chapters. 

 

And to cover the grip about buying the index and then having to buy a codex or in my case the Lack of a grip.  I reached out to a friend that money is tight and has not got a chance to buy 8th ed stuff yet for him or his son yet. I told him I would give him my Index 1 for his son so he could play his Dark Angels. I would rather see his son play then not be able to play. And the indexes were a get you playing book I went into buying it knowing that at some point it was void for me.  Thats my suggestion to everyone find Little Johnny at the gaming store that plays one of the armies without an update or the rules and give him your book......thats unless he is a complete tool. 

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I think many of us are still secretly afraid that "old" GW is alive and the new codex will be bland and uninspiring.  I hope that "new" GW made this codex.  

 

Things I'd like to see...

 

Strategems that play to Raven Guard stealth/alphastrike/buggery.

e.g  1 CP - Extensive Planning: Once during deployment you may place two Raven Guard units  consecutively

The idea here is to make it easier for RG to secure first turn by finishing deployment 1 step earlier.  

1 CP - On Time: One jump pack unit can make an additional move as if in the movement phase including advancing.  

1 CP - On Target: One Raven Guard unit within 6" of a Raven Guard scout receives +1 to hit rolls in the shooting phase.  

 

Chapter Tactics

1. Enemy units -1 to hit rolls when firing at Raven Guard infantry during the first game turn. 

2. Assault Marines are troops.  

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Just read the community article.  I think the best part is for non space marine players.

 

"For you gamers out there, one very exciting addition are new rules representing specific sub-groups in many of the major factions; these range from old classics like the Space Marine Chapters or Chaos Space Marine Legions to returning rules for individual craftworlds, as well as previously unexplored groupings like Necron dynasties and Adeptus Mechanicus forge worlds. These will be included in each codex."

 

I guess that means we can expect to see imperial guard regiment tactics and all manner is craziness from orks.  The only way to turn this up to 11 is for GW to offer model ranges that support all the new sub factions.  

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Spinal_Tap_-_Up_to_Eleven.jpg

Edited July 5, 2017 by SanguinaryGuardsman

[Race Bannon]

The pic is so win.  If it's not known where that comes from, research is highly recommended.

 

Still, I would be very excited to see some classic ideas come back and your suggestions earlier touch on 7e themes.  But there are some 3e themes that would be *loved* ... like "Shrike's Wing" where Command squads had the (expensive) option to have JP + LC, which was not possible otherwise.  So, for 8e, that can be done by the VV.  Yet, if Company Vets could get them for the RG, would that be cool enough or just redundant?

[Claws and Effect]

Shrike + his Wing as a self contained unit choice would be cool.

 

He could act as the Sgt for a Veteran Squad, all of which have packs and claws as mandatory equipment.

[Mr. Poe]

Lets be honest, would be freaking cool...

 

...and IMO better than making AM troops options. I think shifting units around the FOC can cause issues and would like the leave it as a relic of the past.

 

 

 

Strategems that play to Raven Guard stealth/alphastrike/buggery.

e.g  1 CP - Extensive Planning: Once during deployment you may place two Raven Guard units  consecutively

The idea here is to make it easier for RG to secure first turn by finishing deployment 1 step earlier.  

1 CP - On Time: One jump pack unit can make an additional move as if in the movement phase including advancing.  

1 CP - On Target: One Raven Guard unit within 6" of a Raven Guard scout receives +1 to hit rolls in the shooting phase.  

 

Chapter Tactics

1. Enemy units -1 to hit rolls when firing at Raven Guard infantry during the first game turn. 

2. Assault Marines are troops.  

 

All of these sound really cool. The -1 to hit on first turn would be super powerful vs. certain armies, maybe too powerful.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Lets be honest, would be freaking cool...

 

...and IMO better than making AM troops options. I think shifting units around the FOC can cause issues and would like the leave it as a relic of the past.

 

 

 

Strategems that play to Raven Guard stealth/alphastrike/buggery.

e.g  1 CP - Extensive Planning: Once during deployment you may place two Raven Guard units  consecutively

The idea here is to make it easier for RG to secure first turn by finishing deployment 1 step earlier.  

1 CP - On Time: One jump pack unit can make an additional move as if in the movement phase including advancing.  

1 CP - On Target: One Raven Guard unit within 6" of a Raven Guard scout receives +1 to hit rolls in the shooting phase.  

 

Chapter Tactics

1. Enemy units -1 to hit rolls when firing at Raven Guard infantry during the first game turn. 

2. Assault Marines are troops.  

 

All of these sound really cool. The -1 to hit on first turn would be super powerful vs. certain armies, maybe too powerful.

Not buying it... Dark Angels can run 2 dark shrouds which is going to be -1 hit for at least 1 turn if not more.  I think it would be strong but not outrageous.  Although this dispute looks hillariously dumb in the context of 7th edition where the cheese was on another level.  

 

Do you think a 7th edition ork army with a perma -1 to hit for enemy shooting would stand a chance against a tournament hard eldar or tau list?  

 

I'm having a hard time visualizing what Raven Guard relics will be for 8th.   Maybe some extra shiny claws and a something that emulates night fighting?  I dunno (>.<)

[Claws and Effect]

I'm hoping they just update some of the 7th edition relics.

 

SS&M, Nihilus, Ex Tenebris, to name a few.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Ex tenebris...

 

Assault 4, Str 5 AP -1 2 DMG 25 points.

 

Deal?

[Khine]

I could potentially see an armour that gives concealed position as a chapter relic.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Khine

[ShinyRhino]

I wonder if they are going to be giving each of the "sub-factions", as they call them, their own strategems, relics, warlord traits, psychic powers, and tactical objectives. By the way they have the graphic it looks like all those things will be Space Marines generic and the sub-factions will only get special rules equivalent to chapter tactics?

 

Is everyone else reading this the same way?

Those boxes look like a hierarchy. Doesn't look like we'll get each of those green boxes for each subfaction. We can hope though.

[Kua]

Only thing I am hoping for is that the subfaction rules won’t pigeon-hole the subfactions. Like making RG into a band of jumppack tards.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Kua

[Nusquam]

I'm very excited. I dug out my old RG WLTs and Maelstrom cards and am going to give them a whirl over a few games this weekend. I'm glad the age of random WLTs and powers is over. I really want to make a character I can bring into matched play every time. I want a "Vanish into the Gloom" v2.0.

 

I also really want primaris options to be expanded. At least give the sarges access to combi weapons or something for the Intercessors. Give them something that makes them a little more like a side grade to tacticals, even shaving off like 5 points. And please for the love of all that is good cut out the "May not transport Primaris" from everything. I can't stand that nonsense. I would hate it more but I really like the Repulsor tank.

[NiceGuyAdi]

Looking at the half/half Chapter badge, you guys haven't figured what's up? Having already co-opted the RG abbreviation for himself, Roboute Guilliman is now rebranding the Raven Guard.

 

There will only be rules for the Ultraraven Chapter in there.

 

And they're dark blue.

 

Sorry I couldn't help myself.

[Mr. Poe]

 

I wonder if they are going to be giving each of the "sub-factions", as they call them, their own strategems, relics, warlord traits, psychic powers, and tactical objectives. By the way they have the graphic it looks like all those things will be Space Marines generic and the sub-factions will only get special rules equivalent to chapter tactics?

 

Is everyone else reading this the same way?

Those boxes look like a hierarchy. Doesn't look like we'll get each of those green boxes for each subfaction. We can hope though.

 

 

That's kind of how I interpreted it too.

[9x19 Parabellum]

As I only started playing 40k in 7th edition, I know little about what old school RG looked like.

 

Is the jump pack thing a recent evolution for RG? (ie, 7th edition)?

[Race Bannon]

If I understand the question correctly, the Jump Pack squads have been an integral part of the RG identity.

 

From the 3e Index Astartes article, "Combat Doctrine" section:

 

 

The Raven Guard follows the dictates of the Codex Astartes closely, though the Legion differs in the tactical application of its troops.  The Raven Guard depends heavily on Scout forces able to act alone for extended periods of time and rapid reaction forces such as Assault Troops equipped with jump packs.

 

To my knowledge, this is the first instance jump packs are married to the Raven Guard as a preference to waging war.

[Claws and Effect]

Blood Angels, Black Templars, and Raven Guard all seem to specialize in melee.

 

Templars favor a footslogging approach, while Raven Guard prefer jump packs. Blood Angels are somewhere in the middle.

[Jacques Corbin]

The biggest difference between us and the Blood Angels is subtlety. We cripple and hinder our enemy before closing in for the kill. The BA move as fast as they can towards the enemy and slash & burn them.

[SyNidus]

The biggest difference between us and the Blood Angels is subtlety. We cripple and hinder our enemy before closing in for the kill. The BA move as fast as they can towards the enemy and slash & burn them.

Yup, this is right. Also, i think the BA are more specialized to jump packs than the RG. We are more mixed in our approach and incorporate stealth the way they (and most other chapters) don't.