Primarch Book 6 - Fulgrim

[Mellow]

I have read this one. I’m not entirely sure what to make of it all. I feel it was missing something but I can’t quite put my finger on it. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good novel.

 

Also. For a beautiful Primarch they could have put more effort in the picture of Fulgrim on the front. He’s a munter.

[bluntblade]

Ain't drag queen Sangi, though.

[Bulwyf]

I have read this one. I’m not entirely sure what to make of it all. I feel it was missing something but I can’t quite put my finger on it. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a good novel.

 

Also. For a beautiful Primarch they could have put more effort in the picture of Fulgrim on the front. He’s a munter.

 

I've always thought of Fulgrim looking like an albino Jim Morrison with the same kind of charisma and stage presence.

[mc warhammer]

going off the musician thing and the working class vibe this story explores, i always thought bowie would be a good inspiration for fulgrim’s charm.

 

bowie was somewhat grounded but also ethereal, glam and pompous but also popular and empathetic to many. an artist from relatively humble roots

 

instead, i feel like we got an imaginary peacock cliche

 

really looking forward to this book, since i’ve been hammering on about fulgrim’s working class upbringing for years. it’s an interesting dynamic when mixed with his artistic aspirations

[Mellow]

I wouldn’t get your hopes up. His upbringing doesn’t really feature.

[Sandlemad]

 

really looking forward to this book, since i’ve been hammering on about fulgrim’s working class upbringing for years. it’s an interesting dynamic when mixed with his artistic aspirations

 

There aren't any flashbacks to Chemos but Fulgrim dwells on it a good bit when thinking about Byzas, and brings it up in dialogue and speeches to his men.

[Bulwyf]

As noted, you do get some recollections from Fulgrim about his Chemosian days or the occasional comparison between the situation on that planet or its people and Chemos but not a chapter's worth of flashbacks.

[mc warhammer]

yeah, i’m more interested in it thematically than actual flashbacks , so it sounds like what i’m after

[Tymell]

Finished this one myself today, and very pleased with it. As promised, there's actually very little combat in it, it's much more focused on the political manoeuvrings as Fulgrim tries to manipulate the situation on this world into stable compliance in time.

 

Most of all I really enjoy the work we see with Fulgrim's character and that of the legion, it's superb. There is an arrogance to them, a certainty that their way is always best. But it's not cartoonish or overdone, far from the extreme they end up at in the Heresy. There is a pride and self-certainty that would rub some up the wrong way, and a hunger to outdo others and prove themselves, but it doesn't consume them. We can see these flaws, we know that over time they will accentuate and grow worse, and we know that eventually the influence of Chaos will tip it over the edge into something truly dark, but for now that's all it is: flawed character. There is still a nobility to their motives. It never felt (to me anyway) like it was being too foreshadow-y, none of the passages made me feel like the author was chuckling darkly and winking to the reader. Sure, we know how it ultimately ends up, but setting aside that knowledge it doesn't feel inevitable. It feels like a legion and primarch with a distinct character, not one without flaws, but still loyal at this point.

 

There were even a couple of moments which, with surprisingly subtlety, gave some more depth to Fulgrim's desire for perfection. It felt like he didn't just want it "because he wants to be perfect", but out of a desire not to let others down. He talks about his time on Chemos, how perceived weaknesses would be used against him. He couldn't let himself have such weaknesses, and that is why he strives for perfection, because to be imperfect would be to fail. He even feels guilty for simply not being there during the IIIrd Legion's early years.

 

I'm babbling, and probably not getting across half of what I want to. The point is, I really enjoyed this, and felt it was a well-written study in and development of Fulgrim's character, and by extension his sons. That is firmly the focus here, and some might find the lack of action or much in the way of surprises disappointing. Personally, I really enjoyed the character work. That's what I think I want from the Primarch series first and foremost.

 

It's a tough call between this and Lorgar for my second favourite of the series, but this is definitely up there.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Tymell

[Taliesin]

I'm reading this now. Excellent. About 60 pages in, loving it.

[Indefragable]

Finished audiobook.

 

Best Primarch book so far.

 

Sorry to whoever griped about how “every Primarch book is the best one since the last one,” but IMO it is quite true with this one.

 

What we have is a man-machine-moment historical tale. The moment is when the III Legion comes from last place to become not just an equal to its contemporaries, but a contender and perhaps even one that pulls ahead. The machine is not the latest product of the Adeptus Mechanicus or Astartes Armour, but the oldest tool in human civilization: politics. And the man...a man who achieved the impossible on his own dying world only to be plucked into the stars and given his own dying Legion. He is in a position to be third fiddle to his brothers at best. He has every right to be anxious. To be nervous. To play as conservatively as possible to ensure that what resources he has last as long as possible.

 

But this is Fulgrim. He is the Executive-At-Ease. He makes the impossible look easy. And the impossible is to have a decimated, demoralized, and “little brother” Legion not only become fully independent of its “older” comrades, not only become equals, but get ahead. And how does one accomplish such a task? How does one do it bigger stronger faster longer? Simple.

 

Perfection.

 

This is a wonderful tale. One could easily peel back the Wh40k elements and cloak it in some other setting and it would be just as engaging and enlightening. In this story one can see Steve Jobs wrestling with the iPhone in the early 2000s. Fred Smith at the blackjack tables with FedEx’s last few dollars. Washington staring across the Delaware River.

 

It is the story of how one pulls ahead and how to keep your head when all others around you are losing theirs. But also a story of forewarning....for there is no failure like success.

 

 

Other thoughts:

-just enough 40k to add a little something with out getting bogged down in it...yet a decidedly 40k/HH tale

-interesting non-Astartes characters

-just enough depth to flesh out what you think you know about characters

my personal favorite is the grizzled no-nonsense Space Marine who is all combat all the time who doesn’t get anything that isn’t fighting...yet learns that even a single compliment to a mortal soldier can have greater effect than 1000 bolt shells

-showing the reader things rather than telling

-just enough surprises to make it interesting

-making me stop and pull out my old Ancient Greek textbook from high school. Seriously. What a brilliant thesis.

[Brother Dimetrius]

Just read it. Liked it. One of the best parts of the earlier HH books was plugging into the Great Crusade feel & vibe. The worldbuilding of the myriad of human worlds that existed pre-Imperium. This one accomplished this very nicely, and provided an interesting character study along the way. Just enough surprises along the way to keep it from feeling too generic story wise .

[Laughingman]

I thought it was hilarious that fulgrim was married... Multiple times in fact, I imagine when the executive clans figured out they could not kill Fulgrim, then being his friend was the second best option, easiest way being throwing your most beautiful daughter at him and call it good. 

[TheRealMcCagh]

In Cronelord Fabius is talking to another Astartes and the guy brings up 'Fulgrim once conquered a world with but six of us' and Fabius kind of scowls and says 'It was seven of us.' I take it that is a reference to this compliance? And is the six vs seven a reference to something in this novel, or just thrown in there to imply Fabius was actually there?

[Tymell]

In Cronelord Fabius is talking to another Astartes and the guy brings up 'Fulgrim once conquered a world with but six of us' and Fabius kind of scowls and says 'It was seven of us.' I take it that is a reference to this compliance? And is the six vs seven a reference to something in this novel, or just thrown in there to imply Fabius was actually there?

 

There are indeed seven warriors with Fulgrim for the compliance, and Fabius was one of them. But his role was more research-based than one at the forefront of any combat or negotiations, and he was already disliked and/or mistrusted by others. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if in the aftermath he was left out of most of the grand tales of that compliance, and the others got all the glory. I expect that line (and his reaction to it) are references to that fact.

[TheRealMcCagh]

The Astartes that said it is Flavius Alkenex, was he one of the six? He's kind of a prick so it would make sense that he is sort of taking a swipe and Fabius

[Tymell]

The Astartes that said it is Flavius Alkenex, was he one of the six? He's kind of a prick so it would make sense that he is sort of taking a swipe and Fabius

 

Aha, indeed he was. The seven (Astartes) with Fulgrim were:

 

Fabius

Flavius Alkenex

Grythan Thorn

Narvo Quin

Cyrius

Kapseros Telmar

Abdemon

 

The fates of those I know of:

 

Quin was mentioned in FW Book II, slain by Gabriel Santar on Isstvan V; Abdemon was one of the loyalists likely slain on Isstvan III; Thorn was slain during a botched commandeering of the Sunstone at Isstvan III (those last two from FW Book I).

 

Fabius we of course know about, and you said Flavius is in Clonelord. Which would just leave Cyrius and Telmar unaccounted for, unless they appear in another book I haven't read yet.

[TheRealMcCagh]

Regarding Flavius' fate (huge Cronelord spoiler):

 

 

He get's frozen in time along with the Fulgrim clone and becomes part of Trayzyn's collection.

 

 

Kapseros Telmar sounds really familiar to me, but I can't think of why

Edited March 9, 2018 by TheRealMcCagh

[Morovir]

Kasperos Telmar is "The Radiant King in His Joyful Repose", and appears in Fabius Bile: Primogenitor, leading the 12th Millennial, where he is attempts to ascend to daemonhood. It goes as well as you'd expect, seeing as the 12th Millennial were serving under Fabius in the sequel.

Cyrius, later known as Lord Commander Cyrius, is the first victim of Lucius' ability to possess the bodies of his killers.

[bluntblade]

Abdemon definitely died in the initial battle for the Preceptor's Palace.

[TheRealMcCagh]

@Morovir That's totally it. Lots of continuity of characters between Reynolds' EC novels. Reminds me of the Iron Warriors in Angel Exterminatus and later Storm of Iron, McNeill even used the same planet if I remember right

[DarkChaplain]

I do think that Josh handles these things much less hammy than Graham, though. It's one of the things I've criticised McNeill in reviews over: He recycles the same characters as protagonists over and over. Even the Magnus the Red: Master of Prospero novel reused Storm of Iron/Angel Exterminatus Iron Warriors and A Thousand Sons/The Outcast Dead TS. He rarely introduces new characters anymore, which is a shame.

 

Josh's works cross-reference a lot, including his WHFB/AoS stories. The amount of references in his End Times novels was frankly amazing and spot on. But he tends to leave those things in the periphery without shining too long a spotlight on them. It makes sense for important characters with bright futures to rise up later on, if they survive. It makes sense for the higher echelons to know one another from service directly under Fulgrim. Fabius remembering events and holding grudges, or Emperor's Children boasting are totally within character.

 

I think this has a lot to do with what Josh writes and enjoys outside of his Black Library work. His Royal Occultists stories for example are derivative of plenty of supernatural/horror stories set during that same timeframe, like Carnacki. He connects dots incredibly well and slots his own works neatly between other sources while respecting them fully. Naming forbidden tomes or strange cases of one's predecessor is fully within the scope of that kind of story, the same way 40k connects through the ages.

Josh is incredibly good at picking up strands and expanding on them, or tying them into his own material, making them feel authentic while adding his own spin (usually laced with comedic value). Without wanting to exaggerate, he's pretty much the ideal author of tie-in fiction in my eyes, because of how he works with those interconnected webs of franchises, settings and genres. Just looking over his answers on End Times / early AoS questions (which he was told to clarify as being his headcanon and not official info, I'm afraid) makes it clear that he has a damn good understanding of what he is writing and where to develop tidbits to enrich the whole.

[bluntblade]

Reynolds reaches outside McNeill's usual cast, is my take. And another distinguishing factor is that it always seems to be the biggest VIPs all knowing one another.

 

Thousand Sons serve with Sons of Horus, Word Bearers and EC? Translates to them being on close terms with the Mournival, Erebus and Kor Phaeron, and I think Eidolon and Kaisaeron. It's too easy, and means that promising supporting characters (Serghar Targhost, Sedirae, Tybalt Marr) are kept firmly in the background.

[bluntblade]

On reflection, I've decided that it would've been a nice nod to the Calth stuff.for Ahriman to have been acquainted with and disliked Hol Beloth. Also Hathor Maat seems more likely to be pals with the likes of Sedirae than Sejanus.

 

Just missed opportunities really, which other writers have sidestepped reasonably well at several points.

[Orwell84]

Reynolds reaches outside McNeill's usual cast, is my take. And another distinguishing factor is that it always seems to be the biggest VIPs all knowing one another.

 

Thousand Sons serve with Sons of Horus, Word Bearers and EC? Translates to them being on close terms with the Mournival, Erebus and Kor Phaeron, and I think Eidolon and Kaisaeron. It's too easy, and means that promising supporting characters (Serghar Targhost, Sedirae, Tybalt Marr) are kept firmly in the background.

 

Agreed. Reynolds seems to know how to do crossovers between 40K and Heresy without McNeill's monotonous re-using of characters. That was one of the biggest disappointments of Magnus' Primarch novel: the senior officers of two legions were unchanged, it seems, from Primarch Day One to the Heresy. Kind of violates the rule about believing in the impossible but not improbable.

 

On balance, I'd say this is my second-favourite of the Primarch novels so far, after Perturabo's story. It was nice to see the III Legion and the Phoenix at their best during Great Crusade; it retroactively makes Fulgrim and their downfall seem more tragic. Also appreciated an actual description of the II Primarch too :)