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Primarch Book 5 - Lorgar: Bearer of the Word

JH79

By JH79
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Tymell Veteran

Tymell

Posted
Posted (edited)

I finished the book today, and all told I liked it a lot. As others, I have a couple of issues, but in all I think this is my second favourite of the Primarchs books.

 

It's firmly focused on Lorgar and Kor Phaeron, and their relationship. I like that we get a bit of focus on Kor Phaeron, since Erebus has so often had the limelight. He's a villain, but I'd argue not to cartoonish levels. He's self-serving, abusive, manipulative, but so are a lot of people, in both the setting and the real world, and even he has the occasional nicer moment. Nothing redemptive, but giving him a bit more flavour.

 

As Indefragable says, it's very much a biography, and the bulk of the book is about his years growing up, with the crusading mostly taking place in the last third or so. I actually didn't mind that the warfare side was glossed over, it didn't feel like this was the kind of story the book was trying to tell, and to be honest, it would've been predictable. When

 

Lorgar makes it to Vharadesh, I was fully expecting the usual Primarch-led battle scene. Enjoyable in a way, but entirely predictable. Then they present the slain rulers and join him, and I found that much better to read just because I didn't expect it. That, and it emphasises Lorgar's strengths as a preacher more than a straight-up war leader.

 

The characters were solid and I liked the book's use of religion and spirituality. It doesn't beat the reader over the head with it, nor does it feel like Gav is trying to push any pro or anti religion views. It all feels very tastefully done. If it carries any message (that I picked up anyway) it's that religion can be a tool for good or ill, depending on who is using it. But even that doesn't feel like it's being pushed particularly forcefully.

 

I can also see the Emperor kind of looking the other way with the religious side of Colchis and Lorgar, in the way they're portrayed here. It's there, but comparatively subtle. They revere the Emperor and consider him their supreme being, they're passionate and drive, but I don't think they ever actually use the term "God", they don't talk about him being their maker, etc. And while we do know that when Kor Phaeron refers to "the powers" he's talking about the Chaos gods, it never feels overtly Chaos-y either. It's just the old faith, and more of it's true nature will come to light later, in The First Heretic.

 

My only major gripe is the ending:

 

Specifically Nairo's fate. I guessed he was going to meet some kind of unpleasant end since he's directly opposed to Kor Phaeron, but it happened very suddenly and without much build, within that scene at least. Nairo just suddenly draws a knife and goes for him, and after that, Lorgar smashes him down and then just proclaims that the Emperor is coming. Nairo going for Kor Phaeron and Lorgar brutally putting him down for it, I have no problem with either of those things. But a bit more build of Nairo growing increasingly frustrated and his conflict with Kor Phaeron reaching boiling point would have been good, as would Lorgar seeming a bit more shaken by what he did.

 

Still, a good entry into the series and a very pleasant surprise from an author new to these characters. For me, thus far, I'd say:

 

Perturabo > Lorgar > Leman Russ > Magnus > Guilliman

Edited by Tymell
R_F_D Battle-Brother

R_F_D

Posted
Posted

Phew, I'm glad it wasn't just me - thought I hadn't had enough coffee!  Although there was a little bit of me thinking that it would be kind of cool if Lorgar had returned to his first compliance 10,000 years later to finally undo it.  That after 10,000 years Monarchia still hurt.

 

I finished it this morning, this was the easiest Gav Thorpe book I've read (something in the HH doesn't sit right with me) but certainly one of the most enjoyable. 

  • 2 weeks later...
Izlude Battle-Brother

Izlude

Posted
Posted (edited)

Just finished reading this one. I have to say I went into the book little hesitantly mostly due to the fact it really was ADB who defined Lorgar in the HH timeline. I went from thinking Lorgar was some warrior priest demon guy to someone with depth and one of my more favorite traitor primarchs based on all of ABD's books. I have enjoyed most of Gav's works so I did have an open mind, I have to say I really liked the book alot. This book is as much as about KP as it is about Lorgar. The things I liked about it:

 

1. KP: There is no question, KP is perhaps one of the most evil self-serving scum bags in the 40k universe. I know there are people who dislike the "cartoon mustache-twirling" bad guy which honestly KP is more of compared to many others. I do like that main traitor characters we all know and love (Khârn, Ahriman, etc) have redeeming qualities and thus are likeable in some ways. I mean this more in the HH timeline (It sounds like they are all scumbags in the 40k setting :@). There is really nothing redeeming about KP, but I am okay with that and enjoy some good "what a complete #!&@" characters as well. There is no doubt KP and Erebus tie for biggest douch-bags but I like that.

 

2. Lorgar: One thing I really like with this one that other Primarch's novels don't do is get into the childhood. We really see this here and the impact of Lorgar being raised by KP. I know people sometimes debate the whole "nurture vs nature" with Primarchs. What would happen if Guilliman was raised on Colchis and Lorgar on Macragge? Etc etc. I think Gav really portrays this sense that the Primarchs were sort of "primed" to be what they are and probably matters less of where they grew up. I am sure the Lion would still being a mysterious dic head even if he ended up on Terra herself (I mean that with love...I like the Lion).   

 

3. Colchis: I do like the "religious" vibe that Gav has built, you get this great sense of religious overtone in this world but you don't get burdened by it if you know what I mean. 

 

4. Bolter-porn: Bolter porn it is not and I love that. One thing I really wanted out of this series was more character building and interactions (part of the reason I disliked RG Primarch book so much which felt more of orc bolter porn). I do appreciate a good head exploding from X (X being bolter, power axe or mace in this case) as the next person but glad it was more about Lorgar's growth and journey. I also appreciated the "side" stories with the Purge as well.

 

Having read all of them so far, I would say I rank this book up there with Russ and Perturabo. Recommend highly and props to Gav for stepping it up on this one. 

 

To quote Marshall Loss earlier in this thread which I love and is so true:

 

 "I think he did a good job overall, even if the book should probably be called '200 pages of Kor Phaeron attempting to prove that he, not Erebus, is the ultimate dick in the universe.' 

 

I love that KP and Erebus are fighting to see who can be the biggest dick in the HH universe...I hope this struggle continues...it makes for good popcorn and enjoyment. 

Edited by Izlude
Sandlemad Veteran

Sandlemad

Posted
Posted

I have to second the positive reviews for this, it impressed me far more than I expected. It's a daring move on Gav Thorpe's part to write a novel that does not, at any time, get inside Lorgar's head; doubly so when it's an installation in a series specifically about the primarchs. That's at least partially because ADB's The First Heretic and Aurelian have already done that so bloody well but dang, this is what I wanted from more heresy novels after Horus Rising. Everything's through Nairo or Kor Phaeron's eyes and both of them have to constantly reevaluate Lorgar as his impossibly superhuman nature begins to show.

Despite being a more structurally conservative book than the previous primarch novels - in that it's 'just' a straightforward retelling of Lorgar's rise to power on his homeworld - it's actually pretty radical in avoiding the usual close third-person POV and denying us access to any of his inner thoughts. Worked brilliantly.

 

A lot of the points of interest have already been brought up but I'd like to mention the portrayal of chaos. This was surely the best and most restrained linking of a local/native chaos-derived faith to our out-of-universe knowledge about the dark gods. No one shouts blood for the blood god, no one pledges themselves to human misery as a goal. Even Kor Phaeron's 'dark heart' of old believers felt more akin to a term like the modern UK shadow cabinet rather than a name thought up by a cartoon villain.
 
I really liked the short prayer about half-way in, addressed to the powers (spoilered below).
 

"King of Storms, Lord of Blood,
Hear today our thanks for thy strength,
And thy protection from the conquests of the impure.
Queen of Mysteries, Lady of Fate.
Hear today our thanks for thy knowledge,
And thy watchfulness against the hazards of uncertainty.
Prince of Hearts, Sire of Dreams,
Hear today our thanks for thy inspiration,
And thy indulgences of our mortal ambitions.
Princess of Life, Mother of Hope,
Hear today our thanks for thy vigour,
And thy generosity in times of need and austerity."

 
There's plenty of examples in BL fiction of authors attempting to disguise or 'localise' the chaos gods, adding variation in the same way that the Emperor might be worshipped as a solar deity on some worlds and a high king on others, but here it was done particularly neatly. It foregrounds the positives and gives you a sense as to why someone might gladly worship them, as well as pushing the gods beyond their usual gendered portrayals. When we see the perennial "why would anyone worship Nurgle/Khorne" question, this would be a decent snippet to bring up showing how a worshiper from a particular feudal world could view the gods.
 
Even better, it's done with a light touch. The gods themselves are only mentioned by name a handful more times, they don't overstay their welcome and so you don't read the whole novel as 'blatant chaos society #1'.

Interestingly, then, what you wind up with is a portrayal of a more-or-less functional theocratic society based around the worship of chaos. It's a brutal post-apocalyptic world but it's hardly worse than Fenris or Medusa. They might not be as... let's say as 'awakened' to the truths of chaos as the CSM of the 41st millennium (i.e.e they're not eating babies) but it's still the dark powers they are worshiping, even if portrayed in local forms.
 
It's not major but I also loved the various little puns Thorpe slipped in. Thinking here of Lorgar being proclaimed the Urizen, literally translated as 'Architect of Faith', a title formerly held by the prophet Tzan.:biggrin.:  I see what you did there. Or "Kap Baha in the Parable of the Skywhale" as an example of a man obsessed with vengeance. Now that's how you smuggle M2 historical details into 30k.

mc warhammer Veteran

mc warhammer

Posted
Posted

 does not, at any time, get inside Lorgar's head; doubly so when it's an installation in a series specifically about the primarchs. That's at least partially because ADB's The First Heretic and Aurelian have already done that so bloody well but dang, this is what I wanted from more heresy novels after Horus Rising. Everything's through Nairo or Kor Phaeron's eyes and both of them have to constantly reevaluate Lorgar as his impossibly superhuman nature begins to show.

 

 

if that's the case, i think i'm going to enjoy this. i prefer that approach.

  • 3 weeks later...
veterannoob Veteran

veterannoob

Posted
Posted

Gav's interview part 1

http://traffic.libsyn.com/combatphase/Ep_220_-_Lorgar_wGav_Thorpe.mp3

We are back after a week off and Kenny is off to the Black Library Weekender. Here's part 1 of our interview with Gav Thorpe.

www.gavthorpe.co.uk

www.blacklibray.com

Tymell Veteran

Tymell

Posted
Posted

I’ve finished this one now.

 

Disappointed with this Novel. Nothing of any significance happens.

 

In the book that depicts the role of faith on shaping Lorgar's mindset and personality, the early, subtle influence of Chaos on the upbringing of the primarch that will ultimately bring Chaos to the legions, one of the Heresy's masterminds taking up position as his adoptive father, and basically the earliest seeds of the entire Horus Heresy being sown? That seems pretty significant :p

veterannoob Veteran

veterannoob

Posted
Posted

Great interview!  Didn't realise it was more than 1 part - thought my podcast player had cut out!

 

I'm sorry you're not going to be at the Weekender now @veterannoob :sad.:

Oh, me too. I've let a lot of people down too, I feel like. I'll never try WoW airlines again.

Mellow Battle-Brother

Mellow

Posted
Posted

 

 

I’ve finished this one now.

 

Disappointed with this Novel. Nothing of any significance happens.

In the book that depicts the role of faith on shaping Lorgar's mindset and personality, the early, subtle influence of Chaos on the upbringing of the primarch that will ultimately bring Chaos to the legions, one of the Heresy's masterminds taking up position as his adoptive father, and basically the earliest seeds of the entire Horus Heresy being sown? That seems pretty significant :p

I’ve no idea which book you read!

 

This one has just got a lot of people travelling around in caravans in the desert with one angry preacher being in the story because he is an extra bad preacher who secretly loves chaos even though it’s blatently obvious and no one seems to care enough to just kill him for being a moron.

 

Plus the author is especially famous for being a bit simple with his wordage!

Tymell Veteran

Tymell

Posted
Posted

 

 

I’ve finished this one now.

 

Disappointed with this Novel. Nothing of any significance happens.

In the book that depicts the role of faith on shaping Lorgar's mindset and personality, the early, subtle influence of Chaos on the upbringing of the primarch that will ultimately bring Chaos to the legions, one of the Heresy's masterminds taking up position as his adoptive father, and basically the earliest seeds of the entire Horus Heresy being sown? That seems pretty significant :tongue.:

I’ve no idea which book you read!

 

This one has just got a lot of people travelling around in caravans in the desert with one angry preacher being in the story because he is an extra bad preacher who secretly loves chaos even though it’s blatently obvious and no one seems to care enough to just kill him for being a moron.

 

Plus the author is especially famous for being a bit simple with his wordage!

 

 

If you didn't like it, fair enough, to each their own, but....that's not even close to an accurate description of the book. Even allowing for humourous hyperbole.

DarkChaplain Veteran

DarkChaplain

Posted
Posted

 

 

I’ve finished this one now.

 

Disappointed with this Novel. Nothing of any significance happens.

In the book that depicts the role of faith on shaping Lorgar's mindset and personality, the early, subtle influence of Chaos on the upbringing of the primarch that will ultimately bring Chaos to the legions, one of the Heresy's masterminds taking up position as his adoptive father, and basically the earliest seeds of the entire Horus Heresy being sown? That seems pretty significant :tongue.:

I’ve no idea which book you read!

 

This one has just got a lot of people travelling around in caravans in the desert with one angry preacher being in the story because he is an extra bad preacher who secretly loves chaos even though it’s blatently obvious and no one seems to care enough to just kill him for being a moron.

 

Plus the author is especially famous for being a bit simple with his wordage!

 

 

Kor Phaeron "being in the story because he is an extra bad preacher"? What? Kor Phaeron attracts attention and a following and manages to keep people in line until well into Lorgar's growth. He is hated, but respected as well. And... he is Lorgar's FATHER, his role is pretty clear from that alone. He's never been an extra tacked on for mustache twirling.

 

"Secretly loves Chaos"? The entire world has the "Powers" as their main religion. It's their christianity, with different sects but all centered on the same principles. And if you've read the book and paid attention (the latter I kinda doubt at this point), you'd have seen that "the Powers" are depicted far differently from the "Primordial Annihilator" that the Horus Heresy has shown us.

 

Kor Phaeron isn't being killed because he's a conduit for the religion that basically every single person on Colchis believes in. He speaks with religious authority and that holds significant weight. And yet he still is at risk in multiple instances and knows that he is reaching the limits of his authority. Did you miss the entire section where Lorgar has to save him from being strung up?

 

If your reading of the novel is that shallow, I don't think the problem is with Gav's "simple wordage", but your reading comprehension and attention span. Or maybe just the overwhelming cynicism.

Roomsky Veteran

Roomsky

Posted
Posted

I’ve finished this one now.

 

Disappointed with this Novel. Nothing of any significance happens.

 If I may, and this is without sarcasm, what you have preferred to happen? As one who doesn't really expect anything but character development from the series, its a position I don't really understand. What is Mellow's ideal Lorgar: Bearer of the Word?

R_F_D Battle-Brother

R_F_D

Posted
Posted

HeritorA has been excommunicated from the looks of it.  All I will say is that for the last month the level of discussion and debate has been awesome to watch and partake in.

 

On the topic of the existing gods on Colchis.  These were essentially a watered down version of the Chaos 4 or have I misinterpreted that?   

Mellow Battle-Brother

Mellow

Posted
Posted

 

 

I’ve finished this one now.

 

Disappointed with this Novel. Nothing of any significance happens.

If I may, and this is without sarcasm, what you have preferred to happen? As one who doesn't really expect anything but character development from the series, its a position I don't really understand. What is Mellow's ideal Lorgar: Bearer of the Word?

Well I thought the whole Shai-Hulud worm took the Micky a bit as did the whole desert people thing. It felt like Dune. With Caravans.

 

Plus we have a demi god that ended up twice the height of any human around (12 feet I would guess) being such a slave. Most of the other Primarchs defined themselves as leaders and whilst Lorgar did it felt like he was very weak which is not what I expect from one of the Emperors sons.

 

It would have been nice to skip ahead to some early Legion scenes with them doing something worthwhile and honourable. Instead of the treacherous scenes that were described.

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