Allies/Relationships.

[Ekim_Trub]

I have been trying to piece together (just to satisfy my own curiosity) which Primarchs & Legions were close/friendly with Corax & the Raven Guard and was hoping you guys could maybe enlighten me on anything I may have missed.

 

I know that Corax served beside Russ & the Rout- Russ was wounded iirc. So this would more than likely has established some sort of bond I would imagine.

Corax also seemed to be friendly with Guilliman from what I remember, with them playing battle games against each other & Roboute even adopting the Moritat unit from the Raven Guard along with Corax's use of 'non-traditional' fighting forces.

 

The only other Legion I know of the Raven Guard having a relationship with is the Imperial Fists contingment under Captain Noriz. Whether this led to a lasting bond with the VIIth Legion I am not sure.

 

Anyone I am missing? Or does that cover it so far?

[Shrieker]

As regards Imperial Fists

Norriz didn't make it back far enough to tell the tale

Corax has a right pop at Dorn in Deliverance Lost when seeking the Emperor on Terra. Don't think they get on.

 

It's a joke amongst Raven guard officers that Corax doesn't get on with his brothers

 

I think you covered it basically. from my own memories

 

Lorgar: 'Why oh Why didn't I kill him when I got a chance' (Aurelian)

Curze: 'He's like me, if I ever turn evil' (Deliverance Lost)

Horus: Corax went Christian Bale on Horus at Gate 42, 'You and me we're through professionally, bro' (Ravenlord)

Jagathai: not much said, the RG/WS rivalry postdates primarchs (Hunt for Voldorius)

Vulkan: Vulkan seem to see him as a close brother in Vulkan lives, though it is his view of the relationship, not Corax's (Vulkan Lives)

Ferrus: Not exactly bromance, IHs hold Corax in low esteem for withdrawing at Istvaan, instead of pressing forward to support Ferrus (various, Damnation of Pythos)

Magnus: not much said, RG mothballed their librarius when asked to, didn't support him at Nikaea (A thousand sons)

[Jacques Corbin]

I really think that any traitor legion and their primary is on Corax's :cuss list. Daemon Lorgar wants to come back? Well Kurze won't be there to save him this time.

 

I think Corax was fond of Vulkan. They, along with Sanguinus, are the most humanitarian of the Primarchs. Still, I doubt he ever showed it, towards anybody, in any way but his very own.

 

Anybody know how Corax and the Lion got along?

[Claws and Effect]

Dorn hates Corax's methods of warfare. Part of him considering any form of stealth or camouflage to be dishonorable or downright cowardly.

 

Mutual respect between Corax and Guilliman, but I don't know if I'd call them close.

 

Honestly, Jaghatai is the only Primarch more distant in interaction than Corax.

 

I think he and Lion would have gotten on fairly well though, providing neither is in a position to give the other orders. I get the feeling Lion might feel similar to Dorn about the whole stealth thing.

 

Ironically, the 2 brothers Corax would have gotten along the best with are both traitors, and one being howling nuts. (Omegon and Curze).

[Khine]

I'm fairly certain that Corax saw Russ as a glory hound. I know he was pissed off at least once that his legion was passed over for their achievements because they did their duty from the shadows. It might have been the Space Wolves but I have a feeling it was the Imperial fists or the world eaters.

I also remember that Corax was fond of Horus. Since he was one of the few that didn't think badly of his method of warfare.

[Kua]

Also consider that Primarchs and Corax during 30k may differ from legions and RG now in 40k.

[Race Bannon]

I agree, some opinions can change over 10,000 years. Some won't to be sure but ... C'mon.

[Bedouin2]

I believe Corax thought something fondly at first for Curze, since the pistol he uses he oringinally crafted it to gift to Curze, but the next time he incountered him he didn't like the vibe about him.

 

I think some respect is shown through him allowing Iron Warriors and a Night Lord to fight with his force after it all went to hell. I don't know if this is a reflection of how their primarch use to be... the only one he didn't give a chance was a Word Bearer, but it's understandable how he reacted to him given the still fresh memory of the massscre.

[Claws and Effect]

Corax liked Horus until the Gate 42 incident. After that he wanted .othing to do with him and refused to fight alongside him ever again.

[Filius]

I do think – but I haven't read all Raven Guard Lore yet – that Corax didn't go really very well with any of his brothers. He was the most intelligent of all of them. And he knew that. At least he knew because the Emperor gave him his information about the Creation of the Space Marines, to find a way to create Astartes faster, after the Dropsite Massacre. But I am pretty sure that he knew before, that he was more clever, than his brother. And he is rational and humble and melancholic. All in all I think, it would have made him feel uncomftable, when being close to his brothers, because he didn't want them to feel inferior and at the same time he didn't want to feel superiior himself, or, if he felt like that, he was ashamed of it, because he would have know, that he should be looking down on his brother, or even feel superior to them. I think he was a rational and (at the same time) brooding Loner, with a very strong sense of justice. That doesn't go really well together with most forms of brotherliness … imho.

 

P.S.: But I think, he would have gotten along the best with the Khan. They both were driven away from "the family" by the nature and they both had a very rational approach to warfare based on effectivness. Only where Corax prefered the Darkness, the Khan prefered the light. I like to think, that it's not a coincidence, that the Raven Guards wear black and the White Scars wear white. Plus: I think that the Khans Humor and Courtesy. They both would have been good for each other. But maybe that's just my wishful thinking …

 

Edit: Typos and P.S.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Filius

[Claws and Effect]

I don't necessarily think he was the most intelligent. Top 5 or so for sure, but more intelligent than everyone else? Not buying that.

 

Magnus, Perturabo, and Vulkan were around the same level. Probably Guilliman as well.

 

But when you're talking about any Primarch attributes the variance is the difference between the winner and loser of a professional drag race. Yeah, you won. By 0.004 seconds.

 

Least intelligent was probably Angron, but a lot of that was likely the Butcher's Nails melting his brain away, rather than him just being dumb in comparison.

[Kua]

Magnus, Perturabo, and Vulkan were around the same level. Probably Guilliman as well.

 

And don’t forget Alpharius, it makes two more.

[Jacques Corbin]

Dorn hates Corax's methods of warfare. Part of him considering any form of stealth or camouflage to be dishonorable or downright cowardly.

 

Mutual respect between Corax and Guilliman, but I don't know if I'd call them close.

 

Honestly, Jaghatai is the only Primarch more distant in interaction than Corax.

 

I think he and Lion would have gotten on fairly well though, providing neither is in a position to give the other orders. I get the feeling Lion might feel similar to Dorn about the whole stealth thing.

 

Ironically, the 2 brothers Corax would have gotten along the best with are both traitors, and one being howling nuts. (Omegon and Curze).

I agree that he and the Lion would have gotten along well, provided neither was giving orders to the other. Well, Corax, like Sanguinus, Khan, and Dorn, never wanted to rule the Imperium. The Lion, I think, would be wise enough to utilize the Raven Guard by letting them do what they do best. So maybe not an issue of Corax resenting his brother's orders, like he did with Horus. Both Corax and the Lion wage war their own way, but the Lion respects results over methods. I could also see Corax attempting to play peacemaker between Guilliman and the Lion after the Lion awakens, and there is the inevitable passing contest over who is in charge of the Imperium. Personally, I vote for the Lion, simply because he will drain the swamp of the Eccleiarchy, and the Inquisition will be taken over by the 1st Legion, to give the Neophytes something to do.

[Ekim_Trub]

Finally managed to sit down for 10 mi utes and compile what I have seen and my own thoughts on what Corax's (& thus, the Raven Guard's) relationship would be with each of his brothers.

 

Lion El'Jonson: Could see them getting along as they are both loners & have a sense of duty & loyalty that drives them. Corax would more than likely allow the Lion to take command of any joint operation, and I would imagine the Lion allowing the RG the freedom to operate in their preferred manner.

 

Fulgrim: I think Corax would see Fulgrim and his Legion as too extravagant in their approach to war.

 

Perturabo: Cannot envision these two getting along at all as their ideals & methodolgies are almost opposite each other. (Perturabo even once went as far as to accuse Corax of cowardice due to not wanting to conduct a sucidal frontal charge.)

 

Jaghatai Khan: Could see the two of them being very respectful of each others abilities, but the potential for disagreement is there because of the Khan's disregard for protocol/rules.

 

Leman Russ: They are known to have had a decent relationship with each other, with Russ acting as peacekeeper between Corax & Perturabo. Corax also came to the Wolves aid at Yarant.

 

Rogal Dorn:A lot of evident tension between the two with Dorn being very open in his disapprovement towards Corax's methods of war.

 

Konrad Curze: Corax would never approve of the extremes taken by the Night Haunter and the Night Lords, so would not get along with him. He would also see Kurze as a reminder of his own 'darkness within'- and how they could easily have swapped places had their upbringings been different.

 

Sanguinus: Is there anyone who dislike the Angel? Think they would of got along well and Corax would of respected his humanity & martial prowess.

 

Ferrus Manus: I know very little about the Gorgon, but feel that they may have at least been respectful of each other because they both showed a high sense of loyalty and duty.

 

Angron: Think Corax would regard Angron as a victim of circumstance, and hold him in a manner of respect, but ultimately would not share a kinship due to his bloodlust and unpredictability.

 

Roboute Guilliman: Shown to have respected and liked each other, with Guilliman even adopted some of Corax's unorthodox methods after playing war games against each other.

 

Mortarion: I believe Corax once questioned the Death Lord's closeness & loyalty to Horus directly with the Emperor himself, so I don't see them as ever having made a bond.

 

Magnus The Red: As Corax was never a big supporter of the Librarius project and the widespread use of Psychic abilities, I don't think they would of been close.

 

Horus Lupercal: It has been noted that the two never seen eye-to-eye, and after the Battle for Gate 42 that saw a great deal of casualties sustained by the Raven Giard upon the orders of the Warmaster- Corax reportedly struck Horus & refused to ever serve beside him again.

 

Lorgar Aurelian: Due to Lorgar's religious dogma, I wouldn't of thought the two of them would have gotten along.

 

Vulkan: It is my understanding that Vulkan regarded Corax as a close friend, which is something I could envision because they both showed a great deal of humanity.

 

Alpharius/Omegon: Think Corax would be too wary of the twins to form a kinship due to their deceptive ways/nature.

 

 

I may be wrong in my assessment of it all, but from what I have read so far & how I envision Corax in my head, I can only really see bonds being formed with Russ, Vulkan & Guilliman. Although I imagine he would be on good/respectful terms with others such as Sanguinus, the Gorgon and the Lion.

[SixOfOne]

Finally managed to sit down for 10 mi utes and compile what I have seen and my own thoughts on what Corax's (& thus, the Raven Guard's) relationship would be with each of his brothers.

Lion El'Jonson: Could see them getting along as they are both loners & have a sense of duty & loyalty that drives them. Corax would more than likely allow the Lion to take command of any joint operation, and I would imagine the Lion allowing the RG the freedom to operate in their preferred manner.

Fulgrim: I think Corax would see Fulgrim and his Legion as too extravagant in their approach to war.

Perturabo: Cannot envision these two getting along at all as their ideals & methodolgies are almost opposite each other. (Perturabo even once went as far as to accuse Corax of cowardice due to not wanting to conduct a sucidal frontal charge.)

Jaghatai Khan: Could see the two of them being very respectful of each others abilities, but the potential for disagreement is there because of the Khan's disregard for protocol/rules.

Leman Russ: They are known to have had a decent relationship with each other, with Russ acting as peacekeeper between Corax & Perturabo. Corax also came to the Wolves aid at Yarant.

Rogal Dorn:A lot of evident tension between the two with Dorn being very open in his disapprovement towards Corax's methods of war.

Konrad Curze: Corax would never approve of the extremes taken by the Night Haunter and the Night Lords, so would not get along with him. He would also see Kurze as a reminder of his own 'darkness within'- and how they could easily have swapped places had their upbringings been different.

Sanguinus: Is there anyone who dislike the Angel? Think they would of got along well and Corax would of respected his humanity & martial prowess.

Ferrus Manus: I know very little about the Gorgon, but feel that they may have at least been respectful of each other because they both showed a high sense of loyalty and duty.

Angron: Think Corax would regard Angron as a victim of circumstance, and hold him in a manner of respect, but ultimately would not share a kinship due to his bloodlust and unpredictability.

Roboute Guilliman: Shown to have respected and liked each other, with Guilliman even adopted some of Corax's unorthodox methods after playing war games against each other.

Mortarion: I believe Corax once questioned the Death Lord's closeness & loyalty to Horus directly with the Emperor himself, so I don't see them as ever having made a bond.

Magnus The Red: As Corax was never a big supporter of the Librarius project and the widespread use of Psychic abilities, I don't think they would of been close.

Horus Lupercal: It has been noted that the two never seen eye-to-eye, and after the Battle for Gate 42 that saw a great deal of casualties sustained by the Raven Giard upon the orders of the Warmaster- Corax reportedly struck Horus & refused to ever serve beside him again.

Lorgar Aurelian: Due to Lorgar's religious dogma, I wouldn't of thought the two of them would have gotten along.

Vulkan: It is my understanding that Vulkan regarded Corax as a close friend, which is something I could envision because they both showed a great deal of humanity.

Alpharius/Omegon: Think Corax would be too wary of the twins to form a kinship due to their deceptive ways/nature.

I may be wrong in my assessment of it all, but from what I have read so far & how I envision Corax in my head, I can only really see bonds being formed with Russ, Vulkan & Guilliman. Although I imagine he would be on good/respectful terms with others such as Sanguinus, the Gorgon and the Lion.

Corax and Jaghatai didn't really get on with each other. They disagreed quite badly over each other's tactics. Corax saw Khan as too reckless and having a lack of strategical nuance, whereas Jaghatai saw Corax as being far too cautious for his own good. The Raven Guard and White Scars still don't really like each other into the 41st Millennium.

 

Corax and Ferrus got on pretty well. Corax, Ferrus and Vulkan found that they worked really well together and campaigned after the Battle of gate 42 and before the Dropsite Massacre. Corax and Ferrus probably didn't get on as well as Corax and Vulkan, but there's most likely respect between them.

 

I honestly don't think Corax had much of a relationship with lots of his brothers, as ones like the Lion did their own thing. And they probably only met a few times. Mortarion and Corax did agree over Magnus and the Edict of Nikea though.

[Claws and Effect]

The Raven Guard and White Scars get along much better after Damocles. The rapport between Shrike and Kor'sarro Khan is a major reason why. They also discovered that their preferred tactics are very complimentary of each other.

 

I suspect that if and when they return Khan and Corax will get along much better in light of that.

 

Assuming one of them isn't a traitor.

[Ekim_Trub]

I did not know about the tensions between Corax and the Khan, although in hindsight, that makes complete sense.

 

The idea of either Corax or Jaghatai turning traitor doesn't sit right with me tbh, although I could understand if they went rebel in order to steer the Imperium back on to the course the Emperor set it upon.