WGPL: what's working, what's not?

[Karack Blackstone]

Hello, fellow kith and kin of the hallowed halls of Russ.

 

My WGPL's (Wolf Guard Pack Leaders, for those not aware) are currently equipped mostly as Storm Shield and Power Fist. I am seeing a great deal of feedback from those that have had a game or more that the WGPL with a Power Fist has become rather decidedly lackluster.

 

I don't want to have to potentially damage painted models, however, barring that, I will need some replacements.

 

I in the past did not like Combi-weapons as they were one shot only on the underslung weapon; that might have changed enough now with the rework of 8th Edition these days.

 

From the recent post about new Codex books by Christmas, I am wondering on another note if our actual 8th Ed. Codex will be out soon, as well.

 

Back to the WGPL's:

 

- What works "Best" and under what situations is that "best" considered to be said "best"?

- Are Thunder Hammers a solid replacement?

- Are Storm Shields worth it on a PA 1 Wound model? Likely not, what else might work instead?

- If I am using mainly Rhinos for my Grey Hunter packs, what is a solid all rounder loadout?

 

I have all my GH packs with 1 Meltagun; I need to get more models to be equipped with MG's, two per pack. I hear Plasma is worth it, I just don't like what rolling 1's will do. Is Str 7 all the time worth a Plasmagun still?

 

I hope this helps others like answers here should help me; also, please, this is for WGPL's for mainly GH and BC packs.

 

Thoughts, feedback, advice,..?

 

I like fluffy lists, however, I can never ditch the urge to try and win, and 8th is shaping up to be a really fluff driven edition. I just need to make sure that my GH and BC packs are performing well, including their WGPL's, thus this thread.

 

Go.

[Jarl Deathwolf]

My ideas for WGPL are largely untested - I haven't run any in this new edition yet - but I have been thinking that the old combination of combi-weapon and powerfist might be a strong contender again. It is a hefty price for that, however.

 

Frost Sword and Combi-(whatever the pack carries) are shaping up to be my favored choice. My reasoning is that a Frost Sword is somewhat cheap and its high AP means that it will more easily kill what the Hunters/Claws cannot take out through numbers alone. Though having a combi-flamer would be mighty helpful for overwatch. 

 

A storm shield could be good since it is very cheap on non-character models. Then again, having the leader of the pack (who we already had to pay extra for) step forward to take nasty strikes might be counter-productive. 

 

As for Grey Hunters, my plasma guns served me well. They overcharged and slaughtered a daemon prince at rapid fire range, though I suspect that plasma guns will be better served when there is source of re-rolls available. So I think melta guns for packs that will be charging ahead, and plasma guns for packs that will be rallying around leaders and spearheading counter-attacks.

 

I admittedly haven't been thinking much about Blood Claws since I've been too excited about everything else. Their leaders would likely need to be close-quarters orientated since thats where they SHOULD be fighting, so a Frost Sword and either Plasma Pistol or Storm Shield would be my choice. 

[Valerian]

 

Back to the WGPL's:

 

- What works "Best" and under what situations is that "best" considered to be said "best"?

- Are Thunder Hammers a solid replacement?

- Are Storm Shields worth it on a PA 1 Wound model? Likely not, what else might work instead?

- If I am using mainly Rhinos for my Grey Hunter packs, what is a solid all rounder loadout?

 

A few thoughts on WGPLs.  I am so, so, fortunate that I modeled most of my WGPLs with Combi-meltas and Thunderhammers back in 5e.  Those were decent back then, but they're awesome now.  You just can't beat a Combo-weapon, since it essentially now an extra special weapon that you can put in every pack.   I can see absolutely no reason whatsoever not to have a Combi of one form or another on every WGPL in your army.  As everyone knows, with high-Strength and high-Damage, special weapons are the go-to workhorses for anti-vehicles and anti-monstrous creatures, and anti-Characters now, too.  I'd go with either Combi-Plasma or Combo-Melta - both really have their uses.  I'd never go with Combi-Flamers - they don't give you anything above and beyond what you'll already be getting with Boltguns or pistols and your Chainswords.  D6 auto hits just isn't worth the bother, and certainly not the opportunity cost of missing out on, say, a Combi-Melta that can threaten everything in the game.

 

Now that you get to pick your own casualties, I don't see any reason to put a Storm Shield on a 1 wound model.  It just isn't worth the investment.  Just apply wounding hits to your "meat shields," and load your WGPLs up on offensive weaponry (like those Combi-weapons).

 

For the close combat weapon, I really like the Thunderhammers.  It's a -1 to hit, but a flat 3 wounds in Damage, so you'll average 3 wounds to something every Fight phase (more if you have a nice buff aura nearby).  Like Melta, Thunderhammers are a legitimate threat to everything in the game.  If I were an enemy Character, I would never hesitate to get into a fight with a pack with a Power Axe, but you bet I'd hesitate to charge in if I see they've got a hidden Thunderhammer in the unit.  Give the GHPL or BCPL a Power Axe, but give the WGPL a Thunderhammer.  I'd only use a Power Fist on them if you've already got them modeled and painted, and can't be bothered to swap them out.  Otherwise, there is no reason to go with the d3 Damage weapon, when the 3 Damage weapon costs the same; they could raise the price by 5 points, and the hammers would still be the better choice.

 

I have all my GH packs with 1 Meltagun; I need to get more models to be equipped with MG's, two per pack. I hear Plasma is worth it, I just don't like what rolling 1's will do. Is Str 7 all the time worth a Plasmagun still?

 

Plasma is still good.  It is really, really, good, if you maintain a re-roll to hit buff aura for the unit, where you can Overcharge at your leisure.  I would otherwise only Overcharge in a dire emergency, when I figure I'm going to lose the model in the opponent's next turn anyway.  Even when you don't overcharge, Plasma is still worth the points, for the high-Strength and decent AP value.  They'll certainly help you mow down heavy infantry, and help knock off the odd wound or two against vehicles, etc.  I've got two 6-man packs of Hunters with a Plasma gun each, and I've got two Combi-plasmas on my WGTDA pack.  I also have lots of Plasma pistols spread throughout my army, and need to build two more basic Hunters with Plasma pistols.

 

However, Melta is my go-to special weapon of choice in my Hunter packs, since they can threaten anything in the game.  They'll be fighting up close anyway, and can now split fire with no restrictions, so having the Melta is never a waste.  

 

Anyway, these are a few of my thoughts on your questions.  Great topic, by the way.  Hope it was helpful.

 

V

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

For the budget option melee choice, the frost sword is hard to beat. Strength 5 is pretty nice cersus alot od targets and -3 AP is rockin, and at 7 points it's hard to beat.

[Gherrick]

It always a rough choice for me between frost sword and wolf claw. Overall, I think the reroll wounds is better, but it is 2 more points.

[Karhedron]

I agree, Power Fist is too hard (and expensive) to use on a 2A model with WS3+ and a -1 to hit penalty. Same problem for Thunderhammers. I am going to be putting these weapons in units where I can keep a source of rerolls handy.

 

In earlier editions, it was a good plan to keep the odd power fist handy in case you ran into a Dreadnought or something, at least you would have a chance to damage it. Now that anything can damage anything else, this is less of an issue.

 

I agree that Wolf Claw or Frost Sword are probably the best CC weapons. For shooting, I think that plasma pistol or combi weapon is probably the best choice although ideally you would want to double-down on whatever special weapons the squad they are leading have.

[Karack Blackstone]

So, after the posts thus far, here's some of my thinking:

 

- TH or Chainsword: TH is 3 Wounds, Chainsword grants an extra attack, while WGPL base if I recall correctly is 2. TH seems the better option here.

- Combi-Melta, maybe some Combi-Plasma instead; I have no packs with Plasmaguns as they were never worth the roll of a 1 to me previously. With the new edition, I might make some Plasmagun GH's now, and have some dual Plasma, dual Melta packs, so that I am now able to use the two real combi choices, -Melta, and -Plasma.

- I'm thinking of either keeping my WGPL with BP's, maybe if it's worth it, PP's, if for no other reason than when I recalculate my full Logan GC and see where I sit in 8th it might be worth it.

 

So, for those so inclined, quick summary: TH, Combi-Melta or -Plasma, and either BP or PP on each of my new WGPL's. My old ones are painted and damn well, just not by me. So, is it Vanguard Veterans or Sternguard Veterans that come with the Combi options?

[Valerian]

Sternguard Veterans would have them.  

[Anarnii]

I'm going with a mainly wolf guard army but thinking of going with a 10 person grey hunters pack with 2 plasma for mid field object camping. How does everyone feel about frost sword, combi plasma and terminator armour on the WGPL?

[Karhedron]

How does everyone feel about frost sword, combi plasma and terminator armour on the WGPL?

Pretty solid loadout that suits the unit well. Possibly the TDA is overkill but if you have the points, why not. I usually put my infantry in Rhinos or Razorbacks but if you are running that unit as foot-sloggers then TDA has no problems. Don't forget that one Hunter can also replace his bolt pistol with a plasma pistol which is quite cheap and provides an extra plasma shot within 12" and in CC.

[wilkco]

I have a game this Friday going to try an see if upgrading to a terminator with SS and TH  helps the pack survive more as you can now decide which model takes the wounds so a plus +3 invul save should made it interesting  will make objective securing a lot better as it will be very hard to snipe you out plus gives you some nice attacks if  you get into CC

[Karack Blackstone]

So, wait a sec...

 

I need a little guidance here: WGPL's for GH packs are armed with a Chainsword and a BP; how are they able to have three weapons?

 

Please advise, I will never cheat willingly, so, is this in the FAQ, or somewhere else?

[Valerian]

Yeah, just two weapons for the WGPL, but I'm not seeing anywhere above where anyone was suggesting more than that.

[Valerian]

Oh wait, I found it in your summary. Yeah, if you take the Combi, you can't also keep the Bolt Pistol.

[Karack Blackstone]

I see that mistake; what I don't see is how people are getting BP/CS/CS on their WGPL's, as in, Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Chainsword.

 

I am fine with taking only a Combi-Plas or -Melta, a TH and a Chainsword, if that's legal.

 

That's the more important question to me right now, sorry about not being clear before this post.

[Rune Priest Jbickb]

On the pack leader you can't take CSCSBP, it's not an option. On the regular wolf guard squads you can however.