Chapter Focus - Iron Hands

[BassWave]

In one of the latest warhammer community posts about the loadouts for the redemptor, they showed the machine empathy strategem. Its one command point and it affects one vehicle.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/07/25/top-3-builds-for-the-redemptor-dreadnought-july25gw-homepage-post-2/

[WarriorFish]

To get the most from it you'd want a vehicle festooned with heavy guns as well as the right moment but it feels like that CP would be better saved for one of those make or break re-rolls or something

[Iron Hands Fanatic]

Not gunna lie, machine empathy doesn't sound very Iron Hands...needs more brutality

[Iron Father Ferrum]

To get the most from it you'd want a vehicle festooned with heavy guns as well as the right moment but it feels like that CP would be better saved for one of those make or break re-rolls or something

 

Actually, sounds like something to use on an overcharged plasma cannon on a Dreadnought.  Since modifiers are applied before determining Gets Hot, a moving Dread firing plasma on overcharge mode overheats on a 1 or 2 rather than just a 1.  Apply stratagem, that's back down to just a 1 and if you've got a Captain nearby, you can reroll that 1.

[Saint_Michael]

 

To get the most from it you'd want a vehicle festooned with heavy guns as well as the right moment but it feels like that CP would be better saved for one of those make or break re-rolls or something

 

Actually, sounds like something to use on an overcharged plasma cannon on a Dreadnought.  Since modifiers are applied before determining Gets Hot, a moving Dread firing plasma on overcharge mode overheats on a 1 or 2 rather than just a 1.  Apply stratagem, that's back down to just a 1 and if you've got a Captain nearby, you can reroll that 1.

 

 

So, dreads for days and just keep a captain nearby for when you're going to burn the sky with plasma.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

That's my plan.  My first-blush 2K list is three Venerables and an Ironclad, scouts, two MSU plasma-Tac squads in Razorbacks, two TFCs, a Hunter (dat Skyspear, yo!), a Libby, a Techmarine, and a Captain whose going to take the Shield Eternal and walk up the field with the heavy metal.

[BassWave]

The strategem is really useful for predators and all the FW vehicles. They have enough guns to make using a command point worth using. I'm sure it will be useful on the plasma redemptor for the reasons IFF explained.

[WarriorFish]

So, dreads for days

 

That's my plan.

When wasn't it the plan?

[DJMoose]

 

So, dreads for days

 

That's my plan.

When wasn't it the plan?

White Scars.

 

Topic wise I watched a Space Marine codex review on Miniwargaming and their battle report to go along with it.  Command Points are the new resource that you very much want to invest in.  Some of the new stratagems are fantastic, like the ability to get a round of shooting at a "deep striking" enemy unit for 2CP, or some of the special abilites from 7th edtion formations have been made into stratagems, like the triple vindicator mega blast.

 

So the Iron Hands Warlord Trait is not that bad, actually.  Whenever you roll a 6+ to hit in the shooting phase, you can make another attack with that same weapon.  The extra attacks do not themselves generate extra attacks of course, but that is not too shabby.  Probably still going to take the Iron Resolve warlord trait though, that gives you +1 Wound and a 6 to ignore a wound.  So your Iron Hands warlord would basically have the same save an Iron Hands Venerable dreadnought has.  So, more tanky, or more killy in the shooting phase.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Put me down for "tanky," please.

[WarriorFish]

Tanky looks so nice I wonder if you'd pick anything else! :P

[Timur]

I've just finished playing with the new rules (I will update my army list post), and OMG, I'm surprised at how effective Iron Hands CT and strats are.  I honestly was bummed and envied RG, Sally's, and the UM warlord trait.

 

@patrol (500pts) used 2 CP one turn to activate relentless on a Assaultback, and dread w/ capt. re-roll.  It was bloody. also used the last CP to re-roll an objective D3

 

Same strat @ 1500 with even more deads!!

 

The 6+ save is good for keeping the dreads and char. rolling. Works well with a techmarine on bike backing them up.

 

And I third or fourth the tanky IH captain.  Mine is on a bike w/ shield eternal and is the thunder hammer artist formerly known as Smash@%&$er.

2 6+ 3++ +1W T5 halves dmg. taken=)

[Teun135]

I've played about 4 games with the new CT and stratagems now... the Iron Hands performed extremely well in all of them. To the point where it felt like I was being unfair to my opponents... Iron Hands Primaris in cover is incredibly hard to dislodge with shooting. Even in combat they are hardly slouches. Reivers deploying with Grav Chutes are a beautiful thing. It often lets you target weak spots in the enemy line before they can shift to react. 5 Reivers took out something around 20 termagaunts and a number of genestealers before being cut down by a wrathful Broodlord. In another game, they tore down a DA tactical squad, took a charge from Ezekiel and an Interrogator Chaplain with some tactical cronies, only taking a few casualties in the process. On my turn  just fell them back and let the Hellblasters take out the characters.

 

Playing against Dark Eldar was really unfair. None of their tricks really benefited them against my Primaris marines, when deployed in cover with good table control. That, and my copious Hellblaster usage made their light vehicles evaporate. Most of my casualties were self-inflicted from the overcharge, which I got no save against...

 

Even the Captain in Gravis has done well for me. I have used the stratagem to upgrade to a Chapter Master (Iron Father) every time, and never have I felt that the points were wasted... the ability to re-roll all failed hits for both himself and everybody around him is well worth the investment. I won't be surprised if they up the cost of it in the future. It makes the Gauntlet he has much more appealing. I use it a lot more often, knowing that I am hitting on 3+ with rerolls makes it very much worth it for Character slaying. I've been going for tanky as well, with Iron Resolve. I mean, it's got Iron right in the trait name, so what else was I gonna pick?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

While I don't share your enthusiasm for the Primaris, I'm happy you're doing well with your Hands.  Keep at it!

[Shuul]

After around 4 games I had I still feel that our CT is underwhelming. Maybe its due to the tendency in my meta for competitive lists (ETC-grade nonsense).

I simply cannot make it work, as the sheer firepower of enemies simply annihilates my squads (I use devastators), even if I'll roll 3-4 6's for FNP it is not enough to withstand shooting from 3-4 stormravens / 6-7 venerable dreadnoughts with double ACs accompanied by Guilliman / 8 Eldar serpents with aeldari missile pods (its as heck mode is a blast) etc. etc.

I loose 4-5 infantry squads per turn and FNP doesn't help an inch. Thinking to switch to Raven guards.

 

P.S. also, Primaris marines do nothing at all, as most of the games are played with Maelstrom missions - they simply do not have required mobility / firepower for this. And they die too quickly from 2-damage guns.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Shuul

[Timur]

I think the secret to IH this edition is spamming dreads.  I have switched to using a couple min tacs w/ assaultbacks and 5 scouts w/ rifles and some devs.  Everything else is a char. on a bike or a T7-8 vehicle/dread.  I also sneak in some vanguard w/ 3 storm shields when I can.  Our CT seem to boost high Wd and high T models, especially w/ a techmarine, or apothecary if you are rocking centurions or some such.

 

I don't think a mass of troops fits our CT as much as other chapters.

 

I haven't faced grandpappy smurf yet, but I guess you could invest CP into getting a chapter master and some LT's for more re-rolls.

 

I too use Devs.  They are one of my mainstays.  Usually, I have no problems with them as they are in the way back in cover.  (I rock LC 3x ML) The only time they really get ganked for me is by a deepstrike and 9" charge.

 

Can confirm sally's CT is not funny at all=(.  That's alot of re-rolls.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I think the secret to IH this edition is spamming dreads.

 

Yup.  Venerables and Ironclads, I think.  Ven Dreads get three saves (armor, Venerable, Chapter Tactics) and Ironclads are T8, which is a very important stat.  If only we have Venerable Ironclads, because those would be amazing. Alas.

[Timur]

Don't discount the Redemptor and Contemptor. 

 

I use a Contemptor from 500pts to 2k.  I love it.  Great stat line, fast, kheres is best assault cannon.  5++ save, plus 6+ Wd. save.  I have a techmarine on bike so the Contemptor gets to use his high stats most of the game. 

 

Redemptor with both onslaught cannons and SBs kick out a stupid # of shots.  Enough to drill even another vehicle, not just mobs w/ that rate of fire. 11W and 6+ wd. save, fast too.  Also can CC if it gets charged.   

 

I think ven. dreads look good too, but I can never find the 20 something points for that upgrade, though I have turned my capt into a ven. dread kinda.  (Iron Will trait).

 

The price drop to the Ironclad is one of the best things to happen to IH's lists=).

[Teun135]

The trick to playing Primaris right now (at least until Repulsors are out) seems to be using them in the same way you would a gunline, albeit a shorter-ranged one. Hellblasters with both a Chapter Master and a Lieutenant are a must, as it maximizes the output from those squads. You can reliably overcharge the the plasma that way and still expect something in the range of 80% of your shots to hit. 10 S8 shots that are -4 and 2 Damage are nothing to sneeze at, especially against elite targets such as terminators. With the LT rerolling 1's to wound, you make it very hard to not get those wounds off.

 

Primaris are susceptible to 2 Damage fire, however I think our CT go a long way towards mitigating that weakness. Many times I would suffer 2 damage on a Primaris, and roll a six out of the two wounds, keeping him in the game another round. Paired with Apothecaries, I wager this is going to be a pretty substantial bonus. I think it will be much more reliable than Ancients have been.

 

The other way to go with regular marines, is to spam lascannons for the big targets and high-shot-volume for the small targets. Medium-strength shooting just isn't as critical as it was in the last edition. I advocate that you mix in some Laserbacks in with those assaultbacks. Throw in a landraider if you have the points, you wont' be disappointed. A techmarine as well, if you have one. Also predators are very good now, so make use of the extra lascannons they can take in addition to their much-improved main autocannon.

[BassWave]

Interesting development. There are a few relics that don't require you to swap something out. Only restriction is that it goes on a character. The armor indomitus can therefore be given to a chaplain dreadnought for a 2+ save and a one time 3++.

[Panzer]

Now that's a durable dreadnought. o_O

[Shuul]

As I see it its an oversight form FW, as codex was not present during the Indexes release.

[Extropian]

So...how durable can we make it?

 

Venerable iron Hands Chaplain Dread with Armour Indomitus and the tanky Warlord trait (i forgot the name...the +1w and 6+ FNP one).

 

2+ save, 3++ for a turn, 6+ venerable FNP, 6+ Iron Hands FNP, 6+ Warlord trait FNP, +1 wound.

[Shuul]

So...how durable can we make it?

 

Venerable iron Hands Chaplain Dread with Armour Indomitus and the tanky Warlord trait (i forgot the name...the +1w and 6+ FNP one).

 

2+ save, 3++ for a turn, 6+ venerable FNP, 6+ Iron Hands FNP, 6+ Warlord trait FNP, +1 wound.

 

Not the best idea, as he will become 10 wounds and so enemy will be able to shoot it anytime.

[Extropian]

Damn, foiled! Good point, though he could certainly soak up some shots.