Chances and thoughts on Deathwatch codex in 8th?

[Leif Bearclaw]

 

...a whole library of frustrating 'why can't I take this option' types design decisions. What had the opportunity to be an immense, characterful release full of fun toys became probably the most anaemic and disappointing release I've experienced in 20-odd years of the GW hobby. And the 8th ed index didn't nothing to change my mind.

 

 

What "why can't I take this?" options do you mean? 

I'm only new to DW in 8th ed, but to me it looks like nearly any model in a killteam can take nearly any weapon or upgrade? 

 

Primarily it's characters. But things like no Heavy Thunder Hammers for Blackshields/Sergeants. No sergeants in Vanguard/Bike squads (all to serve the kill team concept, which just didn't work except with Vets and Termies). No bolt pistols on veterans (7th edition, remember, I think you can technically take them now, but why not have them default, like every other SM?). No special ammo on Storm Bolters. No model for the melta fist other than the Overkill Salamander dude. A captain can only take a relic blade if he's in terminator armour (but that's his only weapon option, not even a combi). No Bike Captain. No lascannon/plasma gun razorback. No Apothecaries. No Techmarines. No autocannon Dreadnoughts. No Ironclad Dreadnoughts. No bike/Jump Pack Librarian. No Jump Pack/Bike/TDA Chaplain. No power fists for Chaplains. Very limited, if any access to Strom Shields for characters. Basic things all the Marine Chapters who send men to the Deathwatch can do, but the supposed 'elite of the elite' can't? It's BS, and is a solid 75% of why I soured on DW (the other 25% being wasted potential, lack of new cool toys, and not being able to work out how to keep an army of expensive MEQs on the table in the 7th meta).

 

I realise that rumours say a lot of this is becoming SM standard in the 8th ed dex, and I hate that too, it's already bleeding what enthusiasm I'd mustered about 8th.

 

Edit: Accidentally quoted twice.

Edited July 25, 2017 by Leif Bearclaw

[bluntpencil]

"Why can't I take this?" refers to Apothecaries, Tech Marines, Ancients, Champions, Combi-Gravs, Jump Packs for characters, etc etc.

[Adeptus]

I can understand not having Champions or Ancients, the rest is a bit weird though.

[bluntpencil]

Deathwatch have Champions in the fluff. They also have banners in their Codex, but no way to field them.

[Irbis]

They also have Vanguard sergeant with Relic blade plastered in front of their Vanguard box, and specifically mentioned in instructions and 'how to build' videos. In 7th, Vanguard DW had no sarges nor relic blades, in 8th they are now forced to take Vanguard sarge but he still can't be armed with huge, pretty bit from the sprue

[Moostick]

Well, most of us figured this was the case, but now it's 100% confirmed. Every unit in a detachment must be from the same Chapter to use Chapter Tactics, or no one gets to use them.

 

Goodbye, my Predator. You were loved.

 

Edit: Forgot to say what we can't use.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Moostick

[LordCommanderSamirus]

You should still be able to use your Predator as a Deimos Pattern Relic Predator. At least until the next time FW says you cant.

[Macabre Slanneshi Prince]

You can still use your predator, it's not like Deathwatch have any tactics to lose.

[Adeptus]

Remember you can still staple multiple detachments together in a single army.

[Ania Redfang]

Bring the predator for -1 command point if you'd like.

[Adeptus]

Deathwatch have Champions in the fluff. They also have banners in their Codex, but no way to field them.

Well, yeah, but I can understand why a chapter comprised of marines from other chapters wouldn't feel the need to have things like champions and banner bearers.

[Moostick]

Yeah, I'm not going to handicap myself just to bring one.

 

It will forever be a enshrined though.

[LordCommanderSamirus]

Yeah, I'm not going to handicap myself just to bring one.

 

It will forever be a enshrined though.

 

 

The Relic Predator has the same options.  You'd need a Land Raider as well I suppose to fill the requirments of the "Relic" part.  

[Moostick]

 

Yeah, I'm not going to handicap myself just to bring one.

 

It will forever be a enshrined though.

 

 

The Relic Predator has the same options.  You'd need a Land Raider as well I suppose to fill the requirments of the "Relic" part.  

 

 

I looked this up and this is indeed a good idea. The downside is that this version is 15 points more, but literally only gets +1W and is a "Relic". It is actually considered an Elite and not a Heavy for whatever reason, so I'm actually good with the roles, but the +15 points kind of hurts. Now the real question is how much I really love my Predator.

[Count Douclar]

After seeing a review of grey knights on youtube (there's a guy that just goes through the codex), it looks like they got a bunch of units previously not available, such as space marine fliers, chaplain and grand master in dreadknight. This gives me hope that they will do the same for deathwatch and add all the stuff are missing (without taking primaris). 

[Prot]

 

Deathwatch have Champions in the fluff. They also have banners in their Codex, but no way to field them.

Well, yeah, but I can understand why a chapter comprised of marines from other chapters wouldn't feel the need to have things like champions and banner bearers.

 

 

I was thinking about this but I truly believe that fluff wise there is definitely substantial evidence to support the use of an Ancient. Most of you know many of the Deathwatch are from specific Fortresses. Mine for instance hail from Ultramar, and they border some nasty Xenos types, protecting Ultramar from Tau and Nid incursions.

 

Each of these Fortresses have specific banners that show symbolism of Deathwatch and geographical details including symbols marking the Fortresses. Some of these Deathwatch have been with the same Fortresses for 100's of years.

 

 

 

After seeing a review of grey knights on youtube (there's a guy that just goes through the codex), it looks like they got a bunch of units previously not available, such as space marine fliers, chaplain and grand master in dreadknight. This gives me hope that they will do the same for deathwatch and add all the stuff are missing (without taking primaris).

 

For sure. We keep seeing the great artwork showcasing Deathwatch Primaris. The codex in 7th was a massive, rushed and obviously rushed solution for a dying edition. I don't want to sound bitter here but I bought into -everything- Deathwatch. The formations, books, all the kits, collectors editions and never foresaw the convoluted mess that DW would become ( and still is today).

 

I don't want to regret saying this, but the 8 th edition codex has yet another golden opportunity to correct what 7th ed, the FAQ's, and the 8th ed Index never did.

 

I expect relevant and logical, easy to use chapter tactics. I expect a wide ability to select Forgeworld stuff, also squads that make sense. Transport options that make sense, and even ant Xenos librarian related abilities.

[Vel'Cona]

In regard to adding C: SM units to the "non-codex" chapters, it's a tough balancing act for GW because they want the codex chapters to maintain some differences from the others (to give them some unique toys) but they don't want to needlessly restrict the non-compliant chapters either.  I have a feeling this will always be on a codex-by-codex standard, though the GK release is a good indicator that we may see things open up for DW in the future.

[Moostick]

Our chances of a 2017 release are dwindling. With AM announced, there are only 5 spots left. There has to be 2 or 3 for Xenos, so that leaves us at worst with 2 chances, but then BA will likely be before us for Imperium and I imagine IG will get one before us as well. We have, at best, a 1 in 8(?) chance now.

[TheSauce]

I think the odds are better for point adjustments in the "Chapter Approved" release? Just a few adjustments could leave us in a much better place.

[Boyadventurer]

I'm not sure it's out of the realm of possibility. GK felt like an odd one to throw in wave 2. *Maybe* as antithesis to CSM, but then going alongside Daemons would have been better. I don't know if there's much rhyme or reason behind the schedule. CSM makes sense for sure with Konor going on, SM and DG of course with the new lines, but GK and AdMec just kinda feel like randoms. At least the one thing going for DW is that it won't be a huge codex, so hopefully that would make it easier to slip in early ;)

 

I just really want to know if Primaris are getting SIA or not. Between that and (FINALLY!) the Forge World support, I'd be happy enough waiting til closer to the end of the codex run.

[N00BST4R]

I don't see them giving Primaris SIA unless they're planning, and hopefully, making SIA a per unit added cost instead of the blanket increase.

[Moostick]

I definitely hope Primaris do NOT get SIA. That would be too much.

 

I guess the bright side to a late release is I can now buy more tanks and paint them in time. I really don't like painting vehicles.

[Scott_K]

Not only do I want to see Primaris get SIA, I also want to see them have access to combi weapons, special weapons, and heavy weapons.

[Boyadventurer]

I'd be okay with them getting their normal load outs if SIA is in the mix.

 

One thing I just got worried about: Stalker rifles. I doubt they'd keep 2 versions of the same gun in one codex. And, with the DW track record, our Heavy 2 version will probably get knocked down to be in line with the primaris stuff.

[N00BST4R]

Not only do I want to see Primaris get SIA, I also want to see them have access to combi weapons, special weapons, and heavy weapons.

Just curious - how much do you want them to cost?