Chances and thoughts on Deathwatch codex in 8th?

[Moostick]

Why stop there? They're probably faster, so give them 10" movement, tougher with T5, and so adept with their weapons that they ignore negative modifiers on To Hit with Heavy weapons.

 

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I really hope they don't make SIA a chapter tactic, That would mean it remains tied to each model, so we'll keep on paying that sweet tax when we swap out the bolter. Easy way would be to make it a unit upgrade, but the tax would remain in some cases. There might be a way to have it be an individual wargear, but it could end up being a nightmare to keep track of because people might start splitting bolters in the same unit that have or don't have SIA.

 

I can't think of a good way to do SIA unless, specifically for DW, they tie SIA point cost to eligible weapons, but then that creates another problem with our equipment costs not matching other factions. 2 point bolters and 1 point bolt pistols?

[Adeptus]

 

Now... according to the codex, some existing Space Marines have already been upgraded to Primaris.

 

I've seen this claimed a few times, but I don't have the codex myself. Can you quote the actual part of the codex that claims this?

You gotta advance the story,

 

No you don't. It's a setting, just like the Dark Ages or WWII are wargame settings. It doesn't need to advance or develop new tech at all.

[Xisor]

 

Now... according to the codex, some existing Space Marines have already been upgraded to Primaris.

 

 

I've seen this claimed a few times, but I don't have the codex myself. Can you quote the actual part of the codex that claims this?

I've been thinking the same. Looking at the IA in last month's WD, two of the three Primaris organs are inserted at slots 3 & 4 of the implantation process. E.g. after the biscopea. It wasn't clear if that was 'the earliest' they can be inserted, or the latest, the optimum or the traditional placing, however.

 

Perhaps we're looking at a Luther/Kor Phaeron sort of situation: they can be upgraded enough that they can plug into Mk X armour (ish), but they're still not fully formed Primaris?

[N00BST4R]

 

According to the fluff the Deathwatch are the best of the best, with the most advanced equipment the Inquisition can issue.  I would use the Intercessor profile with bolt rifles, Special Issue Ammunition as a Chapter Tactic for all Deathwatch, and adjust their profile to reflect this with WS2+, BS2+, SV2+.  I would increase their points cost to 25-30 points each.

 

So, if a basic Vet now costs 25-30pts...what do the Bikes, Vanguard, Termies cost...not to mention the HQ options?  It sounds awesome fluff-wise, but the viability of having the standard "troop" cost 25-30 isn't there when it comes to gameplay.  Not to mention that it almost negates the need for HQs with your suggested stat-line.

[Moostick]

EDIT: note that these are still just rumours, so take it as you will. I am curious what kind of stop gap they will do for us though.

 

With the rumours of points changes, our tactics will be affected again. They actually look fairly reasonable.

 

TL AC going up 9 points, Hurricane going up 6 and Razorbacks going up 5. Razorbacks needed this and the increase seems reasonable, but this negatively affects Corvus as well unless it gets a base cost reduction.

 

If these are true though, the Primaris changes are happening as expected. Make them kind of suck at release, curb the anger, then slowly buff them. Primaris may get a place in DW with their reductions. Inceptors being 45 each with the bolters makes them very attractive.

 

Not sure how they're going to rework DW though. They need a complete revamp of all our units and I don't think anyone can do it properly in the next month. If they actually pay attention to the community (HEY GUYS!), then they can see almost no one ever uses Terms or VVs, rarely bikers, and none of our unique items except FC. Lot of work to be done. If they royally mess it up in Chapter Approved, I'm afraid this can be the final straw for many in our faction. Even if they fix it in the codex, people may not look back.

Edited November 8, 2017 by Moostick

[Mobius0288]

Dude, don't hype the changes. Just wait for chapter approved, then be disappointed :)

[Moostick]

But I want to be disappointed now so I can convert to BT or BA!

[Prot]

Alleged changes also include point reductions for pods which I actually use with my Deathwatch. I guess someone convinced GW that they aren’t the omnipotent mega vehicle that they originally thought.

 

For me it’s a good thing if they simply trickle down the point decreases.

[sockwithaticket]

But I want to be disappointed now so I can convert to BT or BA!

Mate, if you're looking to avoid disappointment I'm not sure two named chapters GW doesn't seem to know what to do with are your best  back up plans!

Edited November 10, 2017 by sockwithaticket

[bluntpencil]

Alleged changes also include point reductions for pods which I actually use with my Deathwatch. I guess someone convinced GW that they aren’t the omnipotent mega vehicle that they originally thought.

 

For me it’s a good thing if they simply trickle down the point decreases.

I'm hoping for teleportation like Grey Knights get. Deathwatch used to have it, after all, sort of.

 

I hope Special Issue Ammo are powerful Strategems, with Veterans having the equivalent of Sternguns normally.

Edited November 10, 2017 by bluntpencil

[Kargrym]

What I would like to see after seeing what they have done in the past:

 

Reduce points in lots of places especially Artimis, storm shields.

 

Expand SIA wording to allow Terminators and Characters to use it. Be super sexy and give it to primaris.

 

Make Kill Team Cassius do something (characters!), or at least make Cassius unique.

 

Make the Heavy Thunder Hammer do something unique/awesome, make it a must have in an army.

 

Give wither the stalker pattern bolder have a sniper profile, or better yet give us a strat that gives a unit sniper.

 

Give Terminator equipped kill teams deep strike or make that a Strat.

 

Re-profile shotguns and infernus heavy bolters so that people would want them.

 

I liked the theme that we had in the 7th codex that allowed you to gain re-rolls with unit composition. allowing kill teams to re-roll wounds against type based on unit composition would be game changing

[Irbis]

But I want to be disappointed now so I can convert to BT or BA!

 

Give it a week and I bet with 90% certainty DW won't seem that bad in comparison and you wouldn't want to touch BA with ten foot stick

[Moostick]

 

But I want to be disappointed now so I can convert to BT or BA!

 

Give it a week and I bet with 90% certainty DW won't seem that bad in comparison and you wouldn't want to touch BA with ten foot stick

 

 

I'm hurt anyone would think I'd actually ever convert from the Watch. I'll be here, complaining the entire way until the end times. I took a quick look through the new Tyranid codex and I my first thought was that they're a better shooty army than us now.

[Prot]

Tyranids look to be a real meta changer. Last night a friend brought them over...wow. They are so incredibly fast that assault might actually enter 40k competitively.

 

I honestly don’t know what to do with my DW right now. I think I have to wait until chapter approved. I simply can’t seem to make them playable right now in my environment. I haven’t tried everything but it gets fatiguing.

 

The biggest hurdle for me is there are units I want to use very much for fluffy codex reasons and I simply can’t.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Tyranids look to be a real meta changer. Last night a friend brought them over...wow. They are so incredibly fast that assault might actually enter 40k competitively.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but how's that different from before?

 

That just sounds like a lot of the buzz when 8th dropped. 'Nids are so fast, how are shooting armies going to compete' and 'assault is competitive again'. Then some time went by, the new edition settled in, and it seems we're back with the shooting meta and the only guy I know with Nids benched them after a bunch of disappointing performances. What does the Codex do that the Index list didn't, to be such a game changer?

[bluntpencil]

Okay, wishlist for Stratagems:

 

From Codex: Space Marines and Grey Knights...

 

Orbital Bombardment

Teleportarium

Honour the Chapter

Relics

Auspex Scan

Only in Death Does Duty End

Wisdom of the Ancients

Hellfire Shells

Flakk Missile

Armour of Contempt

 

New:

 

Death to the Xenos! (As Death to the Traitors, but vs Xenos)

Bonds of Brotherhood (Automatically pass a Morale check) 1 CP

Surgical Strike (Unit may target characters, even if not closest this turn) 1CP

Xenos Psychology (Roll a die, on a 4+, Xeno opponent loses 1d3 CPs) 1CP

Phasic Rounds (Use instead of SIA. Models in unit using bolt type weapons get -3 AP and successful Invulnerable saves must be re-rolled). 2CP

Aquila Pattern Attack (As Masterful Marksmanship, applies to INFANTRY or BIKE units using bolters, twin bolters, storm bolters or Stalker bolters) 

Edited November 13, 2017 by bluntpencil

[Prot]

 

Tyranids look to be a real meta changer. Last night a friend brought them over...wow. They are so incredibly fast that assault might actually enter 40k competitively.

 

Forgive my ignorance, but how's that different from before?

 

That just sounds like a lot of the buzz when 8th dropped. 

 

 

I don't know about you, but a turn 1, 38" assault by Genestealers was something I never experienced last edition.

 

Note: I said MIGHT. That means it MIGHT change the meta. All I know is the games since 8th started have not threatened close combat til now.

[Moostick]

One thing I've learned from playing Tyranids is to deploy your units spread out. They move insanely and their ability to advance and charge makes them a huge threat.

 

I've always been assaulted by at latest turn 2, and a pack of genestealers or hormagaunts are large enough that they can tie up multiple units easily. Once they're tied up, they're pretty much out of the game. The only counter I've had success with were flyers and infernus predators, but it felt cheesy in anything 1k point and less, and it's not going to work on other armies in a tournament.

[Prot]

Agreed... I try really hard not to list tailor my games, but typically I can't since we randomly pair off in my groups/stores. In this case I know a few guys... at least 3 that have been dying for their Nids to get updated. 

 

I think this is its own thread though. So let's move it over to a new topic.

[PancakeEmperor]

I hope deathwatch get a codex in 8th, I don't actually have any but they seem like a cool 2nd army I could start collecting that's also outside the meta. But seriously, if they get a codex they need to have a chapter tactic that lets them re-roll failed saves of 1 or something, because they really need it.

[Thanatos31]

Deathwatch was confirmed to get a codex in 2018.

[MeltaRange]

Source?

[Thanatos31]

Confirmed by warhammer community team. Facebook replying to me.

[Vel'Cona]

Good enough for me!  Now we just have to stay patient for 2018 :)

[Thanatos31]

because I like you guys , I went through my entire timeline and found this ;)