8th Edition, 1st Month Thoughts

[Slave to Darkness]

As its a family forum I cant say what I think of 8th ed. 

If other people love it thats great, its good to see people coming back into the hobby. But for me? Id rather play stuff by Mantic games and I cant stand them. 7th was a better system IMHO. 

 

The new Deathguard minis look pretty sweet I must admit, might pick them up even though I cant see me getting much gaming in. 

[Sete]

 

 

Rule wise can't complain much.

Miniature wise however... Below expectations.

Because the Primaris models are very hit-and-miss?

Yep. I hope they expand the range on the classical look of terminators and assault squads for the Primaris.

 

They have a winning formula, they don't need to go crazy with reivers and inceptors shenanigans.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Sete

[MoK]

I've not actually played a game. Looking at the rulebook and Indexes/Codexes, I'm seriously unimpressed. The Traitor Legions book gave me hope that 8th might be the army rules I was waiting for, but alas, no. They gave us some awesome rules and then took them away. The Soace Marines Codex has made me quite sad, I'm hoping the Chaos Codex will excite, but from the sneak peaks I've seen, I can't see it.

I think I might give in to my wife's pressure and put ALL of my wargaming stuff in the loft. Been playing since Rogue Trader, sad, end of era. Shame as well coz these are some of the best models GW has produced.

[Adeptus]

What is it about the codexes/indexes that has left you disappointed?

[MoK]

I see a complete lack of individuality in the chapters. Black Templars being the biggest lack, the Chapter traits don't go far enough to make them interesting enough, for Chaos I'm disappointed by the omega lack of pretty much everything we got in Traitor Legions.

[Chaplain Killmer]

We are at the start of a new edition that isn't just a reflavour of the 3rd edition of the rules. During the time between 3-7th loads of new things were introduced into the game fliers, fortifications, detatchments / formation, knights as a class, superheavies, forgeword variants were common in the fielded armies. Some even started to lose the overview over all the options available to them and called it bloated. What I really like about the new game is in the details. Take the most common and at times most hated unit in the sm armory - the tactical squad before it was always just a tax with 1 or 2 weapons that you actually wanted and 7-8 marines that did more or less nothing during a game. Now you have that option to use what you have at targets that can be affected by your weapons and use all of them.

 

Next are the characters that I find now in a very good place expecially compared to the last restart at the dawn of the 3rd edition. Back then you could basically only use the veteran to lead your army because all marine heroes seriously sucked. Now with the redone rules for power fist class weapons and the order in which units attack - and the the modified to wound chart marine heroes can actually be heroic - and not just hiding in ablative units hoping nobody calls them for a challenge.

 

All of that is great. What i don't like so much is - we have to many different weapons now. 3 types of bolt rifles on one unit alone... erm well ok. I can understand that they wanted to introduce the new marines gently but maybe the approach was a bit too conservative. The Plasma Angels that the DAs already became with be now the bolter plasma marines as a whole group of armies... well it's just the start - maybe the variety will improve during the next release waves. 

Edited August 9, 2017 by Chaplain Killmer

[MoK]

I never thought of Tactical Marines as a tax. Mine have always been set up as an anti-infantry unit, Bolt pistol, Bolters, Heavy Bolter and plasma gun.

[Chaplain Killmer]

Well in this case the primaris guys fit nicely to your existing units :)

[Schlitzaf]

MoK, in regards to Black Templars, our uniqueness has always been tied our Crusader Squad. I have said in the BT forum our tactics, read "Gain Access to the Best Tactical Squad Variant in the Game, and these other nice things".

 

Additionally we have by far one of the best relics in the game (Crusade Helm), which helps our Black Tide Playstyle by allowing one character to provide great coverage. Helbrect (and on a lesser extent just Captains or even Chaplain) emulate our old "Accept any Challenge" Vow, with Helbrect in particular being essentially "Suffer not the Unclean", our stratagem is an emulation of "Abhor the Witch" vow.

 

Emperor's Champion can kill combat characters now. Cenobytes + Rites of War allow us to emulate the old "No Retreat", (Fearless in Combat). Company Veterans barring the old veteran skills (which remember those Vet skills were not a unique BT thing, every SM Codex had them until 5), are perfect for Sword Brothern.

 

There are a couple things I would have wanted. The option to take Primaris in our Crusader Squads, reintroduction of Biker Crusader Squads. Reroll charging isn't great tactic but it's a passable one.

 

I mean we aren't the best chapter ever and as much as the next guy, I wish we got our own codex. But flavorfully there and playstyle wise, we can emulate a lot of our older playstyles

[Sete]

Just not with the Primaris.

[TheOneTrueZon]

I see a complete lack of individuality in the chapters. Black Templars being the biggest lack, the Chapter traits don't go far enough to make them interesting enough, for Chaos I'm disappointed by the omega lack of pretty much everything we got in Traitor Legions.

 

On the other hand I just steamrolled a blob of Orcs last night and it wouldn't have been possible without the Righteous Zeal reroll on failed charges. It let me burn my up CPs on something more worthwhile, like fighting first during the opponent fight phase (huge). I'm proper happy to be back at the table. Most of the people I've met over the last month at various FLGS are also coming back to the hobby and getting games in.

 

Templars accept any challenge, no matter the odds, regardless of edition. 

[Wargamer]

The kind of lists that made me quit 40k are much more manageable now. I like that.

 

My game today felt like a testament to the power and glory of the ordinary Marine. My Tacs, Assault and Devastator squads went up against Terminator spam and Primaris, but when the dust settled I was standing proud on two objectives to my opponent's one. It reassured me that Primaris, while flashy, are not going to be replacing the status quo any time soon.

[Gothical]

I haven't had the opportunity to get to the gaming table yet (back injury from work) but I think 8th is fantastic. The Marine Codex has me even more excited, the combination of Chapter traits and enormous expansion of Stratagems gives so many interesting tactical options, and Warhammer Community has stated that the same is coming to every army. It's going to be a right pain to learn what an opponent's army can do given the sheer number of combinations available, but at the same time I love having a potential bag of tricks that can be used differently in-game rather than having choices restricted to army list building.

 

Having re-set everyone with a roughly equal baseline (the Indexes), the game is in a pretty good place balance-wise. The rapid FAQ releases are helping with that too - one tournament discovered that mass-Storm(Raven/Talon) was incredibly powerful, and an FAQ pops up to remove the scoring ability of flying units which clipped the wings of an otherwise rather abusive list. My Sisters of Battle feel less hampered than they did before, I'm very hopeful about my Iron Warriors (the Index seemed good enough, the Codex on the way looks amazing), I cannot wait to see how the Imperial Guard get diversified, and really hoping my Dark Eldar get their characters/court sorted out in an eventual Codex (but otherwise are in a fairly good place).

 

There are certainly problems - for me, auto-hit weapons like Flamers should be restricted from hitting Supersonic units; Dark Eldar need some better character wargear options and the Court of the Archon sorting out (and Lelith Hesperex needs her supreme duellist title back instead of whatever they did to her); and Imperial Guard have ended up with the only Super Heavy units that suffer the move-and-fire penalty from Heavy Weapons (even the rickety Stompa doesn't)! I am also apprehensive about handing Objective Secured out to every Troop choice in the coming Chapter Approved as I feel granting it to SM/CSM fixed one of the big issues against horde armies, whilst at the same time it means every army has a reason to invest in Troops, especially since there are now detachments where you can bypass taking them for otherwise superior options.

 

Overall, very very happy - but haven't hit the table yet.

[Morticon]

Overall happy, but have a major gripe which ive addressed in the BA forum - that being the combat phase.  

More specifically the ability of enemy to just leave combat means that theres almost no reason to charge something unless you can kill it- and unless you're overpointing on powerweapons - you're not doing that either.  

This is seeing all our top marine players locally gravitate towards heavy shooting lists - even more than before. 

[Cryptix]

Really? In our club even the marine players are seeing towards melee just because of how damaging morale is and how cheap melee weapons are.

[Morticon]

Really? In our club even the marine players are seeing towards melee just because of how damaging morale is and how cheap melee weapons are.

 

Any idea of which units theyre using?  And what theyre killing? 

 

 

[spiros14]

I'll admit, I had my doubts about the new edition before it arrived, to the point where I went on a codex buying spree so I could continue with 7th on my terms.

 

But playing 8th has proven to be better than 7th. No more constant referencing to the rulebook (Index is a different story, but I'm still getting used to the stat changes). No more having to bring Psykers to stand a chance to win (my LGS has a lot of daemon players; flying Tzeench Daemon Princes were the bane of me).

Overall I'm having more fun than in 7th. One thing I have learned is that Rhinos (something I have a lot of) have become way more useful, which I'm happy about.

 

I'm also enjoying the campaigns and different scenarios; keep them coming, GW.

[Bulwyf]

I haven't had this much fun with 40k in many years. I only hate that the 30k scene has died out because people will only play 8th ed. until FW lets us use our 30k armies again for 40k I don't see that changing.

 

the simplification of the rules, the fact transports are actually good and you aren't autofailing by not bringing Tau or Eldar are all great things.

[Schlitzaf]

Overall happy, but have a major gripe which ive addressed in the BA forum - that being the combat phase.  

More specifically the ability of enemy to just leave combat means that theres almost no reason to charge something unless you can kill it- and unless you're overpointing on powerweapons - you're not doing that either.  

This is seeing all our top marine players locally gravitate towards heavy shooting lists - even more than before.

 

Charge to deny, not to kill. If you Charge a unit they have to stay locked up or they cannot shoot. If they flee they must go directly away from you (so no fleeing forward). Charging to kill will end in dissapointment charging to deny the enemy movement/their own ability to charge/shooting is worthwhile. Espacially if you can consolidate into 2-3 Squads. And force a gunline to retreat.

[Servant of Dante]

I don't think they have to retreat away from you, just end their move 1" away from all your models, so you can retreat forward, you just can't shoot or assault (normally).

[Adeptus]

Overall happy, but have a major gripe which ive addressed in the BA forum - that being the combat phase.  

 

More specifically the ability of enemy to just leave combat means that theres almost no reason to charge something unless you can kill it- and unless you're overpointing on powerweapons - you're not doing that either.  

 

This is seeing all our top marine players locally gravitate towards heavy shooting lists - even more than before.

Yeah, they can walk out of combat, but they can't shoot and they can't fight so you've essentially rendered the unit useless for a turn.

 

It does also mean that dedicated combat units are worthwhile again, since getting that sweet Sx2 and AP-3 is a lot easier in combat.

[Schlitzaf]

Servant they have to move away from you and cannot go through your models. So it'll be hard for them to flee forward unless they have the fly keyword.

[the jeske]

 

Really? In our club even the marine players are seeing towards melee just because of how damaging morale is and how cheap melee weapons are.

 

Any idea of which units theyre using?  And what theyre killing? 

 

 

 

has to be a meta without orcs and tyranids. Probably based around minimax[lists made out of old company marines collections?maybe] units, against those big deathstar-light units can wipe stuff in a single turn while not suffering that much damage in return. Then you get the mash of melee in the middle/on objectives and msu dieing left and right after one players death squad kills the other players deathsquad or his army is more efficient and can run 2[or more then the opponent] death squads.

 

No chaff and IG list could also help, you wouldn't have to worry  about your melee units getting stuck killing low point stuff only to get focuse fired.

No knight or demon armies too, so you don't have to worry about 4-5 knights killing your melee squads in melee while shoting or not being able to kill stuff in melee, because it flys.

[Brother Captain Sirus]

You cant move through enemy units though, so how can opponents be retreating from combat but still advancing?

[Cryptix]

 

 

Really? In our club even the marine players are seeing towards melee just because of how damaging morale is and how cheap melee weapons are.

Any idea of which units theyre using? And what theyre killing?

 

Company Veteran Bikers, Dread Head lists, Assault Squad overload. Half the players in the store are Tyranids, so we don't have a lot of ways to get through power armor cheaply. Black Templars are scary in a Bike spam + Pod list I faced yesterday.