Chapter Focus: The Imperial Fists, Crimson Fists and Black T

[Ciler]

Let's maybe try and keep all discussions in the one and same thread ?

The other thread already has more replies : http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336954-chapter-focus-the-imperial-fists-crimson-fists-and-black-t/

[Ciler]

This stratagem seems pretty powerful (although as with the chapter trait it relies on a roll instead of being a flat buff, ah well).

 

I've been through the rules quickly, is there a limitation to only one stratagem of a given type per phase ?

[Acebaur]

Let's maybe try and keep all discussions in the one and same thread ?

The other thread already has more replies : http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/336954-chapter-focus-the-imperial-fists-crimson-fists-and-black-t/

 

Problem solved, threads merged. :)

[balordazul]

Now you can only use this one power a turn is that correct?  Is there not some limitation to how and when stratagems can be used?

[Kisada]

Paired with Sisters of Silence, BT seem as if they'll be an absolute steamroller when it comes to dealing with psykers.

 

Do you bring the sisters as an aux detachment?

Now you can only use this one power a turn is that correct?  Is there not some limitation to how and when stratagems can be used?

 

In matched play you can only use it once per phase

[Ciler]

This stratagem seems pretty powerful (although as with the chapter trait it relies on a roll instead of being a flat buff, ah well).

 

I've been through the rules quickly, is there a limitation to only one stratagem of a given type per phase ?

 

 

Now you can only use this one power a turn is that correct?  Is there not some limitation to how and when stratagems can be used?

I checked, in Matched Play Mission Rules (P. 215), Psychic focus indicates that a given power (except smite) can only be used once a turn (instead once per psyker per turn) ; and Strategic DIscipline indicates that a given stratagem can only be used once per phase.

 

Ergo : in matched play we can only try and deny one power.

[Banjulhu]

I'm just unimpressed with the Templar rules at this moment in time.

The army is still an assuault skewed force inside a faction with middling melee capacity so we still have the age old problem of we cant do enough in melee once we reach it.

 

It's nice to have some anti-psyker ability but it still takes up our armies unique strategem so whilst other chapters get libbies for some psychic offence plus anti-psyker tech and have a special stratagem on top, the Templar are denied access to the basic tech and instead have their stragagem be used up replacing what was taken away.

 

The next blow I'm fully expecting given what the Index did at the start of 8th did is that we will be crutching on Grimaldus and Helbrecht to function as anything more than just space marines painted black.

[balordazul]

Ok so it is very good on the theme just not all that strong.  Most likely it will be a desperation use of CP as we mostly likely will have better things to use CP on.

[Kisada]

GW replied on facebook to the re-roll question

 

"This is actually part of an ongoing debate which will be ended once and for all by an upcoming FAQ. Watch this space!"

[Ciler]

On the topic of the charge reroll, fresh off the press :

http://reho.st/self/bf81d184dffcd47042344bf6ac41fd8613020c82.png

 

I have previously expressed the idea that I found our chapter trait underwhelming. But if we end up with the option of re-rolling only the one dice, then it starts to become quite a bit better !

[Kisada]

I'm just unimpressed with the Templar rules at this moment in time.

 

The army is still an assuault skewed force inside a faction with middling melee capacity so we still have the age old problem of we cant do enough in melee once we reach it.

 

It's nice to have some anti-psyker ability but it still takes up our armies unique strategem so whilst other chapters get libbies for some psychic offence plus anti-psyker tech and have a special stratagem on top, the Templar are denied access to the basic tech and instead have their stragagem be used up replacing what was taken away.

 

The next blow I'm fully expecting given what the Index did at the start of 8th did is that we will be crutching on Grimaldus and Helbrecht to function as anything more than just space marines painted black.

 

Consider that Salamanders get to re-roll a hit and wound for each unit for 3 phases a round (shooting, combat, opponent's combat) ... that's a TON of CP they get to save on the re-roll stratagem ...

On the topic of the charge reroll, fresh off the press :

http://reho.st/self/bf81d184dffcd47042344bf6ac41fd8613020c82.png

 

I have previously expressed the idea that I found our chapter trait underwhelming. But if we end up with the option of re-rolling only the one dice, then it starts to become quite a bit better !

 

Keeping my black gauntleted fingers crossed

[Ciler]

 

Paired with Sisters of Silence, BT seem as if they'll be an absolute steamroller when it comes to dealing with psykers.

 

Do you bring the sisters as an aux detachment?

They have the imperium faction keyword so you can bring them in as part of whichever detachment you want.

[RedFox]

So both our stratagem and our tactic rely on luck to succeed? I am not impressed, still very underwhelming...

[Marshal_Roujakis]

 

Paired with Sisters of Silence, BT seem as if they'll be an absolute steamroller when it comes to dealing with psykers.

 

Do you bring the sisters as an aux detachment?

Now you can only use this one power a turn is that correct?  Is there not some limitation to how and when stratagems can be used?

 

In matched play you can only use it once per phase

 

 

Unless facing Tzeentch, Eldar or GK I don't see this as much of an issue... if your Templars are already withing 24" of a psyker, chances are you're either going to kill him next turn, your Templars die next turn or they're going to run very far away from you... either case, the witch might only cast 1-2 powers, and you can just stop the more potent ability and let the Neophytes catch the smite... in either case, you might actually only get to use the strategem once per turn regardless if it's match play or not...

 

Had a game today against Tau... reroll to Assault wasn't much and was only useful once... Terminators Deep Striked, failed charge distance in both rolls (10 is hard to get...) then moved and engaged next turn using only 1 2D6 roll... the only thing that managed the reroll was the Rhino... wish the CT was more like add 3" to charge distance instead of just flat rerolls... it ain't enough... I asked for more attacks, but I realized that it would be too OP if Grimaldus and Helbrecht were both in the field and you get an additional +1 Attack on top of that... so maybe just a 3" bonus charge distance in addition to 2D6... would get us to melee better...

 

Abhor the Witch is cool... limited in my meta, since I only have 1 Tzeetch enemy and most of the time the witch dies with a Black Sword in the throat before they could speak spells... but it is still cool... it's going to be amazing and hilarious stopping Magnus from using 1 psychic power just because of pure Zeal :D yeah he can cast everything else... except for that 1 spell I don't want him to cast :p

[Kisada]

 

 

Paired with Sisters of Silence, BT seem as if they'll be an absolute steamroller when it comes to dealing with psykers.

 

Do you bring the sisters as an aux detachment?

They have the imperium faction keyword so you can bring them in as part of whichever detachment you want.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that breaks your <Black Templar> detachment

[Marshal_Roujakis]

So both our stratagem and our tactic rely on luck to succeed? I am not impressed, still very underwhelming...

 

Abhor the Witch has a really high chance of success... you can technically stop almost any Smite spell casted on you or even more powerful psychic powers provided you have CP to spare...

 

as for Tactic, yeah it's mediocre... could have been better if it was just additional distance... 3" + 2D6" maybe?

[redmapa]

Its a fine stratagem, for only 1CP you can deny one power half the time, its a 24'' aura of hate that now also denies buffs, that Heretic wanted to use Warp TIme? DENIED! His focus lost as a rabble of angry marines bombard him with a barrage of expletives and holy prayers!.

 

I was half expecting and half hoping it'd be something combat related but this is pretty good and I wont deny how useful it is, remember that psykers can only attempt one unique power per turn. A bit bummed they didnt give us our warlord trait but they also didnt give CF their stratagem, unless they dont have one and have to share it with the IF.

[Schlitzaf]

So this stratagem is exactly what the doctor ordered. This edition we lacked ability to deny powers well now, we have them. I would have loved to see our Warlord Trait, and Relic but cest'la vie. And I think it's important to remember in regard to our chapter tactics. It still actually reads, "Gain Access to the Best (or 2nd Best) Tactical Squad Variant in the Game" and this other nice rule. While Crusader Squads are no longer the epitome of efficiency they used to be given how the Detachment system has changed over the years.

 

As a Tactical Squad Variant bar maybe Grey Hunters they are still the best in the game bar none. This is especially relavant with our strategem. As the Battalion gives us 3 Command Points. Unlike other Vanilla Marine Armies we don't pay Tactical Tax or Scout Tax. Furthermore sense we are likely running several Crusader Squads we need buff auras so the HQ requirement is easy enough to fill. While reroll charges do leave some to be desired. This strategem and hopefully our Warlord and Relic are awesome as well.

[Kisada]

 

Had a game today against Tau... reroll to Assault wasn't much and was only useful once... Terminators Deep Striked, failed charge distance in both rolls (10 is hard to get...) then moved and engaged next turn using only 1 2D6 roll... the only thing that managed the reroll was the Rhino... wish the CT was more like add 3" to charge distance instead of just flat rerolls... it ain't enough... I asked for more attacks, but I realized that it would be too OP if Grimaldus and Helbrecht were both in the field and you get an additional +1 Attack on top of that... so maybe just a 3" bonus charge distance in addition to 2D6... would get us to melee better...

 

 

 

 

I don't think Rhino's can use the CT.  Only infantry, bikes, dreads

[Acebaur]

 Terminators Deep Striked, failed charge distance in both rolls (10 is hard to get...

 

 

You only need a 9 brother ;) 

[Ebon Hand]

Holy crap, they made it usable against ANY psychic power. Awe yeeeeaaaahhhh. I'm really liking this. -revs chainsword-

[Vaughn]

THE EMPEROR PROTECTS

[Ciler]

 

I'm pretty sure that breaks your <Black Templar> detachment

I'll refer you to page 240 of the rulebook, which confirms that the Imperium faction keyword is good enough for a viable detachment. I don't recall seeing anywhere a requirement for the detachment to be wholly in the same chapter.

[gang_chong]

We don't know about Warlord Trait and Chapter Relic yet. Hope to see these gives melee buff like extra attacks, etc. :)

[Marshal_Roujakis]

 

 

Had a game today against Tau... reroll to Assault wasn't much and was only useful once... Terminators Deep Striked, failed charge distance in both rolls (10 is hard to get...) then moved and engaged next turn using only 1 2D6 roll... the only thing that managed the reroll was the Rhino... wish the CT was more like add 3" to charge distance instead of just flat rerolls... it ain't enough... I asked for more attacks, but I realized that it would be too OP if Grimaldus and Helbrecht were both in the field and you get an additional +1 Attack on top of that... so maybe just a 3" bonus charge distance in addition to 2D6... would get us to melee better...

 

 

 

 

I don't think Rhino's can use the CT.  Only infantry, bikes, dreads

 

 

Oh... we didn't know that... we just assumed it was for everything that had the Chapter Keyword... so I used it for Rhinos, Land Raiders, and Infantry :p

 

 

 

 Terminators Deep Striked, failed charge distance in both rolls (10 is hard to get...

 

 

You only need a 9 brother

 

 

Made a mistake with the distance, deployed 10" away... still a 9 is hard to get... I rolled a Snake Eyes and something low... either case not enough...