Will CSM get the "Primaris" treatment?

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I'll be honest.. I am not a fan of the "Primaris" Marines at all. They look nice, sure, but I just feel like they're larger than truescale and they wind up looking kind of ridiculous. Even worse is the fluff reasoning behind them.. I digress.

 

All that said, do you think GW will follow suit in making CSM "truescale" along with their loyalist brothers? I'm not necessarily of the crowd that thinks legacy (midget) Marines and Primaris Marines look awkward together.. and I am certainly not drinking the "all old marines are gunna be replaced" koolaid. I just think it would be odd for GW to not redo CSM.. the main baddies in the Universe. I don't really think they would stop with just TS and Plague Marines but outside of seeing new 'Zerkers and new Noise Marines do you think we'll end up seeing new CSM kits? What do you think the possibility (probability) of new 'Zerkers, NM, and CSM end up being "truescaled" like Primaris are?

[Lord Asvaldir]

Will there be a new chaos marine kit eventually? Yeah I'm sure there will be, but that could be one year away or four. It's impossible to know. As for if chaos marines will get primaris treatment, my guess would be no they aren't just going to replace the standard chaos marine kit with primaris sized marines, but that's just a guess.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

Will there be a new chaos marine kit eventually? Yeah I'm sure there will be, but that could be one year away or four. It's impossible to know. As for if chaos marines will get primaris treatment, my guess would be no they aren't just going to replace the standard chaos marine kit with primaris sized marines, but that's just a guess.

 

I am inclined to agree with you. I really think Primaris Marines are exactly what GW said they would be "reinforcements nor replacements" so if regular marines are changing I can't see CSM changing either. I am curious to see what the Chaos response is to these new super Space Marines. If CSM don't wind up with some balancing unit in the edition of "balancing" I'm going to be pretty frustrated. The updates in the Chaos index are super nice as well as how the rules help some of the lack luster CSM units shine a little bit... Without Daemons though it just seems like CSM still aren't very intimidating. 

[Lord Asvaldir]

Well I'm not going to make any judgements about how csm perform on the tabletop until our codex comes out in a few weeks. I don't necessarily think the codex will just fix everything and make everything better but it should at least make csm far more interesting to play.

 

As for the chaos response to primaris, who knows. Could totally see Fabius Bile teaming up with Abbadon to work on a project for chaos primaris though but that's just wishlisting.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Aren't the new Death Guard models roughly the same size as the Primaris anyway?  I know they're all "bloated by Pappy's dubious blessings" and stuff, but it seems like the up-scaling has already begun.

[Sception]

If by "primaris treatment" you mean will our future releases be in the new scale, then yes, yes we will.  If by 'primaris treatment' you mean will there be some narrative justification for the change in scale that calls the new bigger stuff something fundamentally different than the old smaller stuff, well, nobody knows outside of GW, and even within GW that's the thing that even if they have a plan for now, it could easily change before it actualy happens, so it hardly matters.

 

The new deathguard are already practically in primaris scale, and there was no fluff reason why they grew a couple extra feet tall since the previous plague marine models, so maybe all the chaos stuff will be like that.  Or maybe we'll get a canon justification for big boy chaos marines, like reverse engineered primaris marines, or bile perfecting his own experiments, or just the waxing power of chaos in the galaxy causing the mortal followers of the gods to literally swell with power.

 

No way to say what to expect right now, But what we probably shouldn't expect is any future models to be in the old scale.

[Panzer]

Will CSM models get upscaled with a new release? Yes I'm very sure.

Will they get upscaled to such a degree as Primaris Marines? I'm sure it won't be the case. My reason for that is, that they just released a new range of Chaos models (TSons and DG) and having regular CSM being bigger than TSons would be more than just weird. Not to talk about them being taller than Plague Marines who are supposed to be bigger than your average Marine while the new Plague Marines are slightly shorter than Primaris Marines.

 

I'm somewhat sure that the old Space Marine line will slowly get replaced by Primaris over the years but I'm also sure that it will be a thing in the fluff. They won't suddenly become Space Marines, they will stay Primaris Marines who succeeded the old Space Marines.

So unless the Chaos factions get their hands on a similar treatment or the gods suddenly after 10k years think "hey lets make them bigger!" I'm sure they will stay on the scale of the current loyalist Space Marines and TSons models.

[Plaguecaster]

I wish possessed got the Primaris treatment :( or more specifically the Gal vorbak treatment, more wounds, better (warped) gear plus them being bigger sized and more hard hitting compared to the average marine

[Bloody Legionnaire]

If by "primaris treatment" you mean will our future releases be in the new scale, then yes, yes we will.  If by 'primaris treatment' you mean will there be some narrative justification for the change in scale that calls the new bigger stuff something fundamentally different than the old smaller stuff, well, nobody knows outside of GW, and even within GW that's the thing that even if they have a plan for now, it could easily change before it actualy happens, so it hardly matters.

 

The new deathguard are already practically in primaris scale, and there was no fluff reason why they grew a couple extra feet tall since the previous plague marine models, so maybe all the chaos stuff will be like that.  Or maybe we'll get a canon justification for big boy chaos marines, like reverse engineered primaris marines, or bile perfecting his own experiments, or just the waxing power of chaos in the galaxy causing the mortal followers of the gods to literally swell with power.

 

No way to say what to expect right now, But what we probably shouldn't expect is any future models to be in the old scale.

 

What I'm getting at is GW gives a fluff excuse for Primaris Marines being newer, bigger, badder. There isn't one for Chaos... I was under the impression the reason DG were larger was because of the whole nurgle taint thing. It would have made things easier if GW had presented Primaris as truescale (if that is the real goal). 

 

I'm sure we'll see new models in old scale.. There is no "old scale" Ragnar Blackmane model for example and I highly doubt we'll be seeing him in Primaris size.. 

[Sception]

That might explain why death guard are bigger than other chaos marines, but it wouldn't explain why death guard are bigger than the previous version of death guard.  Barring any in-universe explanation for plague marines to grow a few extra feet that I'm not currently aware of, that's just a retcon, and if plague marines can be retconned bigger, then so can any other chaos unit, so when the primaris-scale chaos marines come, maybe they'll just be big without reason, or hand waved with a 'the power of the gods' bit.

 

If I had to guess, I'd expect this is how it will be for cult legions.  Plagues are big already.  Sonics and Zerks will similarly just be bigger in the future, with no explanation behind it beyond 'the favor of the gods'.  That will leave thousand sons small and weedy by comparison.  Real world, I expect that's because the rubric marines had been done and waiting for release for a while (there were semi-credible rumors that the designs, and possibly even some production, was already done on them years ago).  In-universe, if it's addressed at all, I'd guess it'll be tied to the rubric - no mutation means no physically growing in size with the favor of the gods.

 

For undivided stuff, though, I think we'll get literally chaos primaris - either corrupted/stolen/reverse engineered primaris marines & gear, or else a purely chaos counterpart not based on marine models, coinciding with a second chaos space marine codex in a couple years time, after the remaining cult legions are done.

 

If it were up to me, I'd have Fabius Bile be the one responsible for developing them, working with a new Dark Mechanicus character responsible for their armor, weapons, & gear, with Abaddon as a patron providing the resources and taking the greater part of the new chaos primaris marines for his Black Legion.  Maybe have Abaddon grievously injured by Guilliman or some other imperial hero in the fluff before that, such that the project for improved chaos marines isn't just to get him better soldiers, but also both to save his life and provide a narrative excuse to power him up to near primarch status.  Like maybe Abaddon himself is the first successful experiment, the favor of all four gods stabilizing Bile's otherwise unreliable experiments, and then genetic material from Abaddon himself is used in the enhancements to create others?  I don't know.  Regardless, I'd include new models for Bile, the new dark mech character, and Abaddon in a character three-pack alongside the release of new chaos primaris units.

 

But that's just how I would do it.

[FallenSoldiers]

I don't want a "bigger CSM" model...I want more badass rules and gear.  The model's don't need to change their size, just change their accessories and rules to reflect their relationship with Chaos.  Update the models to give us some new kits, sculpts, and style but the basic marine's don't need to be changed.

 

However, I could see Possessed and Chosen getting some nice love here.  I do love the idea of some Fabius enhanced troops, but I can just "do that" in the game if I include him.  

[Panzer]

That might explain why death guard are bigger than other chaos marines, but it wouldn't explain why death guard are bigger than the previous version of death guard.  Barring any in-universe explanation for plague marines to grow a few extra feet that I'm not currently aware of, that's just a retcon, and if plague marines can be retconned bigger, then so can any other chaos unit, so when the primaris-scale chaos marines come, maybe they'll just be big without reason, or hand waved with a 'the power of the gods' bit.

 

If I had to guess, I'd expect this is how it will be for cult legions.  Plagues are big already.  Sonics and Zerks will similarly just be bigger in the future, with no explanation behind it beyond 'the favor of the gods'.  That will leave thousand sons small and weedy by comparison.  Real world, I expect that's because the rubric marines had been done and waiting for release for a while (there were semi-credible rumors that the designs, and possibly even some production, was already done on them years ago).  In-universe, if it's addressed at all, I'd guess it'll be tied to the rubric - no mutation means no physically growing in size with the favor of the gods.

 

I think you are confusing something here. The Plague Marines are an upgraded model of the old one. They didn't exactly change at all. Unlike Primaris Marines who are supposed to be bigger than old Marines in any way possible.

They don't need any fluff explanation to upscale models to make them represent their actual fluff better. Plague Marines were alway supposed to be bigger so it didn't make any sense for them to be that small compared to loyalist Marines in the first place.

 

You are comparing apples to oranges there.

[Sception]

Meh.  "Plague marines were always supposed to be bigger" - fatter yes, but head-and-shoulders taller than other chaos marines?  No.  Of course, the new models are closer to their in-narrative scale compared to other non-marine human models, but the same could be said for all marine models, including other chaos marines.  Marines in the fluff were always closer to the size of the current primaris models than they were to the size of the previous marine models, at least in comparison to the scale set by other models in the game.  Marines are supposed to tower over normal humans, yet unarmored catachans are every bit as tall as fully armored chaos marines!

 

Again, if plague marines can get new models that stand head and shoulders over their previous models without any in-universe explanation, then so can (and will) berzerkers, and noise marines, and even regular chaos marines.  I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that won't be seeing future chaos marine models in the current scale, not unless its something, like rubrics, that was done ages ago and has been just sitting around waiting for a release window.

[1000 Sons]

In the dark Imperium book is mentions that Cawl has the potential to make primaris marines from traitor primarch geneseed. I could see some split between Cawl and Guilliman, or maybe Fabius Bile leading an attack to get the technology himself. The new csm boxes could definitely be primaris sized.

[Closet Skeleton]

I wish possessed got the Primaris treatment or more specifically the Gal vorbak treatment, more wounds, better (warped) gear plus them being bigger sized and more hard hitting compared to the average marine

 

The possessed models are already Primaris scale.

 

Dark Vengeance Chosen tower over regular chaos space marines but are shorter than most of the Dark Imperium Plague marines (if you compare the shortest plague marine to the tallest chosen they're actually about the same). I have a bunch of regular marines made with possessed legs who have the same stature as the new Death Guard.

[Panzer]

 

I wish possessed got the Primaris treatment or more specifically the Gal vorbak treatment, more wounds, better (warped) gear plus them being bigger sized and more hard hitting compared to the average marine

 

The possessed models are already Primaris scale.

 

Dark Vengeance Chosen tower over regular chaos space marines but are shorter than most of the Dark Imperium Plague marines (if you compare the shortest plague marine to the tallest chosen they're actually about the same). I have a bunch of regular marines made with possessed legs who have the same stature as the new Death Guard.

 

Then they are not Primaris scale. Primaris are slightly taller than Plague Marines. ;)

[DeadFingers]

The possessed models are already Primaris scale.

 

Dark Vengeance Chosen tower over regular chaos space marines but are shorter than most of the Dark Imperium Plague marines (if you compare the shortest plague marine to the tallest chosen they're actually about the same). I have a bunch of regular marines made with possessed legs who have the same stature as the new Death Guard.

 

No they're not.

 

http://puu.sh/wROC8/b219fe7195.jpg

[A D-B]

That might explain why death guard are bigger than other chaos marines, but it wouldn't explain why death guard are bigger than the previous version of death guard.  Barring any in-universe explanation for plague marines to grow a few extra feet that I'm not currently aware of, that's just a retcon, and if plague marines can be retconned bigger, then so can any other chaos unit, so when the primaris-scale chaos marines come, maybe they'll just be big without reason, or hand waved with a 'the power of the gods' bit.

 

If I had to guess, I'd expect this is how it will be for cult legions.  Plagues are big already.  Sonics and Zerks will similarly just be bigger in the future, with no explanation behind it beyond 'the favor of the gods'.  That will leave thousand sons small and weedy by comparison.

 

Nuh-uh, dude. Deathwatch and Thousand Sons are in a different scale to pretty much everything that came before them, and Plague Marines fit right in with those guys. Primaris are obviously taller and a little bigger than any of them, but the scale-up didn't begin with Dark Imperium. Deathwatch and Thousand Sons are made to the newer scales - there are some great comparisons online if you don't have the models to hand, and I think our resident genius Doghouse pointed out evidence where the "Deathwatch Marines are just standing up straight" belief was wrong, and they're definitively scaled up, not just in a different pose.

 

You can see it in the blogs where people have used Rubric Marines as their Thousand Son HH veterans, too. The Roobies tower over their pals - not even just FW resin or Ye Olde Chaos Marines, but the contemporary Space Marine kit and the HH plastics which were released at the same time as the Rubes themselves, too. 

Edited July 24, 2017 by A D-B

[Raven1]

@Malisteen TS are in a larger scale in comparison to CSM.

 

On topic, I would think CAN will be just that and our Primaris will be cult options. I would like to see useful possessed upscaled.

[Azekai]

I really hope there is new lore to represent the change in scale.

Guilliman and Cawl unleash their Primaris marines and begin the Indomitus Crusade. In response to this new threat, Mortarion stirs from his manse on the Plague Planet and swiftly unifies the Death Guard... whereupon he promptly orders them all to put lifts in their shoes.

Truly, this is a dark time for humanity.

 

[Bloody Legionnaire]

The other thing that makes it hard to compare are the poses GW models most Marines at. FW older armor marks is a good example.. since they are all standing up straight they appear to be taller than 40k Marines. That's something I've really grown to like about MKIII Marines from BoP. They are all modeled standing so they look a bit taller than the MKIV and other 40k powered Armor. 

 

It's funny that no one was going crazy about true scale until the Primaris came out as closet skeleton pointed out DV Chosen were very tall.. almost a full head taller than the Tac squads and none of them are standing. I knew about TS being larger models but had no clue DW were the same way so that's pretty cool.  There's a bunch of talk about the CSM codex being released sometime next month. I really can't see this codex being released with out new CSM models but there's absolutely no talk/rumors going on about what we can expect. That definitely has me a little concerned that we'll be stuck with the dated CSM kits for even longer. 

[DeadFingers]

There's a bunch of talk about the CSM codex being released sometime next month. I really can't see this codex being released with out new CSM models but there's absolutely no talk/rumors going on about what we can expect. That definitely has me a little concerned that we'll be stuck with the dated CSM kits for even longer. 

 

There's not "a bunch of talk", it IS being released right after Grey Knights, and I see no purpose in having more than a week of delay between the rest of the Primaris and those two, since they're definitely not getting any new models. Any Chaos releases in the following weeks/months are going to be Death Guard. Some months after Mortarion lands, we'll know which cult Legion is getting a facelift next, and after that one's done, the remaining one will follow. Then, maybe, we'll see Chaos Undivided get their time in the spotlight, with Abaddon following the four Daemon Primarchs' footsteps.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Hahaha!  CSM's get new models?!  Thank-you for that,  I needed a good laugh! :P

 

We won't get ANYTHING for our bread-and-butter codex units until likely well *after* the Cult books all get released...

Even then,   GW has shown they are happy to all but ignore the CSM model range,  because we'll still just buy the current dog-gak kits anyways.

 

If GW actually gives us anything new for our basics,  (Havocs,  basic marines,  Termies,  Chosen,  Cultists,  Possessed,  Oblits/Muties),  before 9th edition rolls out,  then I'll for once be hugely impressed.

Of course,  if we do get anything new this edition,  it'll probably just be a bunch more daemon engines & maybe,  finally,  up-scaling Abba-daba-do-badon to something more intimidating than a snarling 6-year old wearing daddy's armour. ;)

 

Face it,  our model line has been left to rot for so long,  that GW basically as this point,  needs to give us the '5th ed Dark Eldar' treatment.

Considering we still have the full roll-out of the Reboot Marines,  Deathguard,  Worldeaters,  Emp's Children,  AND,  whatever else comes for DA/BA/SW/DW,  we're almost certainly going to be sitting around alongside our Eldar friends who are still awaiting those oft mentioned,  but apparently only mythical 'plastic Aspect Warriors'.

[DeadFingers]

If anyone told me a year ago that not only were we getting proper Rubric models, but that the Thousand Sons were getting upgraded into a sub-faction that included a model for Daemon Magnus, I would've laughed at them. If that same person also told me that Plague Marines and the Death Guard were receiving the same treatment, including their Primarch, I'd have stopped laughing and told them that wasn't funny. And yet here we are.

 

The Chaos train is going at full speed and it shows no signs of stopping. Fulgrim, Angron and their respective Legions are an inevitability, and so is Abaddon. For the first time in over a decade, they're paying proper attention to Chaos, so maybe give them the slight benefit of the doubt? Look, I get it, I've been with Chaos for a long time, and I too have been waiting for updated models, I too got angry at the aftermath of Dark Vengeance and the lack of proper kits for Chosen and Cultists, I too raised my eyebrow at the Chaos Dinobots, I've been on this ride with everyone else. BUT LOOK AT EVERYTHING WE'RE GETTING! Proper kits for cult units, Daemon Primarchs, Greater Daemons, new units that aren't loyalist hand-me-downs, Legion rules, WE'RE ON FULL SWING!

 

So maybe, just maybe, calm down a bit? Just a bit. You don't need to keep jumping straight for the jugular every time, specially when they're actually paying attention to us. They can't release an updated version of the whole entirety of the Chaos range all at once, not when cult Legions are also getting part of the cake.

 

Simply put, before last year, Chaos getting updated was uncertain and unlikely, now it's a countdown.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Insane Psychopath

[Drudge Dreadnought]

It seems that the new fluff is setting up for Primaris Chaos marines. They have geneseed and primaris recruits from the original traitor legions that has been kept in stasis. I have the horrible fear that GW will foist these abominations on us at some point.