Will CSM get the "Primaris" treatment?

[Sception]

Frankly, I welcome our new true scale legionnaires, when and if they appear.  The primaris marines have some questionable design choices (combination hats & jump packs, for one), but a lot of those would likely be fixed by a properly mutated & daemonic armor, anyway - imagine those same jump guys, but with big daemonic wings instead of the rocket hoodie, and taloned daemonic feet instead of the booties.  The scale and proportions of primaris models are much better than the old stuff overall - maybe heads a bit small for their bodies, but again chaos helmets w/ the requisite horns/tusks/fanged maws would likely fix that, too.  I hope we get some kind of big terminators instead of 'gravis armor', but other than that, yeah, chaos primaris models, whether they get an in-universe justification or not, could be pretty cool, I think.  I'd be more interested in them than in yet more walkers, much as the rules for our walkers are a lot less bad this edition.

 

Otherwise, I understand the negative default disposition from a historical perspective, but support for chaos has been regular and rather nice for the last couple years.  Rules have been iffy, but we god plastic rubrics, a daemon primarch with another on the way, the legions book with legion support in an early codex, and there's heavy focus on us in the fluff; chaos is once again the chief antagonist in the setting ripping not just the Imperium but the galaxy itself literally in half.

 

The problem these days isn't anything directed maliciously at us, but rather a few general policies at GW - namely not doing new models for anything that already has a plastic kit, and not doing new rules for anything that doesn't already have a bespoke model to represent it - that just happen to hit us particularly hard.  But they also affect other armies to greater or lesser extents.  Deathwing in particular suffers from that latter bit, with their characters and units being limited to the options from the deathwatch box game, and not even getting any FW support.

 

So yeah, there's room to complain, but none of it feels malicious, and, if anything, of late GW seem to have been going out of their way to at least try to do our faction better justice.  I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt for once, and that's coming from someone who has been one of the bigger voices of negativity around these parts over the last decade.

Edited July 25, 2017 by malisteen

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I'd be happy to have truescale CSM. I'm just worried we'll be given Traitor Primaris marines or something.

[Panzer]

I really hope there is new lore to represent the change in scale.

 

Guilliman and Cawl unleash their Primaris marines and begin the Indomitus Crusade. In response to this new threat, Mortarion stirs from his manse on the Plague Planet and swiftly unifies the Death Guard... whereupon he promptly orders them all to put lifts in their shoes.

 

Truly, this is a dark time for humanity.

 

 

But they didn't get bigger in the fluff. Death Guard are still the same as before. They just finally got models apropriate to the upscaled loyalist Marines (and I'm not talking about Primaris here).

Edited July 30, 2017 by Insane Psychopath
Edit - Just remove a quote, as the post has been hidden

[Daenerys Targaryen]

I'm not being negative,  just accepting the likely reality of things...

 

We know that ALL the Cult Legions are going to get their own books this edition.  This means they'll get the absolute lion's share of the initial releases,  since all 4 cults need to be fleshed out by a lot.

1kSons got new Rubrics (only a paltry 18 years for that plastic kit!),  Scarabs,  a 3-pack Sorcerer kit,  Tzaans & Big A-man himself.  With the 1kSons codex,  we'll probably see them add in the rest of the Tzaangor line,  and throw in the basic codex options that make sense.  (ie:  Hellbrute,  Cultists,  Vindies,  Preds,  Land Raider,  Rhino...)

Deathguard are known to be getting at least full kits for Plaguies,  their new Termies,  the 'not Vindicator' tank,  maaaaybe a full-on Poxwalker kit?  A re-tooled Drone-thingy?  And likely a couple of clampacks.  Plus 'ol Morty of course. ;)

Worldeaters will be getting new Berserkers (and for once,  they'll even have actual Champion bitz in the box!!),  their own Termies,  maybe those oft-wished for Jugger-riders?  And probably a couple other thematic kits.

Emp's will get likewise plastic Noise Marines,  special Termies of some variety,  maybe we'll see Doomrider return?  Perhaps a full-on Sonic Dread kit that can make use of & expand on the plastic Contemptor Dread?

 

Basically,  each 'Cult Legion' will eat-up likely 3-4+ 'squad-based' kits,  plus their relevant Primarch,  a vehicle sized kit or two,  and a clampack or three...

That's a metric gak-tonne of plastic,  and will inevitably leave no room addressing the giant clusterfeth that is our current,  sad,  sorry,  mostly option-less main line.

So yes,  we're likely stuck with our sucktastic & fugly squatters,  while being forced to convert most of even just our basic options,  because 10-15+ years of total neglect tends to do that...

 

On the other hand,  if GW would show even just a tiny bit of common sense,  we could at least see *some* cleaning up of our current mess by throwing us a token bone of 1 kit for the non-Nurgle/Khorne/Slaanesh releases:

- Codex CSM's:  plastic Havocs please.  (yes,  I'm still bitter than Loyalists have now had TWO :cuss: plastic Dev kits,  while we're still stuck with a single heavy bolter as our only plastic heavy weapon!)

- Codex 1kSons:  plastic Cultist kit.

 

While Termies are still a total gakfest,  at least adding in those two above kits means that,  combined with Raptor/Warptalon kit + Possessed kit,  we can cobble together 1000000% better looking basics of our generic PA units and get some mortal meatshields with a few actual options.

 

Of course,  GW won't even give us that. >.<

[Panzer]

Yep, totally not negative.

[Lord Asvaldir]

I'm I the only one who thinks the current chaos marine models are OK? Sure they are not amazing, could be better, but given how easily you can convert models across the chaos range, plus we now have mkiii and iv plastics to work with it really doesn't bother me.

[Panzer]

I'm I the only one who thinks the current chaos marine models are OK? Sure they are not amazing, could be better, but given how easily you can convert models across the chaos range, plus we now have mkiii and iv plastics to work with it really doesn't bother me.

No, I'm sure there are a handful other people on the world who think like that as well. :D

[Sception]

They were fine for their time.  I still don't hate mine, I'm actually pretty proud of them.  But I don't think they've held up well.  Especially the models for the cult units, which is why I'm not upset that the cults are being re-done in plastic first, even though I mostly play undivided.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

 

I'm I the only one who thinks the current chaos marine models are OK? Sure they are not amazing, could be better, but given how easily you can convert models across the chaos range, plus we now have mkiii and iv plastics to work with it really doesn't bother me.

No, I'm sure there are a handful other people on the world who think like that as well.

 

 

Me, for instance.  Yes, they're old.  Yes, they could use more variety and some different detailing.  But overall, I still like them.  The spikes, the arrowheads, the riveted trims. . . visually they are still Space Marines, but all those extra details give them a very different feel than loyalist Marines.  I feel like it really reflects their anger, their role as villains.  When the new models come -- and I have no doubt they will come eventually -- I sincerely hope that the new line reflects the same (or at least similar) visual cues.

[Raven1]

The CSM kits certainly arent bad kits. They were good when they were introduced but compared to everyrhing rules the sprue are less efficient as what is put on there and newer models have cleaner more defined detail.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Chaos seems to have gotten a bit screwed over in that its only had a couple viable lists since we lost the 3rd ed codex. So while it has many potential model lines, it hasn't had a huge amount of players, and especially not players who would use things like thousand sons kits. But that was because the rules weren't worth it. It's been a catch 22 where GW may have thought there was no point in investing in more Chaos models because there wasn't much demand. But the lack of demand was due to lack of good rules. Now that's been improving since 6th, and I'll bet there's a lot more Chaos players now too.

[adreal]

Also the problem with chaos models is that there is the argument of every legion feels like they could have different marks of armour.

 

My aloha legion look great in mark 4, but black legion would look like ravenguard or iron hands without the chaos trim

 

Iron warriors look fantastic in mark 3, but can the same be said for night lords?

 

I'm not the biggest fan of the fleshy mutations that were in the dark vengeance chosen and helbrute, but I love the fleshy mutations in the new death guard.

 

So while gw can just update the chaos marines to the bigger scale and keep the trim, I'll just stick with my mark 4, so they won't get any sales from me, not out of spite, I'm really loving what games workshop has done since traitors hate dropped. But armour with trim doesn't suit my vision for alpha legion where mark 4 is amazing for me

[DuskRaider]

CSM kits are certainly showing their age. I'd love to see them get re-released in true scale ala Primaris Marines, but no dumb unit specialization like the Loyalists have currently. 

[Closet Skeleton]

Chaos will remain a converter's and kitbasher's army no matter how up to date our kits get.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Insane Psychopath

[DeadFingers]

 

 

Chaos will remain a converter's and kitbasher's army no matter how up to date our kits get.

 

 

That's kinda one of the main appeals of Chaos, isn't it? The opportunity to go completely nuts kitbashing, converting and sculpting an army full of mutants, monsters and abominations shaped after your own vision. The dream, however, is being able to do this because you want to and not because you have to. Thankfully, we seem to be on the road to that objective.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Insane Psychopath
Edit quote

[Sception]

I've always argued for a more clearly daemonic look for official chaos marine stuff in 40k.  Loyalist and 30k lines exist for players who want a clean look, but there's not a lot of options for properly daemonic chaos marines otherwise.  Plus, I like chaos marines to show their ten thousand years of warp exposure without the protective effects of faith in the Emperor.  IMO it painfully undercuts the power of chaos if simply turning up your nose at the gods is enough to insulate you from any deleterious effects of spending ten millennia of living in their house and fighting alongside them.

 

Personally, I love the DV look, with the jagged, uneven armor trim, little teeth, leering daemonic faces, and fleshy hoses and cords, daemonic mutations integrated with the mechanical elements of their weapons and armor, as though their equipment has its own malign life and intelligence acting in thrall to the chaos marine using it.  Like the chaos marines and the daemonic spirits drawn to it are far beyond the point of battling for dominance, and instead have reached a point where they operate together as a unified symbiotic whole greater than the sum of its parts.  Like - "oh, once we resisted this, cut off mutated limbs, destroyed corrupted gear, but that was long ago.  In time we learned it was as futile, and as counter-productive as fighting against the air or railing against the very laws of physics.  Now the influence of chaos is deliberately integrated into the very design of our machinery of war, an expected and essential tool for infusing our weapons and armor with supernatural power and vicious intelligence."

 

I would like a similar, if somewhat toned down, look for regular chaos marine stuff generally, with that level of mutation reserved for HQs & Elites.

[Skaorn]

I'm I the only one who thinks the current chaos marine models are OK? Sure they are not amazing, could be better, but given how easily you can convert models across the chaos range, plus we now have mkiii and iv plastics to work with it really doesn't bother me.

The only ones I really had problems with were berserkers. Even then they were better than some of the earlier models. Do any of you remember the old metal "special weapon" CSM? The one who's hands were bigger than his head? How about the metal dread we had forever? So long as the models improve on what came before, I don't have a problem with the change in size. I would still use my old CSM with new stuff, if I still played.

 

I think CSM gets more attention than other lines. I think the real problem is that the Imperium lines get way too much attention. I also still think GW still owes CSM for the Daemons.

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I'm I the only one who thinks the current chaos marine models are OK? Sure they are not amazing, could be better, but given how easily you can convert models across the chaos range, plus we now have mkiii and iv plastics to work with it really doesn't bother me.

 

Honestly MkIII and MkIV was the best thing to happen for me when it comes to new CSM models. To each his own on how much corruption post heresy CSM army is supposed to have but there's no doubt the MkIII and MkIV kits make excellent Traitors. The issue with the current CSM models (TS aside) is their proportions are all wrong which causes them to look dated. Let's not forget how terrible Berzerkers look compared to the rest of the CSM line. I am pretty excited about what new 'Zerkers could end up looking like. Any guesses as to which Armor Mks we may see them in? 

 

I do think the old CSM kits need updating but honestly Primaris Marines aren't true scale either... Which always surprises me when people way they are. Primaris Marines are way larger than they need to be and look a little awkward IMO.  

Edited July 27, 2017 by Bloody Legionnaire

[Sception]

I actually liked the metal dread.  Wish I still had mine.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

​This topic is about +Will CSM get Primaris Treatment+, polite like to ask that some member stay on topic

 

 

I actually liked the metal dread.  Wish I still had mine.

 

Same here, always like the 2nd ed era Chaos Dreadnought.  I've seen a few on ebay that don't go over the top with the price?

[Deadman Wade]

Don't really want to get "primaris treatment". Primaris look too much out of place in 40k for my taste, and too big compared to the rest of models, not to mention their weird poses (and I still laugh at their scopes :D ). Also, I fear that if GW does that, we'll get mutated CSM similar to DV, and that's the worst thing tha can happen to CSM aside from heldrake.

[Panzer]

Don't really want to get "primaris treatment". Primaris look too much out of place in 40k for my taste, and too big compared to the rest of models, not to mention their weird poses (and I still laugh at their scopes ). Also, I fear that if GW does that, we'll get mutated CSM similar to DV, and that's the worst thing tha can happen to CSM aside from heldrake.

Personal opinion. I for one would love DV CSM and think the Heldrake is one of the coolest models in whole 40k. ;)

[Azekai]

 

Don't really want to get "primaris treatment". Primaris look too much out of place in 40k for my taste, and too big compared to the rest of models, not to mention their weird poses (and I still laugh at their scopes ). Also, I fear that if GW does that, we'll get mutated CSM similar to DV, and that's the worst thing tha can happen to CSM aside from heldrake.

Personal opinion. I for one would love DV CSM and think the Heldrake is one of the coolest models in whole 40k.

 

Agreed. I want mutated guys- centuries or millennia in the warp isn't exactly clean living! The aesthetic of DV was (largely) what I would expect CSM to look like...

 

I almost want Chaos Primaris... but I don't just want their Aquila's filed off. I want them to look really gnarly.

[Deadman Wade]

 

 

Don't really want to get "primaris treatment". Primaris look too much out of place in 40k for my taste, and too big compared to the rest of models, not to mention their weird poses (and I still laugh at their scopes ). Also, I fear that if GW does that, we'll get mutated CSM similar to DV, and that's the worst thing tha can happen to CSM aside from heldrake.

Personal opinion. I for one would love DV CSM and think the Heldrake is one of the coolest models in whole 40k.

 

Agreed. I want mutated guys- centuries or millennia in the warp isn't exactly clean living! The aesthetic of DV was (largely) what I would expect CSM to look like...

 

I almost want Chaos Primaris... but I don't just want their Aquila's filed off. I want them to look really gnarly.

 

Well, I can have my opinion, and you can have yours. That's what forums are about after all)

What I dislike in mutated looks is that I can't even call DV Lord and Chosen "marines", they are fantasy-like warriors of chaos, not legion veterans that I loved since I first saw them in 2000s.

So I hope that at least the core of our army stays the same. Definetely don't want new units that serve the same purpose as old ones, like intercessors = tacticals, skull masked Night Lords wannabes = scouts e.t.c. If we'll get new stuff like kits for mutated chosen or possessed, well, I don't care as long as regular chaos marines look the same.

[DeadFingers]

Personal opinion. I for one would love DV CSM and think the Heldrake is one of the coolest models in whole 40k.

 

I like my Helturkey, but I'd like it better if it didn't have an "Eye of Terror". I know it's supposed to be like an exhaust or whatever, but it's just so... gaping.