Kimbo Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Hi all! Im new to the space marines and I really like the raven fluff/paintscheme/chapter tactic and so on...I just glued the dark imperium units for the primaris and here i stand with some questions... How would you expand from that box? Im looking for units/army lists that can work in competitive environment.. What are the "must have" units that works well for the raven guard? You consider raven guard competitive in 8th? By the look of it they own! If you would be so kind to make a good list to start with. I would like a list for that works against most armies..and i love all models so no worries There! Anything els i should know as a raven player? All help is really appriciated! Spazmolytic 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Stuff that works with the new rules/Chapter Tactics/stratagems. 1. Devastators - both flavours -1 to hit against your devs is great. Park some 8-10 man squads in cover. Add an apothecary and an LT you got a decent firebase. Would work great with centurion devs sporting lascannons too. 2. Beatstick characters with a Jump Pack The new relic gives advance+charge that can be rerolled. The new warlord trait makes this guy immune to overwatch. 3. Chapter Ancients. When you consider the -1 hit beyond 12" then add in a standard or even the Standard of the Emperor Ascendant you could have a really annoying bubble that does take morale tests and shoots after dying 2/3rds of the time. 4. Shrike and anything else that grants rerolls. If your list doesnt leverage rerolls, you are doing it wrong. Shrike is the best option because he can give rerolls for melee and shooting but you should consider chaplains and LTs for wound rerolls also. Random is bad... less random is less bad. 5. Tactical Marines These guys will grow in importance because of the new objective secured rule. Some armies will struggle to remove them from backfield objectives. 6. Stormravens These things are awsome. That is all. Things you must know. 1. The rules Our new stratagem is a rules lawyer wet dream. At present it seems that this ability is not restricted to 1 use but be prepared to face claims that it is usable only once. Page 176 and 215 of the rulebook is most relevant at this time. You should win those disputes with skeptical opponents until GW settles this issue. 2. Raven Guard isnt just jump infantry. Raven Guard is whatever you want to be. The new codex will let you take your army in whatever direction you want. You could make a horde gun line to leverage the -1 hit CT or an assault army with jump inf all over the place. You could even load up on vehicles if you really wanted. Spazmolytic, Filius, Noxnoctis22 and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4834096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extropian Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 2. Raven Guard isnt just jump infantry. Raven Guard is whatever you want to be. The new codex will let you take your army in whatever direction you want. You could make a horde gun line to leverage the -1 hit CT or an assault army with jump inf all over the place. You could even load up on vehicles if you really wanted. I wish more people remembered this part. They are a primarily Codex organised Chapter with a preference towards jump infantry. Even their stealth focus is just a preference....it's not like they can't fight any other way, and often do. It's just that given their choice and if circumstances allow, they will fight a certain way. Filius 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4834300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 If i were to go with the Raven Guard, I'd try to choose a detachment (Batalion or Brigade) that offers as much Command Points as possible, which leads to many Troops, probably Scouts, but Tactical Marine or Incessors (of which you already have some) too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4834319 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONDIG Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Honestly I would play as many games as possible w/ just the units that you have and then decide what direction you want to go in .At a glance the units in the box seem to cover most of an armies most basic needs and the Cpt.Lt. and Ancient provide excellent buffs and the intercessors and hellblasters have just enough range and lethal Dmg. To cover the middle-near grounds.After a few games the rules , gameplay etc..will become more familiar and you will get an idea of what additional units you may want/need to survive your local scene!Off the top of my head as SGuardsman recommended a Devastator squad would give you some response to Heavy vehicles and maybe help vs. fliers.(you'll eventually want dedicated anti air as required )also a transport for your budding company is always a great idea as well as a small scout squad or 2(3-4!) To hold objectives in your backfield or scramble to snatch enemy objectives in maelstrom games! Know your rules,know your (plastic)men VICTORUS AUT MORTEM! Filius and Race Bannon 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4834379 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Corbin Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 My Thunderfire Cannon is back this edition! Now it is just S5 with AP0, but does not need line of sight, and 4d3 shots has been averaging 6-8 shots per turn. Also, the gun is a vehicle that the gunner can repair while it keeps shooting, and the Techmarine is a Character so the gun has to be destroyed before he can be targeted by non-snipers. My Ironclad Dreadnought has been a beast on the tabletop. Either everything focuses on him and not the rest of my army until he is destroyed, or he is ignored and my opponent pays a heavy toll for doing so. I would get a Stormraven just for him, but with our new Stratagem, he may just be in the enemy's face very early on. Also, with our new Chapter Tactics, combined with his Smoke Launchers, to hit rolls are modified by -2. Now he is T8, unlike other Dreadnoughts, so my opponents will tend to fire overcharged Plasma at him if he threatens any units with Plasma weaponry. With that -2 to hit, 1s, 2s, and 3s will cause models to die. I agree, Shrike is almost mandatory for lists heavy on jump infantry. I use him for dropping in masses of Assault Marines. For the Vanguard, I am leaning towards a Librarian with Force Axe, Plasma Pistol, and Raven's Fury. He can buff them with his reroll power, while he takes advantage of the relic. Let Shrike and the Assault Marines blend up troops, but the Librarian and Vanguard will go after an elite or heavy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4834477 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Poe Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I would invest in Vanguard Veteran models over Assault Marines as a personal rule of thumb for new RG players. I'm not sure if you are new to space marines in general but new marine players are almost always underwhelmed by assault marines. Like some other guys have mentioned, Raven Guard are not just marines with jump packs. Devastators are a very strong unit right now with our chapter tactics. Just as well, scouts with cloaks and snipers benefit the same way and add some flavor to our armies. Definitely invest in Shrike or a model to counts as Shrike. For 150 points he is just too good to not include in any list. This is a personal preference but I like to fill my Fast Attack slots with Land Speeders. I think they went down in point in this new Codex (I could be wrong). From a table top / play style perspective. Raven Guard play a little different that some other SM armies. We are not as good as other CC oriented chapter such as the BA or SW. We don't have R. Girlyman. We dont have rules to abuse bikes or vehicles like WS or DA. We are an army that has to play tactically and choose it's engagements wisely. If that kind of style tickles your fancy then welcome to the black feathered brotherhood, brother. Filius 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4834613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noxnoctis22 Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 Shrike - for all the reasons list already as well as so more. His aura can be moved around the battlefield with ease because of his jump pack. He's not the frontline melee monster you may think, he can hang back in you gunline and buff the units that need it from turn to turn because of his high movement range. With him being in the backfield he can always provide a counter-charge aspect to your army. Also because he can drop in from "deep strike" you can decide WHEN and WHERE you want him to be. Captain w/jump pack - same as above with Shrike, highly mobile aura. Rilfeman Dreadnought - 2x Twin Autocannons puts out great firepower. Great gunline unit with buffs from other units. Upgrade to a Venerable if you plan to be mobile with them. Sniper Scouts - in cover with camo cloaks, very hard to hit and kill. Allows you to take out characters. Not cheap but the more you take the better they all get as you can delete characters in one round of shooting. Devastator Squad - as others have stated. Relic Whirlwind Scorpius - you go look up the rules/weapon profile and you'll why it works for RG, trust me. ONDIG 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4834653 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I would invest in Vanguard Veteran models over Assault Marines as a personal rule of thumb for new RG players. I'm not sure if you are new to space marines in general but new marine players are almost always underwhelmed by assault marines. *snip* What? I just can't imagine a world in which I'd be underwhelmed by Assault Marines. They are one of the very few signature models of the whole franchise! It's not a question of "if", but only the question wether you prefer them in babyblue (Skyclaws), red (Blood Angels), black (Raven Guard) or white (Scars) … Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4834950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Poe Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 I would invest in Vanguard Veteran models over Assault Marines as a personal rule of thumb for new RG players. I'm not sure if you are new to space marines in general but new marine players are almost always underwhelmed by assault marines. *snip* What? I just can't imagine a world in which I'd be underwhelmed by Assault Marines. They are one of the very few signature models of the whole franchise! It's not a question of "if", but only the question wether you prefer them in babyblue (Skyclaws), red (Blood Angels), black (Raven Guard) or white (Scars) … Don't get me wrong, I love me some assault marines. But the unfortunate reality is that assault marines are just not that good at actual assaulting. For a new player it could be off putting that their new assault squad just got beat up in combat by [insert literally any melee oriented unit]. If you want to field a good combat unit with jump packs use vanguard veterans. Assault marines are still useful and can fill certain roles in a list but I find it takes a little more nuance, a little more experience to be done correctly. Die4Emprah, Filius and Alcyon 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4834994 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 WHICH is what makes a good general great. Assault Marines *are* better than Tactical Marines in the Fight phase. Vanguard are still the cat's meow though, but AM use the FA slot and that makes a huge difference. Mr. Poe 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4835005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 Wow..thanks for all The replies! Glad for all The help! Do anyone got a list that they used that worked? Would love If it contained primaris from the startboxen. Fyi ...I love assault marines ONDIG 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4835046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbo Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 And what do people think about the new rievers? Think they would look so awesome as ravens duz_ 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4835051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws and Effect Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 The reality is that you're going to get your buttocks kicked a bunch before you figure out what does and doesn't work. The real kicker? What works and what doesn't will vary depending on the army and player you're facing. Generally speaking, Raven Guard are good at forcing the opponent to play their game. Their melee is pretty good, but other factions do it better. If you put a squad of Vanguard against World Eaters Berzerkers or Blood Angel Death Company, they're probably going to die. Stealth is something only the Tau can hope to match. Hit penalty over 12" combined with cover can make a Raven Guard unit very hard to kill at range. Shrike has gone from one of the worst HQs available to Marines to one of the best. Take him. Always. The guys who have already posted gave you some good pointers, but ultimately your own game experience is where you learn the most. Mr. Poe 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4835101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkimaskMohawk Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 (edited) And what do people think about the new rievers? Think they would look so awesome as ravens You don't say Edited July 28, 2017 by SkimaskMohawk Spazmolytic and ONDIG 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4835407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filius Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 I would invest in Vanguard Veteran models over Assault Marines as a personal rule of thumb for new RG players. I'm not sure if you are new to space marines in general but new marine players are almost always underwhelmed by assault marines. *snip* What? I just can't imagine a world in which I'd be underwhelmed by Assault Marines. They are one of the very few signature models of the whole franchise! It's not a question of "if", but only the question wether you prefer them in babyblue (Skyclaws), red (Blood Angels), black (Raven Guard) or white (Scars) … Don't get me wrong, I love me some assault marines. *snip* Don't worry! I was just joking. I just had to pick up your line. Sorry, if I irritated you! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4835503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extropian Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 I always found Assault Marines better with Assault weapons than actual melee. They are great as mobile melta/plasma carriers, but always massively disappointing in combat for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4835524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONDIG Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Wow..thanks for all The replies! Glad for all The help! Do anyone got a list that they used that worked? Would love If it contained primaris from the startboxen. Fyi ...I love assault marines you guys think a list with some snipers/devs in the back. And some assault marines and primaris going forward is a good way to go? Yup.Exactly that.And then your ASM fill the gap in your lines serving as skirmishers to counter assault units that make it to your backfield or add a little 1-2 punch to your Primaris moving forwards.But remember as others have mentioned ASM are not the CC monsters that the fluff would have u believe them to be that would be V.Guard Vets but their mobility (and double flamers and a melta bomb!) Give you options to deal with stragglers or that enemy transport trying to break your line.They are OK in CC but really shine in Co operation w another squad.Escorting your Rhinos or absorbing overwatch for VV or another larger unit .It took me awhile(and Buckets of tears!) to understand how to realize they are not,Death company.If you play chess think of them as Knights leaping over other pieces for that Gotcha! But not the most powerful pieces w/out support. Race Bannon, Mr. Poe, Spazmolytic and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4835709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 ONDIG nailed my perception of Assault Marines :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4835714 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Poe Posted July 28, 2017 Share Posted July 28, 2017 Don't worry! I was just joking. I just had to pick up your line. Sorry, if I irritated you! You did no such thing . Filius 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4835777 Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriade Posted July 29, 2017 Share Posted July 29, 2017 What are peoples opinions on skimmers and fliers this edition as well any recommendations for loading them out? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4836597 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcyon Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Stormraven is incredible by all accounts, I think the Stormtalon is probably still pretty good but there are a lot of other Assault Cannon platforms so they maybe got a lil' worse. Re: Landspeeders, I think they are too fragile to work well with Multi-Meltas and the Missile Launchers are super expensive. Big losers in 8th edition I think. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4837581 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SanguinaryGuardsman Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Stormraven is incredible by all accounts, I think the Stormtalon is probably still pretty good but there are a lot of other Assault Cannon platforms so they maybe got a lil' worse. Re: Landspeeders, I think they are too fragile to work well with Multi-Meltas and the Missile Launchers are super expensive. Big losers in 8th edition I think. Big losers that hit on 4s, 5s vs Raven Guard! If they cost 50 points base or had some assault weapons/rapid fire weapons, they would be good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4837586 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Poe Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Yes, this is rather unfortunate as I have 5 of them. Darrell 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4838860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Me with 4. It's as if GW doesn't want us to use them: "hey, we made this model that's hard to build and paint with a high point cost. Please don't play with this as we are thinking about getting rid of it anyway. I mean, the Land Speeder is soooo 20th Century. Now go get more Primaris ... their tank floats!" Mr. Poe and SanguinaryGuardsman 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/337201-new-raven-guard-player-looking-for-some-guidence/#findComment-4838903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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