Chaos codex release date 8/5/17

[Commissar K.]

As in the World Eater topic, whatever the reason was, it's cleared up now.
Personally I do think that both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are part of Chaos Space Marines aswell however they will have their own set of rules and if we look at how Legion Traits for example work it doesn't really matter wether or not you have your own Codex in terms of building armies. The prime reason for this is that Games Workshop has left us with Imperium, Chaos and Xenos to work with. We know DG and TS are part of Chaos and as such you can in fact create an army with their Codex next to that of Codex Chaos Space Marines. 

This type of design also directly comes from Age of Sigmar again where we have to option to choose an army Keyword and focus on it as much as we see fit. It's different from the days of Warhammer Fantasy and 7th ed Warhammer 40K where a Codex was the faction. Those borders in terms of narrative never where that clear and this is the design advantage they have taken now aswell.

The only thing I do think is very important to keep in mind for Tournament and Tournament players is that TOs will have to make their own rules to inform players about what they can and cannot do. However the beauty of these updates remains that GW really tries to design as balanced as possible which in the end means that very few units are actually much stronger as others for the same cost.

Chaos as a faction, CSM aswell, just suffers from one design weakness in my opinion and that is that of the design saturation we have. Meaning we simply said have too many units acting the same which means that even the slightest difference in design will make them 'great' or 'useless'. This boundry is only kept there as long as those units indeed serve the same purposes. I feel this is also why a good competitive CSM player will use Imperial Armour supplements a lot because Space Marines and their chaotified design do not suffer from this same design saturation the way we do. Meaning they actually have different Land Raiders for different roles, Dreadclaws/Droppods and now even have the option to go Primaris or not.
All we can continue to hope for is that one day CSM will recieve the same kind of love again. Luckily Forge World does care.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

I did not understand the errata on the Sergent equipment, can someone explain the change plz ?

[Commissar K.]

I did not understand the errata on the Sergent equipment, can someone explain the change plz ?

It said that you had two options from one list (melee weapons and pistols) or one of the other (combi weapons).

 

It's now clearified that you can have two options from the lists, so you can have a melee weapon and a combi weapon change.

 

What it said:

 

The "Alternatively,..." sentence now says: "‘One of the champion’s weapons can be chosen from the following list:"

 

Which leads to us having two options, one of which being the Combi/rangedweapon set instead of having two OR one option.

Edited August 20, 2017 by Commissar K.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

OOoohh, so i could add melee weapon to my champ with combi weapon. That's great, if only i add point left now than some cultist turn back into Noise marine in my list ^^ Thx. 

[Commissar K.]

OOoohh, so i could add melee weapon to my champ with combi weapon. That's great, if only i add point left now than some cultist turn back into Noise marine in my list ^^ Thx. 

Exactly, it's pretty good for everybody.

 

Combi-Flamers are a serious consideration for any Marine unit that expects to have to deal with a horde.

Combi Melta and Plasma are amazing for any unit with the intention to remove multiwounded units.

[Lord Asvaldir]

Beyond just the in game benefits I'm quite pleased that it is once again legal for a champion to have a combi weapon and a power weapon so that all those DV models plus other stuff I've converted doesn't just have a useless combi weapon hanging on its back! Combi plasma plus a cheap power weapon might be a more usual option for me now on a champion. Still doesn't help all those chosen I converted up to have chainswords, pistols and bolters, but can't ask for everything in one update.

[Panzer]

As in the World Eater topic, whatever the reason was, it's cleared up now.

Personally I do think that both Death Guard and Thousand Sons are part of Chaos Space Marines aswell however they will have their own set of rules and if we look at how Legion Traits for example work it doesn't really matter wether or not you have your own Codex in terms of building armies. The prime reason for this is that Games Workshop has left us with Imperium, Chaos and Xenos to work with. We know DG and TS are part of Chaos and as such you can in fact create an army with their Codex next to that of Codex Chaos Space Marines. 

Part of Chaos, yes. Part of Heretic Astartes, yes. Part of CSM, no.

It's the same as it's always been with Blood Angels etc. They also aren't part of C:SM. They are their own thing that's completely seperate from the Marines in the other books.

[OnboardG1]

That's a pretty nice errata on the sarge gear. Means I can power my raptors up a bit more.

[Commissar K.]

 

Part of Chaos, yes. Part of Heretic Astartes, yes. Part of CSM, no.

It's the same as it's always been with Blood Angels etc. They also aren't part of C:SM. They are their own thing that's completely seperate from the Marines in the other books.

 

Perhaps, at this point this is still an assumption as the Codex leaves out Death Guard and Thousand Sons because they will have their rules covered in their own Codex. I deem it very likely that they too will have Despoilers of the Galaxy but a build in Legion Trait. Shadowy Allies will also be available to them as this rule is actually a rule attached to Fallen units and Fabius Bile (much like Berzerker Horde was in the Index). I completely get that Blood Angles arn't part of Codex Space Marines but it also is not confirmed that they are not 'Space Marines' or furthermore will not be treated as such.

 

What I am saying is that the relevancy of their Codex origin matters very little in this edition. The only true reason to stick to any particular Legion is because of Legion Traits and if you happen to have one you don't like I'd strongly consider not to bother with that at all. Some Legion Traits arn't too exciting for me. The Strategems most certainly are but those are not restrictive like the Legion Traits at all for example. "Chaos Space Marines" in itself isn't even a Keyword or something in particular, all it says in the Codex is that it's a shorthand term for particular Datasheets with particular Keywords.

 

Cheers,

[Sception]

That's a pretty nice errata on the sarge gear. Means I can power my raptors up a bit more.

 

Yeah, I'm happy about it.  I've got other stuff to work on first - finishing my defiler, some terminators I have coming in the mail, but I'll be converting some new unit champions for my CSMs after that thanks to this ruling.  I'm thinking combi-plasmaguns from evil craft, plus sheathed swords from the berzerker sprues to represent power swords.  And my 'zerker champ can go back to being wysiwyg with his power fist and combi melta.

 

Now if only they'd make my chosen wysiwyg again by giving them back their ubergrit....

[OnboardG1]

 

That's a pretty nice errata on the sarge gear. Means I can power my raptors up a bit more.

 

Yeah, I'm happy about it.  I've got other stuff to work on first - finishing my defiler, some terminators I have coming in the mail, but I'll be converting some new unit champions for my CSMs after that thanks to this ruling.  I'm thinking combi-plasmaguns from evil craft, plus sheathed swords from the berzerker sprues to represent power swords.  And my 'zerker champ can go back to being wysiwyg with his power fist and combi melta.

 

Now if only they'd make my chosen wysiwyg again by giving them back their ubergrit....

 

 

I was already planning to do combi plasma champs but now I can put a free chainsword on the champ and get another attack, or a cheap power weapon to make the unit slightly more threatening in CC. It's a nice change.

[Aothaine]

 

 

That's a pretty nice errata on the sarge gear. Means I can power my raptors up a bit more.

 

Yeah, I'm happy about it.  I've got other stuff to work on first - finishing my defiler, some terminators I have coming in the mail, but I'll be converting some new unit champions for my CSMs after that thanks to this ruling.  I'm thinking combi-plasmaguns from evil craft, plus sheathed swords from the berzerker sprues to represent power swords.  And my 'zerker champ can go back to being wysiwyg with his power fist and combi melta.

 

Now if only they'd make my chosen wysiwyg again by giving them back their ubergrit....

 

 

I was already planning to do combi plasma champs but now I can put a free chainsword on the champ and get another attack, or a cheap power weapon to make the unit slightly more threatening in CC. It's a nice change.

 

 

They just need to let our CSMs take a chainsword and Bolter. ^_^

[OnboardG1]

 

 

 

That's a pretty nice errata on the sarge gear. Means I can power my raptors up a bit more.

 

Yeah, I'm happy about it.  I've got other stuff to work on first - finishing my defiler, some terminators I have coming in the mail, but I'll be converting some new unit champions for my CSMs after that thanks to this ruling.  I'm thinking combi-plasmaguns from evil craft, plus sheathed swords from the berzerker sprues to represent power swords.  And my 'zerker champ can go back to being wysiwyg with his power fist and combi melta.

 

Now if only they'd make my chosen wysiwyg again by giving them back their ubergrit....

 

 

I was already planning to do combi plasma champs but now I can put a free chainsword on the champ and get another attack, or a cheap power weapon to make the unit slightly more threatening in CC. It's a nice change.

 

 

They just need to let our CSMs take a chainsword and Bolter.

 

 

That would be nice, but I'm pretty happy with my Berzerker champ being able to take both a power fist and a combi-flamer.

[Gordon Shumway]

Interestingly, if I am reading it correctly, you don't need to have a detatchment of just WE or EC units to get cult units as troops as they are unit rules now instead of army. So malific lords work fine for the filling out the HQ requirements in a battalion detatchment.

[Panzer]

Interestingly, if I am reading it correctly, you don't need to have a detatchment of just WE or EC units to get cult units as troops as they are unit rules now instead of army. So malific lords work fine for the filling out the HQ requirements in a battalion detatchment.

Hm seems you are right. So if someone doesn't care about Legion specific stuff they can just play a mixed Chaos or mixed Heretic Astartes army and take WE Berzerker and EC Noise Marines as troop choices.

 

That's kinda dirty lol

Edited August 21, 2017 by sfPanzer

[Gordon Shumway]

 

Interestingly, if I am reading it correctly, you don't need to have a detatchment of just WE or EC units to get cult units as troops as they are unit rules now instead of army. So malific lords work fine for the filling out the HQ requirements in a battalion detatchment.

 

Hm seems you are right. So if someone doesn't care about Legion specific stuff they can just play a mixed Chaos or mixed Heretic Astartes army and take WE Berzerker and EC Noise Marines as troop choices.

 

That's kinda dirty lol

I'm NL, so thanks for the compliment. Plus, it's only really dirty if mom is watching.

[Sception]

You'll want at least on non-auxiliary, pure-CSM detachment to qualify for the stratagems.

[Gordon Shumway]

Well,...yeah... but that wasn't really the point, was it?

[Sception]

if you're filling out HQ slots with malefic lords, it can be an issue.

[GreaterChickenofTzeentch]

 

That's a pretty nice errata on the sarge gear. Means I can power my raptors up a bit more.

 

Yeah, I'm happy about it.  I've got other stuff to work on first - finishing my defiler, some terminators I have coming in the mail, but I'll be converting some new unit champions for my CSMs after that thanks to this ruling.  I'm thinking combi-plasmaguns from evil craft, plus sheathed swords from the berzerker sprues to represent power swords.  And my 'zerker champ can go back to being wysiwyg with his power fist and combi melta.

 

Now if only they'd make my chosen wysiwyg again by giving them back their ubergrit....

 

Yeah, giving Chosen back their golf bag of weapons would help them out a lot in this edition and set them apart a bit.

Edited August 22, 2017 by GreaterChickenofTzeentch

[Daionosis]

I totally missed the section on sarges! That is awesome. Sadly giving the champion more gear next to his combi weapon gets expensive pretty quick but it is cool we have the option again.

[Commissar K.]

I totally missed the section on sarges! That is awesome. Sadly giving the champion more gear next to his combi weapon gets expensive pretty quick but it is cool we have the option again.

Certainly true but due to the small discount on Lightning Claws and Power Fist it´s actually not more expensive as it used to be :) Even a Plasma Pistol/Combi Weapon combination is relatively affordable. All in all the extra gear is neat and the Combi Weapons are costed well enough to make it good but not out of bounds for it's costs.

[OnboardG1]

 

I totally missed the section on sarges! That is awesome. Sadly giving the champion more gear next to his combi weapon gets expensive pretty quick but it is cool we have the option again.

Certainly true but due to the small discount on Lightning Claws and Power Fist it´s actually not more expensive as it used to be Even a Plasma Pistol/Combi Weapon combination is relatively affordable. All in all the extra gear is neat and the Combi Weapons are costed well enough to make it good but not out of bounds for it's costs.

 

 

A combi flamer or even a baseline combi bolter seems like a good take on most champions. Cheap firepower isn't to be sneezed at. Not Havocs because the sarge is ablative but on pretty much anything else. 

[Brother Aiwass]

A combi flamer sarge on 2x5 flamer havocs is worth the points imo, because that's 7 more flamer hits.

[OnboardG1]

A combi flamer sarge on 2x5 flamer havocs is worth the points imo, because that's 7 more flamer hits.

 

I was thinking of heavy weapon havocs, but yeah the special weapons guys can benefit from the combi weapon on the sarge.