My Thoughts After One Game

[Iron Father Ferrum]

So I played my first game of 8th Edition yesterday using the new 'dex, and here are my first impressions of the table top.  Armies were as follows:

 

 

CT:Iron Hands

Battalion + Vanguard

 

Battalion Detachment

- Captain with Terminator Armor, thunder hammer, Shield Eternal

- Librarian with force sword, Might of Heroes, Null Zone

 

- 5x Tacticals with plasma & combi-plas in a las/plas Razorback

- 5x Tacticals with plasma & combi-plas in a las/plas Razorback

- 10x Scouts with camo cloaks, sniper rifles, and missile launcher

 

- Thunderfire Cannon

- Thunderfire Cannon

- Hunter

 

Vanguard Detachment

- Techmarine with combi-plas, full servoharness, power axe

 

- Venerable Dreadnought with twin lascannons, fist, heavy flamer

- Venerable Dreadnought with assault cannon, fist, heavy flamer

- Venerable Dreadnought with heavy plasma cannon, fist, heavy flamer

- Ironclad Dreadnought with seismic hammer, fist, 2x heavy flamers, and assault launchers

 

 

Versus (gear approximate):

 

CT: Ultramarines

Battalion Detachment

 

- Captain with relic blade & combi-plas

- Librarian with force staff, Might of Heroes, and Veil of Time

 

- 5x Tacticals with plasma & combi-plas

- 10x Tacticals with melta, combi-melta, and multimelta in a Rhino

- 10x Tacticals with flamer, combi-flamer, and heavy bolter in a Rhino

 

- Dreadnought with assault cannon, fist, and stormbolter

- 10x Tactical Terminators with cyclone missile launcher, assault cannon, a few chainfists

 

- Land Raider Redeemer (stock)

- Tri-las Predator

 

 

 

We played Contact Lost with the table quarters deployment.  Game ended after just two turns (store was closing) and a draw because I mismeasured a quarter of an inch off an objective.

 

His deployment placed the Predator in the very back of his DZ along the short table edge, with good sight lines down the middle of the table.  Dreadnought and LRR (with 5x Tacticals and the two HQs) were deployed in the middle, with the Rhinos near the mid-line of the table for an obvious flank maneuver.  My deployment put the captain and all four Dreadnoughts in the middle of the table as far up as I could go for an immediate drive forward.  TFCs were deployed in trenches in my backfield, with the Razorbacks and their HQ cargos split, one on each side to watch the flanks or be available to drive on objectives if necessary.  The Hunter was on the side of a hill, watching over the middle of the table to contribute to anti-tank fire.  The Scouts infiltrated into a bunker complex on a hill to guard the flank that his Rhinos were deployed to strike against; they were basically a speed-bump to block easy access to my Hunter.

 

He had first turn.  Dropped the Terminators right along the back edge of my deployment zone where there were coverage gaps.  The heavy weapons took a few wounds off a Razorback, while one of my Techmarine gunners tanked the entirely of the stormbolter shots; failed only one armor save, and the FNP put paid to that one wound.  The rest of his army pressed forward, with the Rhinos attempting a flank and the Dreadnought and LRR pushing on the center of the table.  He divided his fire, scattering wounds on several different Dreadnoughts rather than focusing one down.  The Rhinos put some stormbolter rounds into the Scouts and pushed one wound through their 2+ saves.  He decided not to attempt a charge with the Terminators.

 

My turn, I pushed the Dreadnought block into the middle of the table and advanced  killed seven of the ten Terminators in my backfield with the two Thunderfires, the harness guns on one Techmarine, the plasma-Nought, a Razorback, and a Tactical Squad.  Overcharging plasma is a wonderful thing, and the FNP saved both my Sergeant and the plasma gunner from blowing up.  The rest of my fire destroyed the lead Rhino, killed all but two of its Tactical occupants, and put several wounds on the Dreadnought.  I charged the Terminators with the Tacticals but he rolled well on his saves; the Librarian couldn't make the distance.  In the morale phase, the remnant of his Tactical Squad ran off the board but the Terminators stayed put.

 

His turn two, the Terminators backed off and opened fire, wiping out the rest of the Tacticals they were engaged with.  He dismounted the models from his LRR and pushed that battlegroup forward to support his Dreadnought, while continuing to attempt a flank maneuver with the last Rhino (though he didn't dismount the squad; he should have to try to uproot the Scouts).  He poured all the rest of his fire into my Ironclad, focusing it down.  I rolled reasonably well on the FNPs, saving an extra three or four wounds.  While that didn't keep it alive through his shooting phase, it did keep it alive longer than he wanted, so he kept having to divert fire from the other Dreadnoughts and the Razorbacks to ensure that the Ironclad indeed died.  He attempted a charge with his Dreadnought onto a Razorback but failed.

 

My turn two, I pushed the Dreadnought block and the captain further up the middle, setting up a charge for two of them into the LRR and/or its contents.  Focused fire from the Razorbacks and the remaining Tactical Squad wiped out the five enemy Tacticals, and the Venerables put paid to his Dreadnought as well.  I was ready to charge and kill his Captain with the Dreadnoughts when we forced to halt and pack up.  Given the chance to play through the Assault Phase, I think I would have won.

 

 

So.  BATREP out of the way, here are the lessons I learned from this game:

 

1. Focus fire is important.  Spreading damage around on models without degrading stat lines is a waste of effort.  When it comes to heavy targets like vehicles and monster, focus your fire and kill one as quickly as you can.  Then, designate another target and rinse & repeat.  As has been the case since I first started playing, start with your anti-tank guns to peel open transports so your anti-personnel weapons can murderize the contents.

 

2. Capitalize on the FNP save's existence.  Venerable Dreadnoughts get two FNPs save -- one from their own rules, one from the Chapter Tactics.  They can even be given a third such save, a 5+, from one of the stratagems.  While the saves themselves use poor values -- 5's and 6's -- the fact that any weapon can hurt any model means that overall, Dreadnoughts will be taking more hits than they used to.  More hits means more damage, and more damage means rolling a high number of saves.  If your dice are hot, it'll keep key units alive and fighting (like it did for my plasma-carriers on the the overcharge rolls) while in a high volume of fire case, such as my Ironclad, it can keep the unit alive for longer than it ordinarily would.  The longer it's alive, the more firepower it's soaking up, which means less hitting the rest of your units.  Consider the Ironclad as a Distraction Carnifex, if you will.

 

3. Dreadnoughts love the Machine Empathy stratagem.  Ignore the moving-Heavy-weapon to-hit penalty was huge for both the assault cannon and plasma cannon Venerable Dreadnoughts, allowing me to hit on 2+ while rerolling 1's (thanks, Captain!) while advancing on the enemy.  It was especially nice with the plasma cannon, since it kept me from overheating on 2's when murderizing the enemy Terminators in my backfield.

 

4. Respect the Thunderfire Cannon.  S5 AP-1 doesn't sound like an exceeding powerful stat line, but that's when you forget to combine it with 4d3 shots.  Three TFC shots across two turns resulted in 7 shots, 8 shots, and 10 shots, and that many dice rolling into any unit, even something as hard as Terminators, will push wounds through their armor saves.  Its long range and indirect fire capability also make it easy to hide and still be effective.

 

5. Respect the plasma.  I've always relied heavily on plasma weapons; it was the only way to survive in the Marine-heavy metas I used to play in.  Now I know I played against a Marine army so this might be confirmation bias in effect, but my mass of plasma weapons were super effective.  Overcharge mode against Terminators is just as silly-effective as it looks on paper, wounding on 2+, reducing them to a 5+ save, and each failed save killing a whole model.  They're just as effective as anti-tank guns, since Rhinos and Dreadnoughts are T7, swinging your attacks to 3+ to wound instead of 4+ and again, punching multiple wounds in for every hit.  Just beware of the twin plasma gun turret on the Razorback.  You can't risk overcharging those because rather than losing a wound, they'll straight up kill the Razorback on an overheat.

 

 

So that's me after one game.  Let's hear about everyone else's early experiences!

[Shuul]

I think there is something wrong in my meta... both of presented lists are very fluffy and will die turn 1

I liked the game though

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Bull :cuss.  No one is going to kill four Dreadnoughts in one turn, especially not ones with extra saves.

[Shuul]

Oh, 6 ven.dreads (AC + twin las) with Guiliman will. (accompanied by las-razorbacks)

Or 4 stormravens with 4 purginatory squads (each squad has 4 psilancers and thats 24 shots per squad of d3 damage).

Or 8 wave serpents with aeldari missiles accompanied by 8-men squad of reapers with missiles (and exarch has missles and fires twise a turn) with shooty HQ in a bastion will kill as well.

 

during the game yesterday against the third list above I lost in first turn:
LR crusader
predator

TFC

3 razorbacks

and some tacticals

 

good for you you dont play against something like this

Edited July 31, 2017 by Shuul

[Timur]

I like your list.  I see you are into ven. dreads, and their performance was impressive. 

 

I personally am going to give the redemptors a go with way more firepower for around the same points.  I'll post and let you know how it goes. 

 

Your techmarine never got screwed with?  Did he just mosey +/- an inch behind the dread line unmolested?

 

Also, did the stalker do anything? Is it worth taking an AA platform?

 

Yeah, and I too can tell you you won't be killing 3 IH dreads in a turn w/o cheating or getting perfect dice, (like 24 6s) as I've been spamming dreads too.  In fact my 500 patrol has a contemptor that has lived through a stupid amount of dmg.  I'm talking free for all games w/ 4-5 patrol armies firing at it, and walking away with less wounds but still up, then the techmarine goes to work.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Oh, 6 ven.dreads (AC + twin las) with Guiliman will. (accompanied by las-razorbacks)

Or 4 stormravens with 4 purginatory squads (each squad has 4 psilancers and thats 24 shots per squad of d3 damage).

Or 8 wave serpents with aeldari missiles accompanied by 8-men squad of reapers with missiles (and exarch has missles and fires twise a turn) with shooty HQ in a bastion will kill as well.

 

during the game yesterday against the third list above I lost in first turn:

LR crusader

predator

TFC

3 razorbacks

and some tacticals

 

good for you you dont play against something like this

 

I was an avid tournament player prior to 7th edition ruining everything.  I've played against broken death star lists like those before, and if that many long range guns are dealing that much damage on you in your deployment zone. . . then I hate to break it to you, but one of two things is seriously wrong.  Either you need to learn to deploy your units better so they're out of LOS or at least in cover, or else you need tables with more LOS-blocking terrain.  The only way you should lose what amounts to an entire armored battlegroup to first turn shooting is because you're playing on Planet Bowling Ball.

 

 

 

I like your list.  I see you are into ven. dreads, and their performance was impressive. 

 

I personally am going to give the redemptors a go with way more firepower for around the same points.  I'll post and let you know how it goes. 

 

Your techmarine never got screwed with?  Did he just mosey +/- an inch behind the dread line unmolested?

 

Also, did the stalker do anything? Is it worth taking an AA platform?

 

Yeah, and I too can tell you you won't be killing 3 IH dreads in a turn w/o cheating or getting perfect dice, (like 24 6s) as I've been spamming dreads too.  In fact my 500 patrol has a contemptor that has lived through a stupid amount of dmg.  I'm talking free for all games w/ 4-5 patrol armies firing at it, and walking away with less wounds but still up, then the techmarine goes to work.

 

 

The Techmarine was in a Razorback.  He's not there principally as a repair-monkey (though I'm certainly willing to use him that way if needs be), but instead he's there as a weapons carrier for a Tactical Squad.  In 8th, a model -- even an infantry model -- can fire every weapon they carry (except pistols).  Which means I can fire both barrels of a combi-plas, plus the harness-flamer, plus the harness-plasma cutter.  That's four possible weapons shooting off of a single model hitting on 2s and 3s and half of it being plasma.  Combined with the two plasma weapons the squad itself is carrying, and that's a lot of fiery death coming your way.